Author Topic: MetroPolice Force big makeover.  (Read 3865 times)

Offline Nicknero

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MetroPolice Force big makeover.
« on: June 13, 2014, 02:08:20 PM »
A lot to say... But it's always difficult to think of how to start, ain't it? ;)
Anyway, Kiwiee and I have been talking about the MPF and discussing a few ideas that we are willing to take into effect when the community supports it.

Division layout
Currently, we have 4 divisions: ECHO, RAZOR, GRID, and NOVA. Each division needs proper active high command to function. This however, we lack A LOT! Thus, we had the following idea:
ONE division. Yes, you heard me right. Our idea was to (at least temporary) merge everything into one big group.
Sound like a stupid idea? Not really, if you know the advantages that come with it:

Commanding ranks
Having one division solves the issue of having to many inactive high command units. Simply because we require a lot less high command at all. We were thinking of having one DvL, and two or three OfCs (Probably 2 to start with, and increasing it to 3 when the playercount raises)
Who these are going to be however, is yet unknown. We had a few certain people in mind. But if you currently have a HC unit and you show activity and are still interested, shoot us a message and we might consider you for one of the positions too.

Wait, so does this mean I would lose my rank / Is this a complete reform?
NO! Reforms are fucking stupid and don't solve anything. So if you were 03 before? You will remain 03. Same goes for all ranks with the exception of high command since we have limited room now. But hey, there are only a rare few active HC anyway. So that shouldn't be a problem.

So how are all divisions supposed to work under one big group?
Simple, you have one group instead of multiple groups. But everyone can still do what he or she likes the most. Were you NOVA before and are you more into medical stuff? Then choose the medical route through the trainings scheme! Are you more of a mechanical engineer type? Then follow that route! You like both? Then you can even choose both! The choice is completely yours to customize your character development within the MPF.

So what's with this trainings scheme you are talking about?
The way how Kiwiee and I imagined it to work out, and the way that allows everyone to completely choose their own path is as follows:
Each rank (04, 03, 02, 01 and EpU etc) have around 15 trainings. 5 trainings based around sociability, 5 trainings based around mechanical engineering, and 5 trainings based around medical stuff. The requirement to advance ranks is to complete a minimum of 5 trainings up to your choice. So if you want to choose for all 5 trainings based on medical, it's up to you. Or you want a mix of 3 medical and 2 mechanical? Sure... Or heck, if you want to completely go for it, you can complete ALL 15 trainings (or just 10) so you have experience in everything. The choice is completely yours.

Example choice difference between two units:
Unit 1: ONLY chooses medical trainings. Thus 5 trainings each rank. He will gain ranks faster than Unit 2 but his general knowledge is worse.
Unit 2: He wants to know as much as possible, so he chooses to do a bit of everything, meaning 3 medical trainings, 3 mechanical trainings and 3 sociability trainings. As a result, he will take longer than Unit 1 to gain ranks, but his general knowledge is way better which can give him the advantage of being able to do more things in the future.

Do note however that trainings in later ranks would have trainings from previous ranks with the same subject as requirement. So choose wisely!

Who's going to train units?
This is something we couldn't yet decide on. We have two options:
Option 1: TrOs (Training Officers). Like 2 or 3 of them who train both recruits, and lower ranked units along with high command who can also train obviously.

Option 2: Higher ranking units can apply to receive a "Training permit". Meaning that for example an 02 with training permit may train recruits, 04s and 03s. etc. This way everyone will technically be able to train lower ranks, thus the problem of "OMG TROs ARE NEVER ONLINE" will be solved.

So if I'm a 02 and I based all my trainings on medical, but I changed my mind and I want to be mechanical after all. Can I?
Of course! But like I said, the 02 mechanical trainings would have mechanical trainings from 03 and 04 tier as requirement. Which means that you will remain a 02 as rank, but you can do trainings from the 04 and 03 tier to get all requirements before you start with the 02 mechanical trainings.
So changing your mind is completely up to you. But it would take you a little longer to advance to the next rank.






Maybe I forgot a few things that Kiwiee and I discussed, so bleh if I did. Kiwiee will fill this further in once he has time to read it etc.
Feel free to discuss, ask questions, suggestions, etc etc.

So is this going to happen for sure?
Not if you guys are all against it. This is merely a thought out idea and we are open to constructive criticism. So if you guys are for it, we can put this in effect. But if you guys are against it, then we won't. It's that simple.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2014, 02:27:43 PM by Nicknero1405 »
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Offline Constable Strelnikov

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Re: MetroPolice Force big makeover.
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2014, 02:15:05 PM »
Honestly, I'd prefer it as it is right now. All that really needs fixing is inactive units need to be removed and RAZOR needs to be cleaned up. Other than that, we're fine.
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Offline [CA] KiwieeEh

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Re: MetroPolice Force big makeover.
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2014, 02:19:11 PM »
few things to add real quick.

For all current HC:
don't treat this as a "I LOSE MY RANK EVERYTHING SUCKS."
There is a potential for you to keep it, and if anything, we're looking into ways of it impacting you and your unit in the least way possible. But hey, the flip side is that if you do good, you keep it. Everyone's a winner!

With regards to training:
There's talks about potentials TrOs still. 01/02s that will train everything under their umbrella.
That or turning it back into the old "T Permit" style where you would train what you know given you have undertaken the "training training" to an extent.

And something else to note regarding training:
Want to look at, say, augmentation surgery? You'll need to train in surgery and mechanics but may not have to do the entire medical training line. IE First aid/forensics etc. could be avoided. There would be an in depth "requirement list" for each optional training.

It was also discussed that there will be compulsory trainings so that no unit falls behind in regular unit expectations.

Again a big thing to point out.

Nothing would change with regards to training and/or units that are currently in the force. Although the structure will change, the only difference will be a probable efficiency upgrade and not one that will negatively impact the running of "divisions."

Hey, you can do a lot more of what you want.


Honestly, I'd prefer it as it is right now. All that really needs fixing is inactive units need to be removed and RAZOR needs to be cleaned up. Other than that, we're fine.

You want to find me 10 active members that have interest in all of the HC then? Most of the efficiency problems that are coming around right now are due to the fact that, let's face it, the population is too low to sustainably manage an entire set of 4 divisions. It may only be a temporary measure anyway, it's just a way of trying to organise the system so that the entire server/single division can benefit from quick decision making, training, and activity.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2014, 02:22:23 PM by [CA] KiwieeEh »
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Offline BltElite

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Re: MetroPolice Force big makeover.
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2014, 02:26:59 PM »
Just to be devils advocate here but all im seeing here from the current system is reducing the amount of high command units themselves and renaming the ones who can train (which in the current system tro/ofc/dvl) and making them 01's or whatever, and the dvl and ofc of this system in a way being like the CmD's or whatever.

It seems a good idea, but it doesn't seem like much of a difference apart from unit name unification (so C45.MPF.01-12345 instead of current) and less high command.

A question I have though is how will you solve the eternal HC problem of CG? you can see with less HC they will be active, but what happens if they go inactive? you still have the same problem occuring as it does in the divsions(in theory).


NB - Not here to destroy the idea as I was for it when raiden used to talk to me about it, just pointing out things/questions to clear up.
what

Offline Nicknero

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Re: MetroPolice Force big makeover.
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2014, 02:28:23 PM »
Oh yeah good point Kiwiee. I forgot about the discussion to do either TrOs or higher ranks train lower ranks. So I added the following paragraph:


Who's going to train units?
This is something we couldn't yet decide on. We have two options:
Option 1: TrOs (Training Officers). Like 2 or 3 of them who train both recruits, and lower ranked units along with high command who can also train obviously.

Option 2: Higher ranking units can apply to receive a "Training permit". Meaning that for example an 02 with training permit may train recruits, 04s and 03s. etc. This way everyone will technically be able to train lower ranks, thus the problem of "OMG TROs ARE NEVER ONLINE" will be solved.



Just to be devils advocate here but all im seeing here from the current system is reducing the amount of high command units themselves and renaming the ones who can train (which in the current system tro/ofc/dvl) and making them 01's or whatever, and the dvl and ofc of this system in a way being like the CmD's or whatever.

It seems a good idea, but it doesn't seem like much of a difference apart from unit name unification (so C45.MPF.01-12345 instead of current) and less high command.

A question I have though is how will you solve the eternal HC problem of CG? you can see with less HC they will be active, but what happens if they go inactive? you still have the same problem occuring as it does in the divsions(in theory).


NB - Not here to destroy the idea as I was for it when raiden used to talk to me about it, just pointing out things/questions to clear up.

Having less HC is one of the reasons this idea has been brought up. Because like Kiwiee said: Currently we simply lack the playerbase to sustain 4 divisions.
Once we have a lot more active players and higher ranking units, we always have the option to revert back into split up divisions.

Another advantage this system will bring is that every unit has a chance to be equal. You can customize your character development exactly the way you want to, and you aren't locked in to a certain subject (medical, mechanical or sociability).

For example, what I currently see is that HC from one division is inactive while HC from the other division is active. As a result, everyone joins the other division and everyone in it is being trained and gaining ranks, while everyone in one division is left in the dark and are unable to be trained due to lack of HC activity.
With the new system in place, HC will be able to train EVERYONE. Thus the entire MPF has a equal chance of getting trained and gaining ranks.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2014, 02:35:18 PM by Nicknero1405 »
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Offline [CA] KiwieeEh

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Re: MetroPolice Force big makeover.
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2014, 02:38:53 PM »
A question I have though is how will you solve the eternal HC problem of CG? you can see with less HC they will be active, but what happens if they go inactive? you still have the same problem occuring as it does in the divsions(in theory).

First of all with regards to the inactive HC problem. There are a lot of candidates and of course of not all would become HC. Considering the current HC members would probably be given a mix of EpU - 01 to give balance it would be seen that if there is an inactive (long term) HC member with 0 reason then it would be somewhat easy to replace. Especially if the EpUs and 01s continue to prove themselves as good enough candidates.

I agree with your post and I agree with your point. But I, and Nick, would like to take the entire HC matter in hand not only with us but the current HC to ensure that there is a plan that everyone agrees on. (Of course if people get demoted they won't be happy but again, there's the whole 6 of 1 etc.) The plan is to get a system that will work to provide short term benefits within the MPF that will be sustainable and hopefully break-proof for the foreseeable future in CG.

Again there is a point that arises, maybe the system will be dissolved back into the normal and current system, but only if and when the MPF seems strong enough to continue with 4 active divisions.
The nice thing about this system is that it should/will be able to be interchangeable with the current MPF system. IE. each unit can be switched in and out of the current to proposed system with ease.
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Offline Constable Strelnikov

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Re: MetroPolice Force big makeover.
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2014, 02:43:47 PM »
I'll do what I'm needed to do. If we redo the MPF's structure like this, I'll follow - even if I don't necessarily agree with it.

As long as we keep things as they currently are forum-side, I'm fine with this (provided it is, in fact, temporary as I prefer the standard structure) - I'm simply not experienced enough to completely re-write the NOVA stuff and I don't have the HDD space for backups.
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Re: MetroPolice Force big makeover.
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2014, 03:06:28 PM »
This is my opinion/perspective: I think that we shot ourselves in the foot when we changed from C18 to C8. What I saw when we were at C18 was a good playerbase (20-30+ People). Could it be that it was a relatively new gamemode for CG and everyone hopped on the 'bandwagon'? Sure, it could be, but the thing is; after we changed to C8 the pop took a big dip and now we can't get anybody active.

Getting back on topic with the thread, I am not totally against the idea of one unified division because of the aforementioned lack of playerbase and to only be around as a temporary solution. But the thing is: Why would it matter? The problem that needs to be fixed is the playerbase itself, how are we going to get new players in if the existing ones decided not to play anymore?
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Offline Nicknero

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Re: MetroPolice Force big makeover.
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2014, 03:17:32 PM »
The problem that needs to be fixed is the playerbase itself, how are we going to get new players in if the existing ones decided not to play anymore?

But how does one fix a playerbase if there is nothing that encourages them to join?

You can't magically gain a playerbase and have things that only work with a bigger playerbase. Thus we need to find something that works with a small playerbase. And I believe that this is that 'something'.

It's like driving a car. You drive 100km/u in the 5th gear. You can easily brake down to 30km/u. But you won't be able to go back to 100km/u in 5th gear. Thus you need to temprarely gear down, gain speed again, and then gear back up to 5th gear.
Same principle with the MPF. We had a decent playerbase and the MPF went well. Then the playerbase died down for whatever reason, and thus we have to break down the MPF so it works with less people. So those who are still left and join the server at least have a working system that encourages them to stay and invite more people. Then once those more people arrive, we can go back. Or not, if people really like the new system and want to keep it. (If it comes through in the first place.) ;)
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Offline Constable Strelnikov

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Re: Re: MetroPolice Force big makeover.
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2014, 04:10:55 PM »


This is my opinion/perspective: I think that we shot ourselves in the foot when we changed from C18 to C8. What I saw when we were at C18 was a good playerbase (20-30+ People). Could it be that it was a relatively new gamemode for CG and everyone hopped on the 'bandwagon'? Sure, it could be, but the thing is; after we changed to C8 the pop took a big dip and now we can't get anybody active.
CG's been hosting HL2RP for years.

However, I wouldn't object to returning to C18 until we rebuild the population. C18 honestly isn't that bad a map, and it's more-widely used than C45, meaning we get more people joining.



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Re: Re: MetroPolice Force big makeover.
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2014, 05:27:09 PM »


This is my opinion/perspective: I think that we shot ourselves in the foot when we changed from C18 to C8. What I saw when we were at C18 was a good playerbase (20-30+ People). Could it be that it was a relatively new gamemode for CG and everyone hopped on the 'bandwagon'? Sure, it could be, but the thing is; after we changed to C8 the pop took a big dip and now we can't get anybody active.
CG's been hosting HL2RP for years.

However, I wouldn't object to returning to C18 until we rebuild the population. C18 honestly isn't that bad a map, and it's more-widely used than C45, meaning we get more people joining.



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When I mean 'relatively new' I mean that it wasn't on the server list when I joined the CG community. But yes, I have seen C18 widely used across the board and I wouldn't be against going back even though it would be our third map change.
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Offline Khub

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Re: MetroPolice Force big makeover.
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2014, 05:42:24 PM »
I mean no offence to anyone involved in the creation of this proposal, but the long wall of text in the OP could be shortened to a single sentence: You want to merge all units into one division and leave just two or three commanding units.
The idea itself isn't bad, but it's just another reform where all that changes are the names of unit characters.
Please let me add some points of mine:

- If there's only one division, there's no reason to have a DvL rank. It just doesn't make sense.
- We have too many ranks. RCT, 04, 03, 02, 01, EpU, TrO, OfC, CmD, SeC. They're redundant and don't really add up nothing new. Consider - is it really necessary to have such an amount of them? Why not have just two or three?
- There are too many stickied threads with tons of practically useless information that noone uses anyways.
- (This point was already made by Lewis in the suggestions board:) Units are 100% loyal. That's not good. Allowing corruption/IC favoritism OOC-wide would hurt nobody yet encourage so many roleplay scenarios.
- The CCA/MPF can't do anything without a written OOC authorization from everyone. People who spend time on the server should be rewarded with permissions as befit their IC rank.
- Autonomous waivers as we have them are dumb. Am I the only one who thinks this? The transcript clearly states that it allows units to decide on their own, without having to ask the dispatch/whomever. Judgment waivers represent the same problem - I believe it's supposed to be a you-can-now-shoot-people-that-endanger-you announcement, not a 'lock everyone up and have them face the wall for two hours'.

Offline Krisrules

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Re: MetroPolice Force big makeover.
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2014, 06:24:15 PM »
As a whole I think one big division in the MPF would be a lot more easier to manage, and can still do its job for HL2RP.


 

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