The /roll Debate

[GeneralTrivium]

Yep, time to bring up something to have a good discussion about. No, i'm not suggesting it's removed, I just want to explore the pros and cons of this system.

Guess i'll open with how /roll is used.

The most times people use /roll is when RPing a fight. One person will attempt a move upon another and they will both use /roll to determine the outcome of the action. If the person attacking rolls a higher number than the defender, then the attacker's move is completed. If the defender rolls higher than the attacker, then the attacker's move fails, and the defender can block/counter, whatever. Repeat this process until someone "wins".

Some may argue that it gives everyone a fair chance to "win" in a fight, and helps prevent powergaming, because it establishes a proper system to go by.

However, /roll does not take into effect any physical or environmental characteristics. With this system, it is possible for a malnourished hobo to completely destroy a commander. Which is ridiculous, the commander would win hands down no matter how lucky the hobo was feeling that day.

/roll doesn't take into account the element of surprise either. For instance, you notice two people fighting, and one has the other pinned against a wall and decide to intervene. In real life, the attacker wouldn't notice you are there, as they are too busy beating up the guy against the wall. But with the roll system, they can magically grow eyes into the back of their head and suddenly stop what they're doing, dodge your attack and proceed to kick both your and the other guy's ass, simply because he gets lucky rolls.

Well, what's the alternative? You may ask.

Before /roll was implemented into RP scripts, RPers would operate with a mutual understanding of each other's characters' ability of fighting. For instance, the 6"4 heavy set knuckle head would obviously outmatch a 5"2 lightweight dirty faced hobo. And this would be assumed by both unless there are special circumstances. (E.g. The hobo isn't actually a hobo and is just fronting as one, and is actually stronger than he looks) So the attempts system would be used without /roll, and both characters would receive hits at their own discretion. Because RP isn't about winning every fight, it's about RP. Simple as.

This way of doing things requires trust, however. If one of them were so inclined, they could simply powergame and land all of their hits, and dodge all attacks. Going back to the hobo vs. commander scenario. You would think "Well, the commander would NEVER be hit by a hobo unless they were surprised." It wouldn't matter if the commander was hit or not, they wear heavy amounts of armour and a mask. The hobo would break his hand if he managed to land anything, and the commander would hardly even feel it before most likely snapping the hobo's neck.

So there you have it.

Discuss.

[chunkeymonkey79]

I hate rollplayers. A malnourished, weak citizen cannot /roll to beat that massive Overwatch beating you with his Pulse-rifle.

[Bromine]

/roll is awesome for passive, like, /me attempts to zip his jacket up slowly. /me rolls a lower number /it rolls a higher number. /me punches himself in the face when the zipper gives.

[JoshB]

The S2M rules are pretty dumbass and as bad as using /roll unmodified to do it.
/roll could be tailored with modifiers (IE: +10) to be an actual realistic way of RPing gunfire.
In hand to hand, there is always something that would happen in real life. If someone swings an SMG at the back of your head, from behind, you wont see them and you'll get knocked out. If a citizen swings a punch at you, you would (depending on what you /me) most likely try to block it with your hand, which would stop it, because citizens are malnourished. You just have to think logically.

[GeneralTrivium]

I have a lot to say about S2M/S2K but that's for another thread really. This is about /roll.

[YankeeSamurai]

I have a lot to say about S2M/S2K but that's for another thread really. This is about /roll.

Please do. The server's s2m/ s2k rules are in need of tweaking; your opinion and input would certainly be considered.

[GeneralTrivium]

Very well, I shall make a new thread on the topic when I feel like a typing frenzy.

[[FPSN]Bokslag]

/roll... It is... well, in some cases it can be usefull, such as gambling. But for fights I don't see how it can work.. No matter what you do though, there will always be that hobo who thinks that the DvL should PTL, and get knocked out by a punch to the face... /roll is bad. I do not like it. That is all.

[Statua]

Rolling simply cannot replace the decision making center of the human brain. The outocme of say a fistfight relies on ones strength, endurance, stamina, co-ordination, and mental state..

Strength: Simple, stronger person gets advantage

Endurance: Who ever can use their strength for a long period of time gets the advantage but only in the long run.

Stamina: Whoever is awake and has more energy can probably think straighter and have the will to fight as well as the strength and endurance.

Co-ordination: Staying up without tripping or loosing balance is key to winning a fight.

Mental State: If you are afraid, don't feel rightabout it, or are nervous, it could hinder your ability to fight.


Rolling removes those factors causing an unrealistic outcome.

[Wish]

I am a bit of a Dungeons and Dragons player. I think if we used a D20 system (20 sided dice) for stuff instead of a D100 and use modifiers it would help things out.

Like say a CP gets a +5 or so on a dice roll for attacks like punching and for defense, +10 for defense checks if they have armor on and such. Also factor in negative modifiers like -4 on defense if caught from behind or horde bonuses, like a group of citizens attacking 1 CP would give like a +2 per each person making attacks on the 1 CP and such.

I don't know the limitations of the game mode but maybe even the character stats like strength and endurance and such could actually determine positive or negative modifiers on rolls automatically?

Damn I wish I could code this kind of stuff... but even without modifiers, I think a smalled numbered dice would help even things up a lot. I think using a 10 or 20 sided dice would be best for things like combat.

[GeneralTrivium]

You are approached by a citizen clad in blue overalls and the default physdesc. They /yell "WANNA CYBER?". What do you do nobel traveller?

In all seriousness, this isn't dungeons and dragons, and scripting an entire roll system to accommodate such features is rather dumb. If stats were to actually come into effect, this would simply encourage stat farming. So a hobo could stat farm himself so much that he's on an even level with a commander. Not realistic.

And if stats aren't involved, all citizens would be even, which is not realistic either. Martial arts trained citizen vs. non-martial arts trained citizen is not an even match.

[Wish]

They don't need to be. My point is that a D20 would be much better suited for HL2RP than a D100.

Modifiers could be used to keep things slightly more realistic. like if attacking a CP while you are unarmed and unarmored, you would have to overcome the CP's armor and if he has is stunstick or another weapon out, his attack modifier on top of him just being superior to you in most stats.

But still, even without any modifiers, a D20 would close the gap really well and make outcomes not so random.

[GeneralTrivium]

A random number between 0 and 20 is still as random as a random number between 0 to 100. So it doesn't really resolve the issue.

[Penguin]

A random number between 0 and 20 is still as random as a random number between 0 to 100. So it doesn't really resolve the issue.

It is most definitely not the same say if a citizen had a higher roll than a CP the CP's +** number could actually let the cp win instead of it being 8-76 citizen wins.

[GeneralTrivium]

Most fist-fights are between citizens. And citizens don't have any special +## that can be identified by anything other than stats. Which as I said, encourages stat farming.