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Half-Life 2 Roleplay => Archive => HL2RP Development[ARCHIVE] => Outside City 45 => Topic started by: putin on January 28, 2013, 04:15:02 AM
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I'm kindv'e sad that there's not more shit to deal with on outlands like a relentless bandit group moving thru ineu pass or some other shit, I think the administration should ask trusted people to create characters to purposely create the dangerous outlands the outlands should be. When anyone played HL2 did they notice much peace in the outlands? Outlands need's more danger, simple.
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Forcing things onto players is bad, let IC events happen, if they don't they they're not happening, simple.
Your argument of "play hl2 did you notice danger" is silly, the only thing in Episode 2 is rebels and OTA/synths, no bandit groups
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Yeah... I disagree with you. Yes, in the HL2 series there WAS a lot of danger outside of City 17, but I think it is mostly because they figured that Gordon Freeman was awake. Plus, it was in the later years of the canon, means probably something happened between these 2 and a half years from our current canon time.
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i'd imagine if there was a bandit group every merry ho white knight in the town would unite and kill them and take their gear
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I guess this is more of an encouragement for players to create evil characters and create some balance to the ussual "white knight" characters.
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We don't need "evil" characters so much as we need nuanced characters where it's hard for other people to tell whether they're good or bad
Characters who straddle that grey area between white knight and evil serial killer rapist bandit thug
Don't get me wrong, I'm just as guilty as the next person of not doing anything about this situation, but I'll think of a way to address it, hopefully with a few friends.
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The problem with hostile characters is (at least in my opinion) is that people lack a lot on fearrp. No offense to those who does, but I'm seeing more and more characters charging towards hostile zombies, headcrabs and what not.
Now, if you make hostile NPC's people bitch about ammo and typically want it back after the battle.
Secondly, hostile characters. There is no way people fear rp even though a dead, horrifying body with torn open stomaches. And then as stated, they charge in. This also counts towards OTA. People lack on fear.
I've got a zombie character. I've been in fights several times but not even once have I seen one p2l or even fear rp. Once I had an entire group following me. Like Wtf?
So instead of complaining about hostility, I did rather take a look at fear rp and the main OL playerbase.
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I hope I'll not be killed when I say that OTA are going to be a bit more hostile and dangerous than they've been before. They didn't really affect the Outlands population before Clockwork except weekly patrols and a raid now and then - this is subject of a soon change.
You can say OTA's aren't bandits but eh that depends on point of view.
pls dont kill me i hope its not secret
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It seems like everyone is voting to get rid of passive RP in favor of more hostility and conflict, which isn't really what Outlands should be about
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It seems like everyone is voting to get rid of passive RP in favor of more hostility and conflict, which isn't really what Outlands should be about
No? Passive RP can exist just fine with conflict, and in fact I'd say it gets quite dull without it. Conflict leads to a lot of good passive situations that wouldn't be initiated otherwise. Talking your way out of a mugging, evacuating a campsite in the path of a known combine patrol, stalking the white knight who mouthed off to your gang... I could go on and on.
I'm guessing you're thinking of hostility that downright disrupts RP, like Overwatch going door to door raiding houses and executing people, or antlion NPCs that fly around and autoattack everything in sight. I agree, that sort of conflict is detrimental, but luckily I don't believe that's what's desired in this thread.
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It seems like everyone is voting to get rid of passive RP in favor of more hostility and conflict, which isn't really what Outlands should be about
I'm guessing you're thinking of hostility that downright disrupts RP, like Overwatch going door to door raiding houses and executing people, or antlion NPCs that fly around and autoattack everything in sight. I agree, that sort of conflict is detrimental, but luckily I don't believe that's what's desired in this thread.
This is all I've seen recently, passive RP broken up by completely random OTA attacks or random antlions walking into the middle of Belles, and it seems like people are trying to push more of that, rather than less - I get that certain types of conflict provide passive RP but a lot of what I see on the server takes it all away
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It seems like everyone is voting to get rid of passive RP in favor of more hostility and conflict, which isn't really what Outlands should be about
I'm guessing you're thinking of hostility that downright disrupts RP, like Overwatch going door to door raiding houses and executing people, or antlion NPCs that fly around and autoattack everything in sight. I agree, that sort of conflict is detrimental, but luckily I don't believe that's what's desired in this thread.
This is all I've seen recently, passive RP broken up by completely random OTA attacks or random antlions walking into the middle of Belles, and it seems like people are trying to push more of that, rather than less - I get that certain types of conflict provide passive RP but a lot of what I see on the server takes it all away
I'm personally for more OTA/player conflicts.
But honestly, OTA are there to unite everyone and force them in to groups under fear that if they're alone they'll get killed by either OTA, Or fellow players.
However, (Referencing the raid that ended up with us in the bunker) there were three OTA and three-four Armed Anti-citizens(Me, Shadow, Beans) and none of us could really do anything besides throw grenades and hope for the best because I'll down right say it. Every admin was going "Guys fear RP, Guys remember to injury RP, ect" and at least I was afraid to do anything due to the admins basically watching our every move ready to correct any lack of fear/injury RP basically giving the perception that if we did /ANYTHING/ we'd get banned/warned for fail fear RP, when in reality... There was a hell of a lot more that I could/wanted to do but at least I was too OOCly afraid to do anything.
So trying to force people to fear RP doesn't work when its coming form the admins themselves instead of ICly coming from OTA.
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It seems like everyone is voting to get rid of passive RP in favor of more hostility and conflict, which isn't really what Outlands should be about
I'm guessing you're thinking of hostility that downright disrupts RP, like Overwatch going door to door raiding houses and executing people, or antlion NPCs that fly around and autoattack everything in sight. I agree, that sort of conflict is detrimental, but luckily I don't believe that's what's desired in this thread.
This is all I've seen recently, passive RP broken up by completely random OTA attacks or random antlions walking into the middle of Belles, and it seems like people are trying to push more of that, rather than less - I get that certain types of conflict provide passive RP but a lot of what I see on the server takes it all away
I'm pretty sure Overwatch aren't supposed to raid unless they're attacked themselves. I always thought the main purpose of Overwatch was to instill a sense of caution and fear of the open by patrolling roads and stuff. Raids are fun as hell, I have to admit. When I was the Overwatch leader way back when Outlands first released, we raided way too much and broke up all sorts of roleplay. That shouldn't happen here, Overwatch should be online to maintain a presence and enhance the mood on the server, not to frustrate players or ruin their experiences.
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So trying to force people to fear RP doesn't work when its coming form the admins themselves instead of ICly coming from OTA.
It's hard to try and force people to fear RP ICly when they start shooting at the OTA rather than hide. I've fired a total of three shots in my raids, my units have fired none. All this resulted in was us taking fire, when we didn't touch anyone except those who blatantly went up to us to look for us. This is why I'm curious as to why many players on outlands constantly think the OTA raid completely unprovoked? The people in town shoot at scanners or anything Combine related the instant it is visible, then expect nothing to happen afterwards. That's not how it works.
If you people don't want passive roleplay to be broken up by a raid, you should probably consider telling people NOT to fire at Combine assets when they're there - it's a really bad idea. The raid with the bunker was a massive clusterfuck and bad in general, something I will admit, but my point still stands. If you wan't to be left alone, let things such as scanners simply do their job instead of provoking a conflict by firing at it. (I believe it was a vortigaunt that did it?)
I'm pretty sure Overwatch aren't supposed to raid unless they're attacked themselves. I always thought the main purpose of Overwatch was to instill a sense of caution and fear of the open by patrolling roads and stuff. Raids are fun as hell, I have to admit. When I was the Overwatch leader way back when Outlands first released, we raided way too much and broke up all sorts of roleplay. That shouldn't happen here, Overwatch should be online to maintain a presence and enhance the mood on the server, not to frustrate players or ruin their experiences.
That's the problem, they are usually engaged fairly quickly and no one think of the consequences. They then subsequently whine about being shot at, when most of the shots I have seen coming from Overwatch has just been for pushing people away? A lot of the times when they check the town they're looking for specific targets, not trying to stir a massive shit with the players; but the players are often making that an extremely hard objective.
I hope I'll not be killed when I say that OTA are going to be a bit more hostile and dangerous than they've been before. They didn't really affect the Outlands population before Clockwork except weekly patrols and a raid now and then - this is subject of a soon change.
You can say OTA's aren't bandits but eh that depends on point of view.
pls dont kill me i hope its not secret
This is also true - while not as much 'hostile' as more present. In the past they usually just appeared when some OTA players got bored or some shit was going down. Some players have already seen what we've been doing, for example with the airboat and the little scare yesterday (you're welcome). I think I made 4 people flee the valley on my Overwatch just by saying a few words.
In the end, most Overwatch attacks aren't unprovoked like many believe they are. If you want danger and hostility you should probably start by telling people not to act like badasses (I'm not saying a majority does this, but I have seen it happen, however I don't remember the characters).
Sorry if this is hard to read, I just woke up
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I never said they're unprovoked, I mearly stated that we were forced in to a corner and basically told that we can't defend our selves due to fear RP.
Truth be told there is a lack of fear RP on outlands, but if everyone acted in fear like some people want we might as well move to city because there'd be NO difference in role play.
I agree with OTA being more hostile, but there are times where it's unneeded and disrupts RP(The bunker raid thing was started by a Vortigaunt shooting a scanner while everyone was passive RPing and such).
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I never said they're unprovoked, I mearly stated that we were forced in to a corner and basically told that we can't defend our selves due to fear RP.
Truth be told there is a lack of fear RP on outlands, but if everyone acted in fear like some people want we might as well move to city because there'd be NO difference in role play.
I agree with OTA being more hostile, but there are times where it's unneeded and disrupts RP(The bunker raid thing was started by a Vortigaunt shooting a scanner while everyone was passive RPing and such).
Then tell people to stop fucking with Combine assets - that simple. It should be common sense but apparently it is not. I know it sounds harsh but that is the way it is - provoke them and they will most likely raid
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To clarify, I have no sympathy for people who pre-emptively attack OTA patrols and then whine about shit. In my opinion, there's a need for things that are strong and powerful and not to be messed with, and I expect a more than a few players to learn this the hard way.
On the Overwatch side of things, I think more OOC training on when to engage, what to do when engaged, how to react to belligerent players, and so on, would go a long way in preventing butthurt-laden situations.
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What most people mean by Fear RP, we pretty much mean we want to see something like this happen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLk0V5SmcWM
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That was a pretty good example Hazard. Minus the fighting a giant robot with Assault Rifles and .44 magnums.
Back on topic:
Yes. More fear needs to be roleplayed in Outlands. People need to ditch the state of mind that they can bean the combine. They cant and they're going to see what happens when they try. Oz and alex have some good plans brewing right now and I expect to see an increase in fear of ota.
Back in outercanals, people feared ota so much, they wouldnt dare travel using the surface roads. In Ineu, people should travel using the thick brush and the mid level trails by the river. I built the staircases and brides there so you could walk along them without being in the path of overwatch.
As for overwatch causing rage, I talked with Oz and we decided upon an excellent system for overwatch. If Overwatch follow this system correctly, there should be no problems. If people are still butthurt, I will be talking personally to those specific people. Cause if overwatch are doing it right, refugees are not.
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What most people mean by Fear RP, we pretty much mean we want to see something like this happen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLk0V5SmcWM
This is what we normally try to do, but when OTA directly move for the inn, we had to move. When it comes to scanners I can't really see a point in having them fly around outlands randomly just looking for trouble(They gotta be fairly short range...)
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When I posted the Resistance 3 gameplay vid, the point I was trying to get across was how the rebels would NOT try and stir something up. When a Chimera/Overwatch patrol rolls by, you hunker down, ready your weapons, and pray to God that they don't find you. To me, Fear RP implies that you are ready for a fight, but would rather avoid one at all costs.
If a patrol/scanner is spotted, then hide. Shooting at them in the hopes of making them go away is like swatting at a wasp; You'll only succeed in pissing them off.
Also, for the love of God, can we please shut the fuck up about that botched raid the other day? Yes, it was a clusterfuck, and Oz has taken steps to ensure that it never happens again. I'm sorry, but it's starting to get on my nerves how people are blowing this more out of proportion than a Ted Nugent rant.
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Bandit groups don't last because there are to many whiteknights that will destroy them. If two people are having some simple brawl over a disagreement, you'll see the entire populace just jump in and begin to whiteknight. If some random waste-lander is getting mugged and someone just happens to walk by, they will instantly jump in and try to stop it even though they have no relation to this random dude.
Having OTA more hostile is fine, as long as they are not walking straight up into the Inn where people are trying to passiveRP sitting around a fireplace and talk.
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More OTA is fine, but player's shouldn't be pressured to stay in Belles because it's "safe", OTA presence is fine as long as they're specifically scaring citizens but not limiting where they can go (it's a hard balance to keep everyone happy, but I have multiple characters who'd rather not be in Belles, I shouldn't be scared into only RPing in Belles because the fear of OTA finding me and killing me is lingering on me OOC)
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I'm attempting to introduce some danger with my character Landa but I can just tell he'll be killed by a whiteknight before the week is up.
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I've honestly seen a lot of Danger in the recent weeks of Outlands opening up. I don't see how it's lacking. Most of it may be due to my past there, but i've seen Beans and Beef act as the "Rough and Tough" guys here, which is really good in my opinion. But there are also times when we all band together and gather under one whiteknight, and that is for one standard reason. For surivival. We all gather or join by side with the one who has the most kevlar on, the most powerful weapons, or the deadliest of auths.
I for one do not like it when White Knight eliminate bandit groups, it's very annoying and destroys a hub of RP.
As for the bandit groups, most do act elitist OOCly and lack fear rp. Which is why trusted members or administrators should form Bandit Groups as a second antagonist instead of the same OTA antagonist. Not only that, but they can serve as a constant antagonist and can be approached by at anytime(Although it would be highly discouraged) if they have a hideout.
The OTA do come here often and once provoked, it's logical for them to attack. But over a scanner, I do think it's a little excessive. I would understand maybe a two man recon squad for the destruction of one, not a six man deathsquad. If it was on a constant basis, then I would understand the reason for a six man deathsquad. But then again, I'm not that knowledgeable on Combine strategies.
Fear RP is a very fragile RP from an observers point of a view. There are two methods of fear. It's widely known as Flight or Fight. You fight when scared and run when scared. Your subconsious chooses one and your mind chooses the other. Problem is, our subconsious is involuentary and so it's extremely difficult to RP something you have no control over in your own body.
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Honestly, we have a problem with the map's utilization. I understand that the Inn and Belles in general is a major interaction spot but for the most part the rest of the map is unused. You'd think more OTA presence would make the refugee's scatter a bit, but no. They stay in the same spot and then act surprised and mad when OTA burst into the Inn. Why? Because it's the obvious place to go to. Why? Because the most targets are always there. It's only logic.
I remember with the Castle, that little trading group that was run by Greg before he took up and left made the little hill villa a prime interaction spot. Now? It's empty all the time. The facility was another one, however that isn't anybody's fault because it got kinda demolished so it's unusable for the most part. So really the only place people go is Belles. So in the end, don't act surprised and get all butt hurt if OTA first stop at the Inn.
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What if we had OTA walk through town, but just walk by the wondows, not really giving them a second look. Much like in that resistance 3 video?
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What if we had OTA walk through town, but just walk by the wondows, not really giving them a second look. Much like in that resistance 3 video?
That's interesting as long as, like the Reistance 3 video, nobody makes a peep. But again, I'm not so sure because won't OverWatch be inclined to check the most populated building in Belles and seeing as Belles isn't that big to begin with they can afford to check. In the Reistance 3 video, the hybrids were in a whole city, so checking everything would be a waste of time so I understand that perspective. But I guess for the sake of keeping people from bitching, it's an option.
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What if we had OTA walk through town, but just walk by the wondows, not really giving them a second look. Much like in that resistance 3 video?
That's interesting as long as, like the Reistance 3 video, nobody makes a peep. But again, I'm not so sure because won't OverWatch be inclined to check the most populated building in Belles and seeing as Belles isn't that big to begin with they can afford to check. In the Reistance 3 video, the hybrids were in a whole city, so checking everything would be a waste of time so I understand that perspective. But I guess for the sake of keeping people from bitching, it's an option.
Because sometimes for the sake of rp, you gotta ignore logic.
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How about some NPC's? Like not mass NPC war, or anything like it was in outer canals. Maybe a few zombies here, and there? Like the tunnel for example. Put some fast zombies like 1-3 then some normal ones. Even around the bunker, river, lake, and areas like that. Just to create a sense of planning before you leave your home. Will I be prepared if something comes at me, what if I get attacked, should I get a partner? At least with slow zombies it creates a sense of fear in the players, but not many people will die form them. Unless someone wants to attempt to fist fight a NPC zombie then they shouldn't really die. Along with that to avoid PK's if you die by the NPC's. "NPC's don't create RP" Thats true they don't in combat RP or anything like that. As I said before a sense of fear RP is added, and along with that team work of the IC characters to avoid them. Sometimes not everything has to be based off of RP. Sometimes people just want to see danger for the fun of it.
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I'm going to summarize this thread and add my opinion.
OTA:
Citizens of outlands are the jews and the OTA are German solders searching for you, this should be how people interact with any combine. I have to admit that my character Frank has made a few mistakes and lolattacked the combine, I'll make sure this stops and encourage others to follow the path of the jews.
NPC's: NPC's can be used sometimes but should always should be supervised by an admin. Zombies do walk around pretty slow and are very avoidable so I think unsupervised zombie NPC's in the tunnel's wouldn't be an issue.
"evil/grey" characters: People should make characters that sin like every human does. Frank Dorco, my main, has a huge drinking problem which causes trouble for some people.
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Adding hostile NPCs, even zombies, pretty much means that you have to own a firearm to travel anywhere. Not sure if want.
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I had meant to post in this earlier regarding the OTA situation, but I got sidetracked with something else. Here are the revised patrol guidelines:
Patrols and raids:
- A patrol is the fulfillment of an unscheduled reconnaissance between two or more points. There is not a specific target involved in this kind of action. Patrolling units should NOT become engaged in combat unless they encounter active resistance (such as a refugee firing at the patrol with a shotgun or if they encounter a refugee who refuses to comply with a move-on order). The required amount of units is a minimum of 3.
- There is currently no limit on the amount of patrols that can occur per week [previously, it was a limit of once a week but many players on Outlands have requested more]. They must not occur unless there are 10 or more players already on the server.
- A raid is the fulfillment of a scheduled strike against an objective. There is a specific target involved in this kind of action, usually a supply depot or a high-value target. Raiding units should NOT become engaged in combat with non-essential targets who are not related to the objective unless they offer resistance. The required amount of units is a minimum of 4 regular units with 1 Elite unit included.
- Passive RP should not be disrupted at any time unless there is an obstruction in your path (a refugee-built roadblock on a patrol route is an example of interference). On a related note, if you walk by a building window and you see the top of an unarmed citizen's head who poses no real threat, keep moving. You're free to hint at the fact that you OOCly see them by doing something like "*OTA.VANGUARD.12345 peeks his head to each side of the window frame. He examines what little is visible of the interior, but moves on after finding nothing of value."
- Patrolling units should be following the main roads and not deviating near the bunker. Patrolling up the river and back in a loop is fine, but don't ascend the pathway up to the bunker.
tl;dr - OTA won't PK you on patrols unless you start shooting at us first or if you are caught on the side of the road with a tonne of weapons and ammo. In most cases if we see you OOCly in an area that is 'hidden' then we'll keep moving on IClly.
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Why is the server population requirement 10? Why not 8 or 6? Just wondering why that specific number.
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It stops us from treating the Pass as if it's empty all of the time when the server is out of peak hour.
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Adding hostile NPCs, even zombies, pretty much means that you have to own a firearm to travel anywhere. Not sure if want.
That's why I suggest mostly slow zombies so you have a choice to run or shoot. You can pretty much out walk them.
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Adding NPCs is a horrible idea. A few reasons why.
1. One does not simply rp with an NPC.
2. Weapons would be needed to anywhere- this would suck.
3. NPCs make the game feel very shallow, un serious and so boring.
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City and Outlands are RP servers, serious ones at that, if anyone is adding NPCs they've probably lost their mind
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Adding NPCs is a horrible idea. A few reasons why.
1. One does not simply rp with an NPC.
2. Weapons would be needed to anywhere- this would suck.
3. NPCs make the game feel very shallow, un serious and so boring.
Did you read my full argument?
1. "NPC's don't create RP" Thats true they don't in combat RP or anything like that. As I said before a sense of fear RP is added, and along with that team work of the IC characters to avoid them. Sometimes not everything has to be based off of RP. Sometimes people just want to see danger for the fun of it."
2. "That's why I suggest mostly slow zombies so you have a choice to run or shoot. You can pretty much out walk them."
3. Un serious? I don't see how putting NPC's from Half-Life 2 makes it seem un serious. People have a choice to avoid or shoot them, and how is it boring? Your adding a fight into the game that makes it boring. Players have the option to do a good fight, or role play instead of just being focused on role play that doesn't really seem that horrible.
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Sometimes not everything has to be based off of RP. Sometimes people just want to see danger for the fun of it.
That's not what serious roleplay in general is about, especially not Outlands HL2RP at CG. If you "just want to see danger for the fun of it," you can get plenty of that playing any FPS vidyagame of your choosing.
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Ineu Valley has like, a shitbucket ton of space away from roads to build little tents or bases now. There's no excuse for not finding a place hidden from OTA patrols to base at.
Keep in mind, in ineu_valley, OTA will do their patrols along the major roads, completing a full loop around the area. This means they will walk past the inn to cross the bridge. OTA will not look into the inn or enter any buildings, unless provoked to do so. If you're out on the street however, they will get you and spank you, unless you have an armory on you. Then they might detain you.
TL;DR, the inn is still considered a hands-off zone for ota, however you are encouraged to find refuge somewhere in the bush. There's lots of it with lots of space for building forts n shit.