Steven 'Candyman' Rhodes's PK appeal

[Sectus]

Steam Name: Sectus
Steam ID:  STEAM_0:1:37175424
Character Name: Steven 'Candyman' Rhodes
Admin who issued PK: Kom'rk
Reason for Un-PK: Character was PK'd on the grounds that a scanner had taken a picture of him from a distance away. Despite the CCA having the incorrect physical description of Candyman written, OTA knew his location and was dispatched to the area to take him out. OTA then used explosives to destroy an entire building despite the risk it would have to public safety. Further reasons this appeal is being put forward have been discussed and debated previously.

[Orange - Cisco Certified]

I shall post all of my arguments here, even though I really shouldn't considering the SAs that support this appeal are more than those who are against it.

Spoiler for Hiden:

I have an issue with this PK. Not because I'm friends with Sectus or I want Candyman for ZEALOT. But because- in my opinion, this situation was meta'd.

I'll begin by what I'm told. I was told by Kom that the pictures were taken of Candyman, fair enough. Although. How would they know it's him? We don't have a clear description of him. This is Candyman's description: Black,Blue Clothes,Brown boots, Black hair.

I assume the scanner's camera alerts the central command when it's found someone of either matching description to something in the BOL list or if it's found someone with a similar face- assuming we already have a face-scan. Do you know how many hundreds upon thousands of African Americans would have a similar description to that? Black. Blue Clothes, Brown boots. Black Hair. You have got to be fucking me.

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10:32 PM - Kom'??: Candyman is  BOL, his description and such is common knowledge, that's how we confirmed it was him.

By the way, it isn't common knowledge. Just because someone is infamous- it doesn't mean their face is known. In this case, the CCA did not know what Candyman looked like.

Everyone who is black in City 45 matches that description. But- lets assume the scanner somehow figured out what he would look like. Even then, it's incorrect. Candyman is white. Therefore, the description labeled is mis-leading and a scanner- even if operated by a person, would not find Candyman because our known description is off.

 So- they apparently took a picture from a far distance. Fair enough, combine tech is unknown. But the interesting part is how they OOCly knew to take a picture of him.

10:31 PM - Kom'??: And the pictures?
10:31 PM - Kom'??: Scanners have the ability to see the name of whoever they are following
10:32 PM - Kom'??: Its not metagaming, its how hl2rp is coded
10:32 PM - Orange: That's metagaming.

RTLK knew who to take pictures of because of the alt-follow function. Knowing it was him OOCly was also meta'd.

Nearly every aspect of this PK was meta'd. Mostly on RTLK's end. There was nothing that would lead him to take pictures of that man and ID him as Candyman. Absolutely nothing. As for the actual raid, I'll admit that- had the rest not been meta'd, they would've found him eventually considering how small P3 is.

Spoiler for Hiden:

How in the holy hell would a scanner 10-15 feet above whoever they're trying to snap a picture of manage to get a clear shot of the fingerprints? If you look at your fingerprints right now from head height to keyboard, you can't see them. Yes, we had fingerprints. But it's not like candyman was throwing his hands up and allowing the scanner to observe them.

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I did not know at all that Candyman was there until I found out when finding out who I took pictures of.

How did you know it was him? Because that sentence doesn't make sense. I made it clear that due to the CCA's limited information on candyman, there was nothing that would lead you to ID him unless he raised his hands and allowed you to take a pretty picture of his fingerprints.

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I saw a group of citizens near the warehouse and (as explained above) the scanner was able to recognize Candyman as a Priority One BOL after receiving the information earlier.

Again, how? You cannot simply know someone is a BOL just because they're a high priority.

[ReDrUm?´´?´°]

I know I'm not supposed to post here and all, but I need to make this clear.

How in the holy hell would a scanner 10-15 feet above whoever they're trying to snap a picture of manage to get a clear shot of the fingerprints? If you look at your fingerprints right now from head height to keyboard, you can't see them. Yes, we had fingerprints. But it's not like candyman was throwing his hands up and allowing the scanner to observe them.

When I made the finger print point on the other thread, I wasn't saying that the scanner took a picture of his fingers and compared them to fingerprints. What I was saying that the fact that the CCA has a copy of his fingerprints shows that he has in fact been processed by the CCA (Like all citizens are when they are placed in cities), which I would assume means a scanner could figure out who they are.

I wasn't in charge of forensics, or even working on that case when it happened, so I can't tell you much about the case; however, I noticed it in our database, and I figured that it made sense.

[Mr.Qman]

The fact that two, or three people agree'd that the situation was under role played and it was almost about to be accepted by purple, but it just had the wrong format. Should be enough, you can just read the last denied thread and see for yourself.

[ReDrUm?´´?´°]

The fact that two, or three people agree'd that the situation was under role played and it was almost about to be accepted by purple, but it just had the wrong format. Should be enough, you can just read the last denied thread and see for yourself.

Wasn't exactly posting to support or not to support. I just wanted to clear up a misconception.

[raged]

By running ZEALOT I have a very clear understanding of what can be appropriate IC with hunting down targets and what crosses the line. I know that if I was to pull what happened then it wouldn't have been acceptable from me or my squad at all. I'd rather wait for Kronic to come back from his holiday and review this thread as well with the other (because of the arguments from both sides) to come to a conclusion on the appeals. However, personally I am all for the PK to be revoked.

If this was to be passed then it would establish a precedent for all future situations which would virtually allow me and other units to basically metagame wanted targets simply by getting a copy of their fingerprints - and ultimately that would create more drama with 'resistance opposition' than what there already is.

[ReDrUm?´´?´°]

If this was to be passed then it would establish a precedent for all future situations which would virtually allow me and other units to basically metagame wanted targets simply by getting a copy of their fingerprints - and ultimately that would create more drama with 'resistance opposition' than what there already is.

What? When did anyone say that getting a copy of their fingerprints gives you the right to "basically metagame"? Everyone is taking what I said and twisting it. It isn't a hard concept. We have a copy of the Candyman's fingerprints, proving that he's been processed by the combine before. People on the other thread said that the scanner wouldn't be able to positively identify him, which is why I brought up this point. The way I see it, if you've been processed before by the combine (Like all citizens are when they are put into cities), then a scanner could recognize you unless you've somehow reconstructed your face.

[[LP]GMK-MRL]

If this was to be passed then it would establish a precedent for all future situations which would virtually allow me and other units to basically metagame wanted targets simply by getting a copy of their fingerprints - and ultimately that would create more drama with 'resistance opposition' than what there already is.

What? When did anyone say that getting a copy of their fingerprints gives you the right to "basically metagame"? Everyone is taking what I said and twisting it. It isn't a hard concept. We have a copy of the Candyman's fingerprints, proving that he's been processed by the combine before. People on the other thread said that the scanner wouldn't be able to positively identify him, which is why I brought up this point. The way I see it, if you've been processed before by the combine (Like all citizens are when they are put into cities), then a scanner could recognize you unless you've somehow reconstructed your face.

You're basically saying the scanner is a flying super computer....

[ReDrUm?´´?´°]

If this was to be passed then it would establish a precedent for all future situations which would virtually allow me and other units to basically metagame wanted targets simply by getting a copy of their fingerprints - and ultimately that would create more drama with 'resistance opposition' than what there already is.

What? When did anyone say that getting a copy of their fingerprints gives you the right to "basically metagame"? Everyone is taking what I said and twisting it. It isn't a hard concept. We have a copy of the Candyman's fingerprints, proving that he's been processed by the combine before. People on the other thread said that the scanner wouldn't be able to positively identify him, which is why I brought up this point. The way I see it, if you've been processed before by the combine (Like all citizens are when they are put into cities), then a scanner could recognize you unless you've somehow reconstructed your face.

You're basically saying the scanner is a flying super computer....

Please explain how I said this in any way, shape, or form. I'm saying that scanners can do what they're supposed to do. It's not my fault if you don't like it.

[Globey]

All citizens are processed unless otherwise authorized. Scanners can ID a citizen within seconds based upon dozens of body proportions. Technology similar to this already exists in prototype military unmanned base defense devices.
Completly ignore the fingerprint thing - He said it to make a point, but few people seem to understand it.

[Orange - Cisco Certified]

All citizens are processed unless otherwise authorized. Scanners can ID a citizen within seconds based upon dozens of body proportions. Technology similar to this already exists in prototype military unmanned base defense devices.
Completly ignore the fingerprint thing - He said it to make a point, but few people seem to understand it.

That would give us even more freedom to meta if we were trying to find an anti-citizen. We wouldn't even need to get their fingerprints, one look at you with a single picture from any angle and we know everything about you. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me. Although, I don't want that type of deal, I believe that's extremely dumb. But, like raged said, should this appeal be denied and that be considered a legitimate way of IDing people, I will abuse the hell out of it and you can say goodbye to Anti-civvie RP in P3.

[Dallas]

Ok, from reading all this and the evidence earlier this situation looks VERY fishy, there probably was some meta involved. The reasons stated above seem pretty solid as to why this shouldn't be denied.

[raged]

What? When did anyone say that getting a copy of their fingerprints gives you the right to "basically metagame"? Everyone is taking what I said and twisting it. It isn't a hard concept. We have a copy of the Candyman's fingerprints, proving that he's been processed by the combine before. People on the other thread said that the scanner wouldn't be able to positively identify him, which is why I brought up this point. The way I see it, if you've been processed before by the combine (Like all citizens are when they are put into cities), then a scanner could recognize you unless you've somehow reconstructed your face.

From my understanding because NOVA had his fingerprints (even though we had a totally incorrect BOL description of him considering we thought he was black) the scanner was allowed to take a picture of him and have his fingerprints confirmed as being Candyman. I mean, if you guys actually ran his fingerprints and pulled up his face and everything and then the scanner took a picture of that, then that would seem much more appropriate/realistic but as far as I know that didn't happen at all, because even then the BOL should have been updated.

I was told it was just "scanner flashes guy, sees fingerprints, calls in cota because it is candyman"

[Sectus]

I believe it has been stated before that I wasn't openly waving my hands to the scanner, so there was no way it would've snapped a picture of them.

[ReDrUm?´´?´°]

I believe it has been stated before that I wasn't openly waving my hands to the scanner, so there was no way it would've snapped a picture of them.

When I made the finger print point on the other thread, I wasn't saying that the scanner took a picture of his fingers and compared them to fingerprints. What I was saying that the fact that the CCA has a copy of his fingerprints shows that he has in fact been processed by the CCA (Like all citizens are when they are placed in cities), which I would assume means a scanner could figure out who they are.

I wasn't in charge of forensics, or even working on that case when it happened, so I can't tell you much about the case; however, I noticed it in our database, and I figured that it made sense.

Please read all the posts.