The recent talk about weapons after the Sandy Hook incident.

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Offline Kevin

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The recent talk about weapons after the Sandy Hook incident.
« on: January 04, 2013, 10:29:19 PM »
Unless you've been completely blacked out from the media, you know what happened in Newtown, CT.

You know where I'm going with this, so I won't bother to elaborate, what is your view on the weapon restrictions and bans that are being decided in the United States right now?

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Offline Rory

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Re: The recent talk about weapons after the Sandy Hook incident.
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2013, 12:31:21 AM »
I have a best friend who knew Adam Lanza... Yes his mom was a gun collector, but it's what drove him to so such a thing. In middle school, Adam was funny as shit, but he was put on an anti depressant medication that happened to be very strong, which has a side effect of Paranoia and other things including strange physiologic behavior. If you have ever experienced this kind of thing, everything around you tends to be disturbing to you, you don't even want to look at anything, you feel like it's a problem towards you. You could do other things to get rid of it, but you don't think about doing it... Instead you tend to think about killing the problem or yourself, unfortunately our friend Adam thought both ways couldn't go wrong. Did he have  aspergers, not that my friend remembers. He never heard him skipping lines, repeating other phrases, or hesitating like you would see with a child with aspergers. The media brings shit up like they hit a light bulb, and somehow we have people scratching their heads about NRA vs Mentality support. I am for- none. I am very against the medication that went on within Adam Lanza's life. I have never taken prescription pills nor am I assigned one, but i have had experience with extremely high blood sugars and poor diet and something like that can make you want to do what Adam did. Along with banning rifles... it can end up like any other black market. Prices go up dramatically, but the accessibility also increases... A lot. I can buy a gram of Cannabis just by calling my friend and having it delivered to me for 20 bucks. I can probably go right around the corner and buy a 500 dollar Glock and walk away. Black Market wants money, not trust... If you decide to take that glock, put it to your head, and blast your fucking brains all over the wall... No problem. Same goes with drugs or any other black market product... No limits because nobody is watching you except for your wallet.

tl:dr: imo it was his pills that did most of the work, banning a rifle will make problems worse
« Last Edit: January 05, 2013, 12:33:07 AM by Rory Phelps »

Offline rBST Cow

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Re: The recent talk about weapons after the Sandy Hook incident.
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2013, 12:50:45 AM »
20 bucks for a gram? You need to find a new dealer lol

On topic: Weapon restriction is just dumb, it will shoot violent crime rate up, just like the countries that have very strict gun laws. People who follow the law and are mentally stable won't have anything to protect themselves, and only criminals will have them.

Just because you make something illegal doesn't mean it stops the problem.
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Offline [LP]GMK-MRL

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Re: The recent talk about weapons after the Sandy Hook incident.
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2013, 01:23:55 AM »
Ban guns, guns goes on the black market, more gang violence over which gang will sell what in some gang territory. Happenes all the time. If all the illegal drugs were legal now, crime would drop pretty rapidly or it would be reduced down to petty petty dealers and kids in upper class families with enough money to be ripped off by some dealer. (Then again, if we legalized all illegal drugs, i'm pretty sure dealers wil make a new, more dangerous drug). I know this from experience with gangs, they fight each other over territory and drug rights, well the real ones do anyway. You can call them a dirty shirt, knap head, crippled crip, sloppy donught, b down, c up, b up, c down, they won't care. Mess with their stockpile and they will look for you.

Offline Rory

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Re: The recent talk about weapons after the Sandy Hook incident.
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2013, 01:39:26 AM »
20 bucks for a gram? You need to find a new dealer lol

On topic: Weapon restriction is just dumb, it will shoot violent crime rate up, just like the countries that have very strict gun laws. People who follow the law and are mentally stable won't have anything to protect themselves, and only criminals will have them.

Just because you make something illegal doesn't mean it stops the problem.
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Offline Hazard Time

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Re: The recent talk about weapons after the Sandy Hook incident.
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2013, 02:00:56 AM »
Speaking of gun prices, even just the THOUGHT of restrictions on "assault weapons" (a classification created by ignorant folk to describe anything that looks like an AR-15 or AK-47) has shot the prices of such weapons through the roof.  Just recently, my dad is selling an RPK which he bought for $500 on some gun auction site, and it is already up to $1200.  I've seen other rifles going as high as $4800.  What's even more interesting is that every gunstore sold out of "assault weapons" within the first couple weeks after the Newtown incident.  My dad's AR-15 didn't last a day.

Back on topic, I strongly believe that guns are NOT at fault here.  As Rory said, Adam was on anti-depressants that messed with his brain, and the fact that his mom did not secure her guns properly, especially when she knew her son was going criminally insane, allowed this to happen.

Finally, I do not believe that "assault weapons" will be banned.  The worst that could happen, which itself is far-fetched, is that they are deemed Class 3 (Automatic weapons and silencers are currently labelled as such), meaning you cannot gain custody of one unless you go through the full background check, which I have heard takes several months to complete.  However, as has been said millions of times over, you could always just screw the system and buy them off the black market at super low prices

Re: The recent talk about weapons after the Sandy Hook incident.
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2013, 08:19:50 AM »
Time for the biggest shooting nut on the forums to weigh in.


Banning "Assault weapons" is stupid, it voids the true reasons for the second amendment, and that is that any civilian should have the power to fight off an invading army/corrupt government.(Yes I know what your going to say "LOL you're paranoid." No, I'm not, thats what it was first fucking put there for.), what people tend to forget, is weapons like that are use for for both hunting(AR-15 is a good "Hog gun") and  sports shooting, I personally have three friends who can out shoot marines with an AR-15, with this ban, they would have a very, very hard time just getting the ammo for it.

When the first "Assault weapons ban" came around, it was stupid, it did nothing to lower(Crime went up 3% during this period) crime, but people connect guns to crime, it doesn't work that way.
People tend to go to crime like dealing drugs and joining gangs because of poverty, this has already been proven. Poverty goes up, Crime goes up, Poverty goes down, Crime goes down. its the way the world work, but instead of people doing this they're pushing their agendas and trying to remove guns because they think its the problem because its "Easier to fix" and in the mean while, we get screwed.

Personally, I know for a /FACT/ the mental healthcare system is FUBAR and needs to be fixed, but this is hard, and the easy way out is to ban these "Assault weapons" instead of sitting down and doing the proper thing and fixing it.
The Mental health care system has been fucked for a VERY long time, people abuse it, its full of legal loopholes, and the doctors just throw meds at it and expect everything to be better, this gets people /KILLED/, the guy who shoot up the theater in Colorado was crazy, the doctor knew he was potentially dangerous, but because he didn't present a "Clear and present danger"(As in he told her he wanted to shoot up a place) nothing /could/ happen with out breaking the law.

My dad's best friend got stabbed(He was a teacher in a "Last chance" school) because of a kid that was a already known and proven psychopath(He stabbed his sister for taking too long in the shower) and he got out due to legal loop holes and lack of follow up(They threw pills at him but didn't make sure he took them).


There is a lot in this nation that needs reform, guns laws, aren't one of them.
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Offline wakeboarderCWB

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Re: The recent talk about weapons after the Sandy Hook incident.
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2013, 08:40:52 AM »
This is the problem with the modern age. Everything has to be peaceful and equal. No, that's not how it works. Humans have always fought and ripped at each other, that's how life works. If something bad happens in today's day and age, the government and what I like to call the "Anti Everything" parents try to ban any little aspect that was part of it.

Banning guns won't do anything. My opinion has already been stated, and that is banning rifles will only cause more trouble. Someone breaks into my house with a gun and guns are banned. What do I do? Do as they say? No, I go and grab my rifle or .44 and tell that motherfucker to leave. If it ends up in a shootout, then that's his fault for breaking in.

All in all, banning guns will only cause more trouble and chaos.

Offline Kevin

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Re: The recent talk about weapons after the Sandy Hook incident.
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2013, 11:43:02 AM »
I'm liking what I'm seeing here, I agree with everyone's points.

And may I point out Illinois has some of the strongest gun laws in the United States, and they had upwards of I think 500 gun related murders last year alone. We're five days into the new year and there's already five gun related murders.

If you take something away, people will still get it, just by different means, and if you think criminals will follow gun control laws, you're a fucking moron, and from what I've seen, people are implying that these laws will just make all gun related crime just evaporate...
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Offline Mr Jive

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Re: The recent talk about weapons after the Sandy Hook incident.
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2013, 10:21:09 PM »
I'm just going to play Devil’s Advocate here for the sake of debate so don’t take this as my personal opinion.

In 1997 Thomas Hamilton shot dead 16 children and their teacher in Dunblane. The following year the 1997 firearms act was passed making it near impossible to own a personal handgun, since then there have been no homicides by firearm since. This act and the acts of 1968 have made England have the lowest Gun homicide rate in the world, notably 40 times smaller than the US. It took many decades but Gun crimes are pretty much non-existent in England now and honestly no one feels like they are missing out by not having guns, now the British Government is slowly cracking down on Knife crimes, trying to bring them to a halt.

Anyway this is just some food for thought to help with the discussion.
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Offline Reimer

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Re: The recent talk about weapons after the Sandy Hook incident.
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2013, 10:25:37 PM »
I'm just going to play Devil’s Advocate here for the sake of debate so don’t take this as my personal opinion.

In 1997 Thomas Hamilton shot dead 16 children and their teacher in Dunblane. The following year the 1997 firearms act was passed making it near impossible to own a personal handgun, since then there have been no homicides by firearm since. This act and the acts of 1968 have made England have the lowest Gun homicide rate in the world, notably 40 times smaller than the US. It took many decades but Gun crimes are pretty much non-existent in England now and honestly no one feels like they are missing out by not having guns, now the British Government is slowly cracking down on Knife crimes, trying to bring them to a halt.

Anyway this is just some food for thought to help with the discussion.

Should probably bring along the fact that the UK is a couple of islands, not a half of a continent with a long, understaffed border which criminals take advantage of in order to procure guns (untraceable guns at that) at cheaper and cheaper prices.
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Re: The recent talk about weapons after the Sandy Hook incident.
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2013, 10:28:50 PM »
I'm just going to play Devil’s Advocate here for the sake of debate so don’t take this as my personal opinion.

In 1997 Thomas Hamilton shot dead 16 children and their teacher in Dunblane. The following year the 1997 firearms act was passed making it near impossible to own a personal handgun, since then there have been no homicides by firearm since. This act and the acts of 1968 have made England have the lowest Gun homicide rate in the world, notably 40 times smaller than the US. It took many decades but Gun crimes are pretty much non-existent in England now and honestly no one feels like they are missing out by not having guns, now the British Government is slowly cracking down on Knife crimes, trying to bring them to a halt.

Anyway this is just some food for thought to help with the discussion.
America =/= England.


The problem with comparing those two is the fact that here in America we have a problem with the Cartel and because of this a black market/high drug problem(None weed drugs almost always leads to violence down the road) so removing guns won't do anything because we're not an island, no one needs a boat to get here.
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Offline wakeboarderCWB

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Re: The recent talk about weapons after the Sandy Hook incident.
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2013, 08:47:37 AM »
I'm just going to play Devil’s Advocate here for the sake of debate so don’t take this as my personal opinion.

In 1997 Thomas Hamilton shot dead 16 children and their teacher in Dunblane. The following year the 1997 firearms act was passed making it near impossible to own a personal handgun, since then there have been no homicides by firearm since. This act and the acts of 1968 have made England have the lowest Gun homicide rate in the world, notably 40 times smaller than the US. It took many decades but Gun crimes are pretty much non-existent in England now and honestly no one feels like they are missing out by not having guns, now the British Government is slowly cracking down on Knife crimes, trying to bring them to a halt.

Anyway this is just some food for thought to help with the discussion.
The thing with this is we have the second amendment. It's something Americans have cherished and loved ever since it was created. Taking it away is like taking away a lifestyle from some Americans.

Offline Kevin

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Re: The recent talk about weapons after the Sandy Hook incident.
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2013, 09:40:40 AM »
I'm just going to play Devil’s Advocate here for the sake of debate so don’t take this as my personal opinion.

In 1997 Thomas Hamilton shot dead 16 children and their teacher in Dunblane. The following year the 1997 firearms act was passed making it near impossible to own a personal handgun, since then there have been no homicides by firearm since. This act and the acts of 1968 have made England have the lowest Gun homicide rate in the world, notably 40 times smaller than the US. It took many decades but Gun crimes are pretty much non-existent in England now and honestly no one feels like they are missing out by not having guns, now the British Government is slowly cracking down on Knife crimes, trying to bring them to a halt.

Anyway this is just some food for thought to help with the discussion.
The thing with this is we have the second amendment. It's something Americans have cherished and loved ever since it was created. Taking it away is like taking away a lifestyle from some Americans.

That, and the fact that not everyone is using their firearms to run around shooting up schools. Whether or not certain firearms are banned WILL NOT determine whether massacres continue.
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Re: The recent talk about weapons after the Sandy Hook incident.
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2013, 12:44:04 AM »
Mental health is the problem, not guns. I could get a rifle as easily as I could get a ounce of weed illegally, albeit more expensive but money isn't the issue here. Illegalizing guns would only create more of a blackmarket for them, not only from the ones already in circulation but then they'll be smuggled in to the country like everything else.
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