About Uniform and Zealot

[BltElite]

Just a point about uniform - you say dvl's and officers changed every 2-3 months, that was fairly common in most of the divsions, otherwise the divsion itself would end up being stale unless the dvl stayed active and came up with new ideas all the time (not a dig at any dvl that was in 3+ months, you guys were the good ones).

UNIFORM is and has been the best way for CG to bring units in since the start. HELIX happened and whatever the other one was and that just broke everything. Maybe if you had the ground support divsion as the main one that brought in units and they then trasnferred to the med/eng divsion to specialise that could work better than 4 divsions, but that could cause problems.

[Khub]

UNIFORM could have felt boring for people because of the quite lengthy list of trainings every recruit had to undergo. The excessive amount of trainings felt boring for both sides, I suppose. Well, for me it did for sure. By the time I was UNIFORM DvL, I couldn't even think of making an another reform. I was too lazy and too afraid of the reaction that would happen if I cut all the trainings into three or four most basic ones. I did it wrong.

Here's an idea concerning the recruitment process that I thought of today:
1. Meet the IC requirements.
2. Apply at your local friendly officer, who'll query the radio for anyone charged with interviewing. Optionally, such a possibility could be announced via the city dispatch when such a unit comes online.
3. Your datafile is checked (includes the brief OOC check) and you're asked basic questions regarding your character, dropping the need of writing down backstory on the forums. You still need to prepare your character sheet prior so you're ready for questions like "Where were you born?" or "What is the name of your father?" (you get the point, don't nitpick the examples, please). Those questions can be reworded and repeated to make sure you aren't making the answers up on the go or that you're at least able to remember your answers.
4. I know you're all mostly butthurt about all kinds of intelligence gathering divisions but there's this really nice idea originally proposed by alexanderk: interviews could be associated with a period of surveillance done by the intelligence division. It also makes sense.
5. Regular basic training sessions for accepted applicants. You'd bring those in - either by asking nicely via dispatch or by getting units do it by force (encourages assistance across divisions, gives units brainlessly circling the Plaza something to do and is overall more interesting). Those sessions shouldn't last over an hour and should only teach the recruits the most mandatory stuff:
- How to put on your gear.
- How to use the radio.
- How to use the stunstick.
- The route to detainment, medbay and the break room.
6. The fresh recruits get attached to more experienced units, who help them get used to their new job.
7. The recruitment division leadership sticks around and observes the behaviour of the recruits, and promotes those who are deemed ready for it.

This approach would bring some differences in relation to the former UNIFORM regulations, those being mostly:
1. Recruits can get kidnapped (given the administration won't put any too stupid rule prohibiting this) and get their basic gear stolen.
2. Recruits can make silly mistakes because they don't have to spend a year sitting in the classroom, watching the lector spam the chatbox with stuff. They can let a person run into Nexus, perhaps even steal something or cause something bad.

Recruits should feel paranoid and they should afraid to do stuff. They won't play robocops if they know they're not safe "because it's p1 where webuls cannot go" and if they know they're going to get into troubles for losing their gear or for doing too much mistakes. In reality, I believe they'd be the most likely targets, and they should be made feel like it. Those troubles should be an actual IC consequence, be it a beating, solitary confinement, labor, humiliation, or whatever.

Now my two cents about intelligence divisions. I'm up for both internal and external affairs, but I feel like they shouldn't be distinguished from the crowd at all. They should have an ordinary name and an ordinary uniform while on duty and should fulfil the same tasks while not busy with their own directives. It'd help maintain their secrecy and would silence all the "durr zealot" and "durr 02" blabber. In the event of where IA would need to take action, would a pair/group of IA units literally kidnap the unit aside and do whatever has to be done.

I wrote a wall of text again, I'm sorry.

[tics]

If anyone seriously thinks that "Zealot promotes elitism" is a legitimate reason not to have it return at some point in the future, they should just leave HL2RP. Practically everything in HL2RP can promote elitism. It's the nature of roleplay.

[Sexy Frog]

I don't get why we don't just cut out the middle man here? I mean, lets be honest...what practical purpose does UNIFORM serve? It's the Enlistment and Training Division. If it was SO vital, they wouldn't have tried on a few occasions (once actually succeeding) to merge it with APEX. That in of itself shows that the division's importance is questionable at best.

In the past, UNIFORM/UNION was the division that probably collapsed the most between people getting bored of it and people just not wanting the hassle of having to put up with the repetitive shit. Because I know my time in JURY sucked hard core, and that was with two divisions mixed in one, so I can only imagine how just hardcore recruit training 24/7 can be. So how about this? Instead of having a division JUST for the sake of training recruits which almost nobody wants to do (and if they do want to do it, then I wonder how long they'll actually last) and spread our resources a bit?

By this I mean that from the get-go, let recruits pick the division they want to be in. So they can be C##.CCA.GRID-RCT.###, C##.CCA.APEX-RCT.###, C##.CCA.NOVA-RCT.### or whatever the hell and from that point have EVERY division offer recruit based training. That way there is no one division solely focused on recruits that make you get bored because since recruits are also in specialized divisions as well, the higher ups can also focus on other matters that are more interesting instead of constantly only worrying about training, ranks and other divisions. On top of this, it thins out of flood of recruits that would come in to UNIFORM officers in the past which would most of the time leave them overwhelmed since it would essentially spread all recruits across all three or whatever number of divisions there are. I personally find this option much more appealing and everyone really benefits from it.






As for ZEALOT...I have always and still to this day firmly believe that it should fall under the jurisdiction of the sociostability division to handle. Ergo, it should be a sub-division since the External Affairs portion is indeed a sub-branch of sociostability maintainment. But regardless, it is something that should not exist in a newly starting server for quite some time until anti-citizenship actually has a bit of a chance.

[smt]

uniform still has a purpose, we give them the basics of the cca rather than make 3 other divisions do the same training, we're coming up with good ideas to ease the transition from recruit into 05 of any divisions and kinda like your idea they'll be able to say "i want to join grid, so i'm going to focus on that" and we'll be able to help them all and we won't be overwhelmed because there's gonna be much less training and its all good for everyone

no point letting other divisions deal with brand new recruits when uniform can do it

[Sexy Frog]

Every unit has to know the basics no matter what division, am I wrong? So I don't see the issue with having every division do it. There was also a little mishap not too long ago regarding certain units in certain divisions not knowing what they should despite being at a rank where they were supposed to. That being said, I think this would allow units to have more incentive to actually retain what they're told. If every divisions does recruit training for specified to their divisions or the like, then I think it ends up being more practical in the long run versus one ill managed division for the soul purpose of recruits.

On top of that, it prunes the HC list quite a bit. Assuming every division has 2 Officers under each 1 DvL, then with all the divisions total (UNIFORM included) would be 12 HC units (As apposed to only 9 without UNIFORM). Even if you were to have each division with only 1 officer to start with, that's still 8 HC units total (As apposed to 6 without UNIFORM).

All in all, I still fail to see how UNIFORM is really necessary. It really seems more a liability than an asset; especially given its previous track record.

[smt]

it's previous track record? in what way? people training recruits in their divison won't do a necessarily better or worse job, having recruits trained outside of each division means every recruit is given the exact same, short basic training, as opposed to (like i remember happened before) certain recruits being taught slightly different things adding to everyones overall confusing when 2 different 04/03s are trying to do one thing but they do it a different way to each other, in stuff like RD or clamping that can be a huge issue

people don't like training, when tro spots opened in uniform no one really joined because the majority of people don't want to do training, so who's going to do it in the other divisions? the ofcs and dvls? they already have thier own set of units to train, and making the lower ranks do it seems odd as they aren't as experienced most of the time

having uniform lets the divisions dvl's do their exact own thing and focus on their own specialized division instead of having to deal with that as well as basic cca training, it's just an unorganized mess without a dedicated group for every recruit to pass through, uniform has worked perfectly fine before with literally 0 issues before, i dunno why we'd remove it causing more issues and work for everyone

[Sexy Frog]

it's previous track record? in what way? people training recruits in their divison won't do a necessarily better or worse job, having recruits trained outside of each division means every recruit is given the exact same, short basic training, as opposed to (like i remember happened before) certain recruits being taught slightly different things adding to everyones overall confusing when 2 different 04/03s are trying to do one thing but they do it a different way to each other, in stuff like RD or clamping that can be a huge issue

people don't like training, when tro spots opened in uniform no one really joined because the majority of people don't want to do training, so who's going to do it in the other divisions? the ofcs and dvls? they already have thier own set of units to train, and making the lower ranks do it seems odd as they aren't as experienced most of the time

having uniform lets the divisions dvl's do their exact own thing and focus on their own specialized division instead of having to deal with that as well as basic cca training, it's just an unorganized mess without a dedicated group for every recruit to pass through, uniform has worked perfectly fine before with literally 0 issues before, i dunno why we'd remove it causing more issues and work for everyone

it's previous track record? in what way

In the past, UNIFORM/UNION was the division that probably collapsed the most between people getting bored of it and people just not wanting the hassle of having to put up with the repetitive shit. Because I know my time in JURY sucked hard core, and that was with two divisions mixed in one, so I can only imagine how just hardcore recruit training 24/7 can be.

In this way.

people don't like training, when tro spots opened in uniform no one really joined because the majority of people don't want to do training, so who's going to do it in the other divisions? the ofcs and dvls? they already have thier own set of units to train, and making the lower ranks do it seems odd as they aren't as experienced most of the time

Then what purpose would Uniform serve if nobody is willing to help do it? Just as you said, people don't like training, but it is a necessary evil. The difference I am trying to make is that fact that like you said, "They already have their own set of units to train", which is precisely the point of making them sign up for a division upon recruitment. Because at that point, that recruit is apart of that "set of units to train". If we wanna talk about making it more effective, then cut the fat with the expendable training that never gets used anyway, I'm sure there's one or two that can be spared.

I mean think of it this way: The more hands helping, the faster things get done. Right or wrong? 6 (or 8 depending on 2 OfC's or not) High Command units able to effectively process X amount of recruits simultaneously due to them being in their respective divisions thus allowing them to have direct jurisdiction over them in regards to ranking and training versus 2 (or 3) HC units solely dedicated to Uniform who have to train them and then approve their transfers into their desired divisions, etc, etc. All that seems unnecessary.

And I don't see how it makes it any more complicated than anything else? All it is is one extra block of training. The way the manifests have always worked, it's not like some super drastically life altering change that can make or break the CCA, lol. It's literally an extra 30 minutes to a hour or so of training to the already mapped out ranking manifests.

[smt]

2 (or 3) HC units solely dedicated to Uniform who have to train them and then approve their transfers into their desired divisions, etc, etc.=

this way is a lot faster especially with the changes being made literally to decrease the time units spend doing dumb unneeded training and to focus on getting them into divisions faster

[Sexy Frog]

2 (or 3) HC units solely dedicated to Uniform who have to train them and then approve their transfers into their desired divisions, etc, etc.=

this way is a lot faster especially with the changes being made literally to decrease the time units spend doing dumb unneeded training and to focus on getting them into divisions faster

They'd already be in their divisions from the start...what can be faster than that? They do their needed, not dumb training in their respective divisions while surrounded by what they wanna do after finishing.

[Lone Wanderer <??"?]

how about uniform does all basic training that is uniform across all divisions on the cca (ie: recruit stuff but also training with firearms, drill practices, leadership training, etc). Oh, and we should also have uniform conduct drills/training sessions beyond low ranking units because its honestly just sad to see 02's who can't figure out how to breach a door right

[smt]

how about uniform does all basic training that is uniform across all divisions on the cca (ie: recruit stuff but also training with firearms, drill practices, leadership training, etc). Oh, and we should also have uniform conduct drills/training sessions beyond low ranking units because its honestly just sad to see 02's who can't figure out how to breach a door right

uniform is gonna be teaching recruits the basic (all the basic unit stuff about patroling and detaining, simple firearms, simple clamping etc etc etc), anything more is up to what the divisions choose to teach, if nova want to have their units godlike at clamping and breaching then thats between nova's hc and their units

[raged]

do me a favour and when you make a new intelligence divison dont name it zealot just so people can distinguish between it because i will like to use it in future as an example to show an effective intelligence division

thanks

[Lone Wanderer <??"?]

I dont mean godlike at clamping. What im saying is uniform should be training the units in practices that are universal (such as clamping procedure, basic weapons management, leadership skills, hazard management, dealing with certain situations, etc), and the specific divisions should be teaching specialized training (ie medical stuff for nova, tech for grid, advanced tactics for apex, etc, etc)

I mean, that way, training is universal and units from x division wont be trying to do a breach in a different way than y division is, and uniform can then have those two divisions do drills to make sure they stay ontop of it all

[Teitoku Ippan]

having each division train recruits wont work when most units in there will not want to train them and if forced to, will half-ass it and produce piles of shit quality units who wont know what the difference between breaching and a cheese sandwich is

dedicated team, aka uniform, would be best suited to training recruits the basics of what they need to know which they can then be trained to do more specific stuff in the division they choose to join

therefore uniform would not be a liability and would be more beneficial when you have a dedicated team who are willing to train and teach recruits and grind out good quality fresh units rather than units who dont give a fuck about recruits and will teach them potato ways and fuck up their learning experience in the long run