SWAT... what is the point?

[?«SG.Sup?? | Sir.Scottx125]

Ok, so SWAT is essentialy the fire fight responce unit for the police force as well as the force which can guard the mayor. HOWEVER, now that has been taken over by SS (protecting the mayor). And SWAT ushualy is never recruited any more, so police officers have to deal with raids and fire fights themselfs using pistols the majority of the time, whilst going against ak47's ect. When SWAT is then recruited during a fire fight 7/10 times the fire fight is over by the time SWAT is there, and then everyone leaves SWAT because nothing happens.

Something radical needs to be done here in order to make SWAT a perminant part of the force in order to make them moderatly interesting and active to play.

So, say if you agree or disagree below with reasons, if you agree also put some possible suggestions in order to make SWAT a perminant active part of the police force. OR suggest what should be done in the case that SWAT is unable to become a perminant part of the police force, aka giving officers more bullet protection, better weapons ect.

[Nacho Libre]

I agree with this to a point...
A agree pple  leave SWAT because it boring and a NPC for SWAT would be a good idea
And its nice to have swat instead of waiting for mayor to promote chief  the chief to swat to get to the fight.
And what is suppost to happen is cops call in swat and wait for swat to show up before a raid.
And if we did a NPC we would have set a hour limit or VIP or GM or something that way newbies don't get on and start a rdm spree

[[S-ZPS] Sherman]

Not at all.....

I am chief quite often and I promote and demote SWAT all the time. The point of SWAT is to have armored units with heavy weapons to raid a place which could cost lives. I try to organize them and when we raid I try to stay quiet until we move in all together. SWAT is a necessity for good raids with the least amount of lives lost. Once the raid is over I demote every SWAT except for one who volunteers to stay, and I tell the others to go to the NPC again and become SWAT.
However that does waste money so I am in favor of SWAT being cheaper to promote.
BUT HELL NO to a SWAT NPC. If there is one thing that frustrates me it is SWAT running around like they are cops, which they do anyway. If anything should happen to increase the number of SWAT around the Mayor should be able to promote them as well. And then there would be limits to the number which would just make the raids an ultimate failure. I love the way I RP raids. Get proof, keep radio on a down low, tell SWAT the plan and get ready to move in lightning fast and clear it out as quickly and safely as possible. We don't need random people running around just destroying RP because there they can.
The system we have now is beautiful. For there to be SWAT the mayor has to appoint someone they like to be chief and that chief promotes people they like and trust will do their job.

Also they aren't supposed to be "interesting to play," tell me now. In real life do you see SWAT officers on duty walking around or acting as police? No. And along with that what could they possibly do? Nothing. They are there for a certain job and once it is over they go back to being a cop to do the less intense stuff because there is nothing like a raid going on. When there is another raid, SWAT are promoted again.

Reason I am so harsh is because I really REALLY dislike this idea, it would just make being chief/cop/swat a bad job. Which I love to do 
Don't want my game ruined haha.

-Support




FYI, SS don't really replace SWAT. SWAT aren't supposed to protect the mayor unless the mayor is under attack. And in that case the SS are with the mayor and raiders are outside the door trying to get in, SWAT come from behind with their armor like SS has to clear it out. They are both necessary for the Mayor's protection. But if he isn't under attack, its not their job to be extra SS.

[Statua]

TL;DR Sherman

SWAT are used for special situations like bomb threats, hostage situations, etc. SS are to protect the mayor. Police are to protect the public. And SWAT are to eliminate threats. That should and WILL never change.

[Lone Wanderer <??"?]

What Statua said. SWAT and Police forces are not the same, and have different jobs. If a heavy shoot out were to occur somewhere in a city, the police would more than likely respond, secure the area, get the public away, and hold their positions. SWAT, on the other hand, would be called in, and then take offensive action against the threat. Police officers enforce the laws of the city/state/country, whereas SWAT is used to deal with high priority situations. They don't really have a job in reality unless something bad goes down. Being a chief quite often, I also promote/demote SWAT, mainly based off the overall state of the city. I'd just like to say, that with OCRP being the way it is, SWAT are useful at least every hour or so, whether it's a raid on the mayor, suspects aggresively resisting arrests or holding down homes, hostage situations, raids where citizens are killing eachother. Needless to say, SWAT have things to do. Also, you could do some drills. Hmm, what a good idea....

[?«SG.Sup?? | Sir.Scottx125]

Yes but the problem is NOBODY WANTS TO BE SWAT... Because how often do these events occour? Once every 2-4 hours? Who is gonna sit and wait for an event like that to turn up? And by the time an event like that does come around police officers try and fight in a heavy fire fight and then theres no officers to promote to SWAT, as well as by the time someone does become SWAT the fire fight is pretty much over. And then they are back to waiting for 30 mins before they get bored they return to becoming a police officer.
Post Auto-Merged: May 13, 2013, 08:51:57 AM

Not at all.....

I am chief quite often and I promote and demote SWAT all the time. The point of SWAT is to have armored units with heavy weapons to raid a place which could cost lives. I try to organize them and when we raid I try to stay quiet until we move in all together. SWAT is a necessity for good raids with the least amount of lives lost. Once the raid is over I demote every SWAT except for one who volunteers to stay, and I tell the others to go to the NPC again and become SWAT.
However that does waste money so I am in favor of SWAT being cheaper to promote.
BUT HELL NO to a SWAT NPC. If there is one thing that frustrates me it is SWAT running around like they are cops, which they do anyway. If anything should happen to increase the number of SWAT around the Mayor should be able to promote them as well. And then there would be limits to the number which would just make the raids an ultimate failure. I love the way I RP raids. Get proof, keep radio on a down low, tell SWAT the plan and get ready to move in lightning fast and clear it out as quickly and safely as possible. We don't need random people running around just destroying RP because there they can.
The system we have now is beautiful. For there to be SWAT the mayor has to appoint someone they like to be chief and that chief promotes people they like and trust will do their job.

Also they aren't supposed to be "interesting to play," tell me now. In real life do you see SWAT officers on duty walking around or acting as police? No. And along with that what could they possibly do? Nothing. They are there for a certain job and once it is over they go back to being a cop to do the less intense stuff because there is nothing like a raid going on. When there is another raid, SWAT are promoted again.

Reason I am so harsh is because I really REALLY dislike this idea, it would just make being chief/cop/swat a bad job. Which I love to do 
Don't want my game ruined haha.

-Support

This is NOT real life, this is OCRP 2. This is about making the gamemode fun and accessable to play for the MAJORITY of the community, not just for one person.

And in that case then why dont we just ban police officers from getting enguaged in any serious fire fight with weapons greater than a shotgun? Because then it would give SWAT a function and prevent the police force dying all at once.




FYI, SS don't really replace SWAT. SWAT aren't supposed to protect the mayor unless the mayor is under attack. And in that case the SS are with the mayor and raiders are outside the door trying to get in, SWAT come from behind with their armor like SS has to clear it out. They are both necessary for the Mayor's protection. But if he isn't under attack, its not their job to be extra SS.

[[S-ZPS] Sherman]

TL;DR Sherman

SWAT are used for special situations like bomb threats, hostage situations, etc. SS are to protect the mayor. Police are to protect the public. And SWAT are to eliminate threats. That should and WILL never change.

Agreed. What we have now is great and good for RP. I do not want to see that change.

[DrVengeance]

Simple solution; passive RP.

You go to a base, or the nexus, you walk around doing passive, until you're deployed.

If anything you can say the same about firefighters, secret service as well as paramedics. They all have to do nothing until the time arises when they're called out — granted secret service are a little more active, but when the mayor sits in his office all day, you have to passive until something happens.

Don't like passive but like action? Don't roll SWAT, stay as police.

[TheTemplar]

Simple solution; passive RP.

You go to a base, or the nexus, you walk around doing passive, until you're deployed.

If anything you can say the same about firefighters, secret service as well as paramedics. They all have to do nothing until the time arises when they're called out — granted secret service are a little more active, but when the mayor sits in his office all day, you have to passive until something happens.

Don't like passive but like action? Don't roll SWAT, stay as police.

Completely agree. I do passive all the time as a firefighter. Paramedics can Atleast make house calls just to check up on people. But like Dr said if you can't stand being SWAT and taking the chance of not having anything to do well choose another job.

[[S-ZPS] Sherman]

Simple solution; passive RP.

You go to a base, or the nexus, you walk around doing passive, until you're deployed.

If anything you can say the same about firefighters, secret service as well as paramedics. They all have to do nothing until the time arises when they're called out — granted secret service are a little more active, but when the mayor sits in his office all day, you have to passive until something happens.

Don't like passive but like action? Don't roll SWAT, stay as police.

Completely agree. I do passive all the time as a firefighter. Paramedics can Atleast make house calls just to check up on people. But like Dr said if you can't stand being SWAT and taking the chance of not having anything to do well choose another job.

Yup, if anyone has played a TacoScript style server (FalloutRPs, SSTRP, TermintorRP) they know its not all about action, more about developing your character and playing passive with others.

[?«SG.Sup?? | Sir.Scottx125]

Simple solution; passive RP.

You go to a base, or the nexus, you walk around doing passive, until you're deployed.

If anything you can say the same about firefighters, secret service as well as paramedics. They all have to do nothing until the time arises when they're called out — granted secret service are a little more active, but when the mayor sits in his office all day, you have to passive until something happens.

Don't like passive but like action? Don't roll SWAT, stay as police.

Completely agree. I do passive all the time as a firefighter. Paramedics can Atleast make house calls just to check up on people. But like Dr said if you can't stand being SWAT and taking the chance of not having anything to do well choose another job.

We did do that, SWAT hired a base and set up shop there, we stood watch for nearly 2 hours of passive rp, but theres only so far you can go before it gets tedious and frustrating. Passive rp should NOT make up the majority of time as a class. So the SWAT either 1 need to become a more active and interesting job role, or 2 need to be more accessable and faster to appoint in the case of a fire fight, whilst also implementing the rule that officers are not allowed to get involved in serious fire fights WITHOUT SWAT support.

[[S-ZPS] Sherman]

If you cannot passive RP, you cannot RP in general. I have been playing gmod for almost five years. Over 8000 hours on it and most of that was role playing and it is a fact that passive RP is what really tests people. Role playing is not meant to be about action but developing your character. Just because you cannot do it doesn't mean others need to change. And no one is forcing you to be SWAT, you can quit any time you want.

Also, your NOT supposed to but a warehouse outside the city or anything like that. Its not government property where SWAT would be. You are supposed to stay at the Nexus, and if you want an officer the third floor of the Nexus has that. Do you see government officials buying houses and playing around in there waiting for a call? No. And I know what you are talking about, the warehouse. Anything you purchase someone can say counts as a house, and that is basically what you guys were doing.

Again, RP isn't about action, if you cannot passive go play CSS, TF2 Deathmatch or something that does.

[?«SG.Sup?? | Sir.Scottx125]

If you cannot passive RP, you cannot RP in general. I have been playing gmod for almost five years. Over 8000 hours on it and most of that was role playing and it is a fact that passive RP is what really tests people. Role playing is not meant to be about action but developing your character. Just because you cannot do it doesn't mean others need to change. And no one is forcing you to be SWAT, you can quit any time you want.

Also, your NOT supposed to but a warehouse outside the city or anything like that. Its not government property where SWAT would be. You are supposed to stay at the Nexus, and if you want an officer the third floor of the Nexus has that. Do you see government officials buying houses and playing around in there waiting for a call? No. And I know what you are talking about, the warehouse. Anything you purchase someone can say counts as a house, and that is basically what you guys were doing.

Again, RP isn't about action, if you cannot passive go play CSS, TF2 Deathmatch or something that does.

Tell that to the admin who was also SWAT. As well as that, i can play passive rp all i said was that it was boring and frustrating, but lets see how long you would last sitting in a warehouse as a SWAT officer without calls for 2 hours.

[DrVengeance]

If you cannot passive RP, you cannot RP in general. I have been playing gmod for almost five years. Over 8000 hours on it and most of that was role playing and it is a fact that passive RP is what really tests people. Role playing is not meant to be about action but developing your character. Just because you cannot do it doesn't mean others need to change. And no one is forcing you to be SWAT, you can quit any time you want.

Also, your NOT supposed to but a warehouse outside the city or anything like that. Its not government property where SWAT would be. You are supposed to stay at the Nexus, and if you want an officer the third floor of the Nexus has that. Do you see government officials buying houses and playing around in there waiting for a call? No. And I know what you are talking about, the warehouse. Anything you purchase someone can say counts as a house, and that is basically what you guys were doing.

Again, RP isn't about action, if you cannot passive go play CSS, TF2 Deathmatch or something that does.

Actually I've found that buying the warehouse just outside of town is better than the nexus; it can be played down as a government building for rapid deployment. As it's in the middle of the map, it is the most efficient place for you to be stationed.

And the ability to passive is paramount to great RP. If you rely 100% on active events i.e. raids, your fun will quickly diminish. But SWAT as a job/class is one of those things, which if you don't like it, you don't become it. It's an option.

[Infamous Simmons]

If you don't like general passive RP, encourage the mayor to create some as surely they too get bored after a while sitting in an office.
Personally, some people get annoyed when I install a totalitarian government as mayor, but I do such to get everyone involved.

Citizens are forced to RP when it comes to Police officers and trying to overcome the mayor.
Police officers are forced to engage with everyone they see.
Riots occur which result in S.W.A.T. and police deployment.
Secret Service must be more on alert for assassination attempts.
Firefighters are more likely to be deployed for car-bombs and fires.
Paramedics are more likely to be deployed for injuries.
Dispatchers have a hell of a time coordinating the government officials.
Tow truck drivers are used more due to stricter laws on parking and speeding.
Buses are used more due to the impounding of vehicles and the need for criminals to keep on the move.
(Yes I do understand the last two situations are less likely, but still possibilities.)

It's not S.W.A.T. that is the problem. It's the mayor for not engaging everyone in events (whether specifically an event such as a parade, or as a government as previously mentioned). That is your problem.