Titan of the Dinosaurs, Elions's PK Appeal for Matthew 'Oldman' Henderson, Eli 'Stalker'

[rBST Cow]

I didn't read every single post in this down to the letter, but one thing I can see that is a problem here is the OOC aspect. There shouldn't have been any steam chats regarding the issue at all. Neither Jugger nor Kronos should have ever talked about meeting IC to discuss a specific subject. Talking over steam to ask someone to get on to speak with with regarding an issue is one thing, but to plan something in steam and then use that information ICly is metagaming and just leads to situations like this.

It was decided amongst the SA's (currently just Khub and I) that the two admins involved in the RP, Jonco and Sexy Frog would decide what was appropriate for Old Man. Its up to them to decide if any discrepancies in this RP are present and if there are truly any issues. They both decided for a PK on Old Man.

Now why didn't I mention Eli above? Because the main issue is really with Old Man, but since Eli was allegedly in the wrong place at the wrong time, he died as well and it was part of the conditions that if Old Man got PK'd, Eli would have to be as well because its only fair. Alternatively, if this appeal is accepted, both character's will be unpk'd.

Never tell your password to anyone.
5:22 PM - Oz-Dal-Cow: is old man gunna stay PKed?
5:22 PM - Sexy Frog - Occupy city: i believe so


Well there's one answer, Jonco is on snooze atm

[The Doctor, RIP Juggernaut]

Jonco told me that PKing Matt and Eli wasn't his chose?

[Airborne1st]

Jonco told me that PKing Matt and Eli wasn't his chose?

2:35 PM - Jonco: old man keeps
2:35 PM - Jonco: arguing over it
2:35 PM - Jonco: eli can go free but
2:35 PM - Airborne1st: We can't let one go free
2:35 PM - Jonco: oh
2:35 PM - Jonco: well
2:36 PM - Jonco: Old man died before and
2:36 PM - Airborne1st: those are the current conditions
2:36 PM - Jonco: I never knew that
2:36 PM - Jonco: so i didnt pk him
2:36 PM - Airborne1st: yeah he's NLR'd already
2:36 PM - Airborne1st: alright
2:36 PM - Airborne1st: its decided then

[The Doctor, RIP Juggernaut]

The only NLR I've ever done before, was the whole bunker drama that Jonco said was not a PK event to start with.
Or the moving event, but that was a massive fail on both Statua's and the OTA's fault.

[[LP]GMK-MRL]

The meeting was not planned as no specific time or agreement. It was honestly at random and I just spotted Old Man at the inn and told him about the topic at hand.

[Elions]

I cannot post them into the website as the app for the android costs money that I really do not feel like spending. And I said sexy frog can provide you with one. Hinting at it doesn't mean I said yes and we should meet. Does it? I met him yes, but the meeting topic nor the location was planned over Steam Chat. He just literally brought it up to me and in actualitly, I just shoved it off.

... The steam app is free. So is taking screenshots from any commercial cellphone. I don't see why you can't post them. Hinting at it in a heavy manner is a very common way to fool someone into something. I'd bloody know, i've had to deal with this kind of nonsense since my days as a TF2 admin.

You were killed brutally for supplies. I don't see how that would be unfair. How do I know you have supplies? Laurence ICly speculated that you did. Laurence also hates controlling people. From his obersvations of you, he could tell that you were a powerful person. Also you threatened his prized vortigaunt. You indirectly piled on reasons for your death.

The reasons for the kill aren't what we're questioning, it's the method that was used to get an open shot at these characters, which were more than questionable in more than one sense.

I really /really/ enjoyed playing my unit, Turious, Giovanni, and William Dicardi.

I'm pretty sure these characters of yours did not die in such dodgy circumstances as these, while i can nod at you enjoying playing those characters, it certainely doesn't have a say on this.

2:35 PM - Jonco: old man keeps
2:35 PM - Jonco: arguing over it
2:35 PM - Jonco: eli can go free but
2:35 PM - Airborne1st: We can't let one go free
2:35 PM - Jonco: oh
2:35 PM - Jonco: well
2:36 PM - Jonco: Old man died before and
2:36 PM - Airborne1st: those are the current conditions
2:36 PM - Jonco: I never knew that
2:36 PM - Jonco: so i didnt pk him
2:36 PM - Airborne1st: yeah he's NLR'd already
2:36 PM - Airborne1st: alright
2:36 PM - Airborne1st: its decided then

I believe, knowing that Jonco had to do with the event in general and of course the fact he was involved in the group his decision to make it a pk is... dubious, to say the least. I don't want to call out his integrity, but it certainely would have been imperative at that moment to find an admin that WASN'T involved in any way to help decide.

[The Doctor, RIP Juggernaut]

Also Kronos, you /knew/ that I didn't know you brushed it off or decided not to do it. Yet you didn't tell me or anything. And knowing the knowledge you /KNEW/ I would have followed you expecting/believing it was part of what we had talked about.

[[LP]GMK-MRL]

Also Kronos, you /knew/ that I didn't know you brushed it off or decided not to do it. Yet you didn't tell me or anything. And knowing the knowledge you /KNEW/ I would have followed you expecting/believing it was part of what we had talked about.

If that were the case, then a lot of people would be comitting metagame. I wouldn't just go up and say "I don't care about this. Its stupid." I didn't tell you just to be nice really. I didn't know what you would do really. I can't read your mind. The fact that you're assuming I knew these things is inaccurate.

[tics]

Also Kronos, you /knew/ that I didn't know you brushed it off or decided not to do it. Yet you didn't tell me or anything. And knowing the knowledge you /KNEW/ I would have followed you expecting/believing it was part of what we had talked about.

Whether or not he lied about some meeting or whatever shit, doesn't matter. By you acting upon OOC information, you metagamed. Whether or not he lied, it's still metagaming. These are the consequences. It's all rather plain and simple.

[Lone Wanderer <??"?]

Don't know why you guys are arguing this out anymore at this point. Regardless of whatever dumb thing you guys had happen over Steam chat, whoever's side is true or not, Old Man and Eli died ICly in the respective events that happened ICly. You went there, you roleplayed with them, and it obviously didn't turn out the way you intended it too. Life sucks that way. I remember with Hood I had the dumbest situation for a PK. Three guys were waiting to confirm my identity, did, and then came and got me when I went to an apartment, pulling out MP7's from duffle bags they didn't have listed in their description. Events that followed resulted in my death, and that was a sad time indeed (o7 Hood, never forget #2012). But the following events happened ICly, and the choices I made at the time were not the right ones given the issues the situation had. If there's a significant problem that's happening during the roleplay, take it up then and contact an admin. Don't let it progress all the way through and then follow through before taking it up with someone who can do something.

tl;dr: You died ICly, and the choice to wait to take action is your undoing. If you had an legitimate OOC problem with the way the RP was being conducted, you should have taken it up with someone while it was happening.

[[LP]GMK-MRL]

Also Kronos, you /knew/ that I didn't know you brushed it off or decided not to do it. Yet you didn't tell me or anything. And knowing the knowledge you /KNEW/ I would have followed you expecting/believing it was part of what we had talked about.

If that were the case, then a lot of people would be comitting metagame. I wouldn't just go up and say "I don't care about this. Its stupid." I didn't tell you just to be nice really. I didn't know what you would do really. I can't read your mind. The fact that you're assuming I knew these things is inaccurate.

And my characters have died in highly dodgy ways. If I were to put up an appeal for all of them, which I did for Aurther and he ended up getting accepted, they would've been here.

... The steam app is free. So is taking screenshots from any commercial cellphone. I don't see why you can't post them. Hinting at it in a heavy manner is a very common way to fool someone into something. I'd bloody know, i've had to deal with this kind of nonsense since my days as a TF2 admin.

The steam app is free, but the Tap to Talk app is not, in that case, I would've easily copy pasta the logs. Even so! They aren't there! The convo was apparently held by my computer and my phone must've been off, or it must've been derping. My phone is made by t-mobile who is notorious for making shitty phones.

Hinting does not mean I said yes. And how does saying "I'll see" hint at me accepting it unless you're highly confident and so sure with the assumptions produced that there will be an alliance offer, as there is no solid evidence of me accepting this agreement.. And this is an android. I literally have no idea how to take a screenshot from my phone. I don't stray that much into Technology really.

[The Doctor, RIP Juggernaut]

Also Kronos, you /knew/ that I didn't know you brushed it off or decided not to do it. Yet you didn't tell me or anything. And knowing the knowledge you /KNEW/ I would have followed you expecting/believing it was part of what we had talked about.

If that were the case, then a lot of people would be comitting metagame. I wouldn't just go up and say "I don't care about this. Its stupid." I didn't tell you just to be nice really. I didn't know what you would do really. I can't read your mind. The fact that you're assuming I knew these things is inaccurate.

Its not really assuming or that big of a leap. There hasn't really been a case like then and you could have just said "No" say "I'll think about it" is so vague that there are so many ways to perceive it. The fact that you didn't directly say "No" and said "I'll think about it" and then follow it up with this seeing how you were planning this apparently for a month and then following it up with that? You can't say that you didn't know that I would have assumed that.

The difference Lone is there are OOC reasons involved, nothing wrong IC, just OOC.
And what exactly did I argue about that made Jonco change his mind away from a TK?(When was the steam chat?) Again, he also told me that he was the one that suggested the TK, and that he had nothing to do with the PK.

The vagueness of the your reply to the alliance idea and the fact that you were planning this doesn't help your case Kronos. And can you not transfer the screenshots to a flash card/your computer with a cable?

[Statua]

I have nothing more to say. Everyone can argue but based on the evidence and what happened, I say deny.

[Elions]

So anyone can go up to someone, set up something like this in OOC to make people metagame... Then completely get away with it and have it end up in a PK? Does no one else here see the fundamental flaw of this whole thing? It's full to the brim with the possibility (As shown already) of abuse. Anyone could just go and do that to someone who's character they don't like after buttering them up a little and not have a single sanction, not even a slap on the wrist (which would be insultingly minimal for something as malicious as this)

[Statua]

Unfortunately, metagame is metagame and unless you have administrators or logs or whatever backing you up, you're on your own.