A solid ban time format

[{DG} SW33TJ3ZUZ]

Hi, I would like to suggest a ban time sort of thing so that you are not getting banned for a too little or too long of a time. This should be decided amongst  the CG Team. A good example of this can be found here: http://modifiedgaming.net/forum/showthread.php?4531-Administration-Ban-Times-Required

[Teitoku Ippan]

the admin team is not made up of 12 year olds with autism unlike most gmod communities so we can work out our own ban times based on multiple variables etc, dont need a ban time list

also if that is the same Purple that used to be at CG then gg lol

[wakeboarderCWB]

A lot of those ban lengths are way too low. The problem with this is the fact that punishments are based on the severity of the offence broken. One RDM may be more severe than the other, thus earning a day ban rather than a 12 hour ban. All bans are usually pretty similar, however it is up to the admin to determine the severity of the ban.

[{DG} SW33TJ3ZUZ]

Ippan, I believe his is, and Wake, that's why I said that it should be decided by the CG team, not that EXACT table. How can one RDM be more severe? Do you have to kill him slower, faster? I don't follow.

[wakeboarderCWB]

The context of it. Was it during a RP situation and someone wasn't killed properly? Or was it someone just walking up in the middle of Red Harbor and killing someone? There is a general theme we follow with ban times. It's not defined anywhere, however we all base our bans pretty much around the same lengths.

[Nicknero]

Like Wake said, ban times aren't always exactly the same and do variate based on many factors that apply on each situation which is different.

9 out of 10 times bans are with reasonable lengths that any admin places. And if this isn't the case, ban appeals are exactly what they are there for. If you or anyone else disagrees with their ban length, they can make a ban appeal and the situation will be looked over by multiple admins to make absolutely sure the right action is taken upon the situation.

That is how we work for over 3 years now, and it worked perfectly fine all this time. So why should we change our system?

[{DG} SW33TJ3ZUZ]

So here is my situation. I will add a video so you get the picture.  Skip to the 30 second mark if you are impatient. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFecWJqJF_M So let's say that Tyler getting mugged is like that kid getting knifed. He cries about it, and, I get banned. For a week. 3 kills, and 2 boat hits because of my bad render and he sitting infront of BH. So, I go to post an appeal. It gets shot down by Ippan before anyone else can read it. Deth speaks with Alaskan, and gets it lowered to three days. However, Nick and Abbott decide to fuck around with it and raise it back to 5 days. So now I am stuck here, with a three day ban and no appeal to make.

[Teitoku Ippan]

So here is my situation. I will add a video so you get the picture.  Skip to the 30 second mark if you are impatient. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFecWJqJF_M So let's say that Tyler getting mugged is like that kid getting knifed. He cries about it, and, I get banned. For a week. 3 kills, and 2 boat hits because of my bad render and he sitting infront of BH. So, I go to post an appeal. It gets shot down by Ippan before anyone else can read it. Deth speaks with Alaskan, and gets it lowered to three days. However, Nick and Abbott decide to fuck around with it and raise it back to 5 days. So now I am stuck here, with a three day ban and no appeal to make.

basically the only reason youve made this thread is because of your ban

however that video was funny to watch

edit: btw i did talk to alaskan about it afterwards and ye it was decided to stay at 5 days

[Statua]

As administrators, we are trusted with the ability to determine ban times based on our own judgement. We determine the length of the ban not based on static numbers but based on hundreds of variables in the situation which can only be computed with the human brain. Anything and everything that happens in the situation from the amount of damage done to the way the player simply interacts with the other player or the admin are the variables used.

Example: 2 players break the rule of FearRP when getting mugged. Both players are on their platforms. Both players draw a gun on the mugger who is typing and kill him.

However, the first player admits he has done wrong. Straight up understands that he broke the rule fully knowing about it and accepts punishment. He'll get maybe a 12 hour ban and be told to review the rules.

The second player starts whining and making up excuses. He spends a good 20 minutes trying to get out of a ban, lies about things and proved wrong thanks to the logs, and finally in the gives up and accepts defeat in the end. He receives a 2 day ban for that.

What makes these 2 situations different? The more shit you disturb the harder you get banned.

[{DG} SW33TJ3ZUZ]

Abbott, I made this thread for other people. And Statua, It wasn't a rule unless it falls under common sense, which IMHO it didn't and that's why is a rule now. Another thing wrong with that is that most admins wouldn't even speak with those two without pictures or video. Now, I disturbed nothing, yet I receive a one week ban. Now, not to be VIP elitism, but I gave Alaskan probably 50+ dollars of free money, and he bans me for a damn week for 3 " RDMs ". I know I shouldn't be speaking of my ban here, but I have nowhere else considering that Abbott shot down my BA for no other reason that nothing.

[Statua]

I'm sorry, I was replying in regards to the suggestion. I don't care about your ban as I am not involved in it, unless there's an issue with it which should be handled in a ban appeal. Not here. If you continue to discuss YOUR ban specifically, this thread will be locked. If you wish to discuss what you posted in the OP, then do so.

[{DG} SW33TJ3ZUZ]

I thought you were speaking of my ban, and I was just replying. I don't see why this is a bad idea, it gives a surefire time, that way if people see this, they will know that it is a 1 day ban for RDM, making them not want to RDM.

[Teitoku Ippan]

as i said in quite a shitty way, we are capable of using different variables and such to issue a ban with an appropriate length of time. sometimes ban lengths will even get discussed by multiple admins to come to a conclusion on what seems the most appropriate. we have no need for a ban time list and have never needed one in the past

[Statua]

Why is this a bad idea? This isn't how justice works. Someone who causes more shit deserves a harder ban then someone who cooperates and makes things easier.

[Scratchie]

Think of it like this:

Situation 1:
- Red Harbor, 03:55
- Player Bob heads up the lighthouse to snipe the mayor
- Player Bob has the reason of the mayor constantly dogging him and having the coast guard follow him in the ocean. Legitimate reason.
- Player Bob tried talking to the mayor about it, to no avail.
- By the time Player Bob gets in place and lines up his shot it is now 04:12 ingame, outside crime hours.
- Player Bob doesn't notice, shoots the mayor.
- Admin Joe notices this, thinks it's RDM.

Now, the three ways this could go:

Way 1:
- Admin Joe talks to Player Bob.
- Player Bob explains the situation and how he didn't notice the time.
- Admin Joe either lets it go or gives a light warning to watch the time.

Way 2:
- Admin Joe talks to Player Bob.
- Player Bob becomes confrontational and doesn't explain the situation. Constantly says that he had reason but wouldn't give it and thinks that Admin Joe is being a bitch so he bitches and moans.
- Admin Joe tries to get the information from Player Bob for ~5 minutes.
- Admin Joe bans Player Bob because he could not get Player Bob to give the information.
- Player Bob gets banned for a day.

Way 3:
- Admin Joe is busy with other situations but cannot let it go.
- Admin Joe decides to ban him for 12 hours.
- Player Bob gets banned for 12 hours with reason "RDM, Please visit the forums to appeal if there was reason."


Situation 2:
- Red Harbor, 15:30
- Player Bob hates Player Joe. Player Joe is the Mayor.
- Player Bob walks up to Player Joe and pulls an AK out of his ass and mows him down.
- Admin Jane sees this.

Way 1:
- Admin Jane talks to Player Bob
- Player Bob tells Admin Jane he hates Player Joe and thats why he killed him.
- Admin Jane tells Player Bob to avoid that in the future and issues a 12 hour ban and a strict warning to the future.
- Admin Jane adds Player Bob to a list for admins to watch for in the future for that situation.

Way 2:
- Admin Jane talks to Player Bob.
- Player Bob bitches and moans, giving no information.
- Player Bob tries to shoot Admin Jane, Admin Jane has God Mode on.
- Player Bob gets banned for 2 days for RDM, Attempted RDM, and general stupidity.

Way 3:
- Admin Jane has noticed Player Bob in the server many times, he should know the rules.
- Admin Jane bans Player Bob for a day.

Way 4:
- Admin Jane is busy, but noticed it happen.
- Admin Jane doesn't know how long Player Bob has been in the comminity
- Admin Jane forces the rules on Player Bob
- Player Bob comes out of the rules and moves around
- Admin Jane bans Player Bob for 12 hours for "RDM. Please review the rules on the forums."


Situation 3:
- Player Bob gets back from his ban from Situation 2 Way 1.
- Player Bob is mad at Player Joe, who is on the server, thinking he got him banned.
- Admin Bill noticed the note on the admin watchlist and has it in his mind.
- Player Bob kills Player Joe

Way 1:
- Admin Bill bans Player Bob for 2 days for "RDM. Was warned and just came off a ban for RDM"

Way 2:
- Admin Bill talks to Player Bob.
- Player Bob is still mad so is bitching and moaning and tries to kill Admin Bill.
- Admin Bill dies because he forgot to godmode
- Admin Bill bans Player Bob for a week for "RDMx2, RDMing an admin while discussing rules being broken, Previously warned about RDM (just got off ban for RDM)"

Way 3:
- Player Bob leaves the server
- Admin Bill bans Player Bob for a week for "RDM after getting off ban for RDM, disconnecting to avoid ban"

Way 4:
- Admin Bill talks to Player Bob
- Player Bob agrees he did wrong
- Admin Bill bans Player Bob for a day with a warning if its done again it will be a week minimum
- Admin Bill makes note of that in the admin watchilist


In each of the different ways a situation is handled, the outcome is based on the interaction with the player or various facts/information known to the admin (such as playtime, knowledge of the rules, etc)