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Backup Sections => HL2RP Development[ARCHIVE] => Suggestions => Topic started by: Lone Wanderer
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Probably one of the biggest issues I had with the previous HL2RP server was the the administration basically had to stick their nose in everything that went on, and step in/said "this can't happen" with so much stuff. I mean, there were so many different issues that the administration would get involved in, and there would end up either being:
a) a big break in immersion
b) the possible voiding of the entire RP because they didn't like something that happened
c) a 45 minute debate in LOOC where people are waiting for nothing to happen
The administration on the server needs to take a big five steps back from things and not get involved unless there's REAL rulebreaking or a break in what's realistic roleplay. If a unit goes into a restricted area, don't be the retarded admin that comes and physguns them back into P1. let High Command deal with it, not admins. If someone walks into P1 with a gun and draws it, let CCA members deal with it, because thats their job, not an admins. And if someone is being a douchebag ICly, let them get what comes to them ICly; an admin doesn't have to intervene and mold the environment in the way they want to. People need to do that for themselves or there's going to be no enjoyment in the server.
discuss
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none of the things you listed in the last paragraph happened, i can't recall any time when an admin publicly fucked around in front of more than like 2/3 people, admins might break immersion or feel the need to discuss something in looc but there's usually a very good reason for it even if you don't know that reason
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No. Do you think the admins just loved doing that? The only reason there was a "45 minute debate" was because the RPers would bitch about it. 90% of the time, the admins were right.
Also, we didn't void stuff because "we didn't like it". We did it because it was either against the rules, overpowered or something along those lines
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Breaking immersion is kinda hard to avoid. Stuff like going into observer mid RP is annoying yeah, but it can be avoided. An admin could just excuse himself ICly saying he has to attend to something then just go to a un-populated area, and disappear into the mist of observer.
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Breaking immersion is kinda hard to avoid. Stuff like going into observer mid RP is annoying yeah, but it can be avoided. An admin could just excuse himself ICly saying he has to attend to something then just go to a un-populated area, and disappear into the mist of observer.
this is very true but a lot of the time you just gotta get there fast too
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I've always agreed with this. I fully support RP being minimally restricted by administration. If events transpire that don't play in the favor or one faction/person or another, take IC steps to turn the tide. Simple as that. Prime example? Outlands Dark Knights vs. White Knights. Yes, I am bringing this up again.
What happened? White Knights roamed about in distasteful masses constantly being the hero all the time. Hardly enough bandits and free for all behavior that one would expect in a place with no order. At no point was there OOC intervention from anyone to regulate this which was a blatant example of an unbalanced base. Thus the opposite came about with players whom were bent on doing bringing about more crime and free for all mentalities. Through IC means we went about picking off those who we deemed our enemies. Fully RP'd, fully legitimate and near hitch-less. But people didn't like it and methods of OOC intervention were proposed as well as hours and hours of argument for something that was done correctly.
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Im not sure if I should post this here but... The server should also be a little less strict about the authorizations. I mean, you had to make an authorization for almost EVERYTHING. Its reasonable to ask for autorizations to stuff that are hard to get, but I mean... Back in the old days admins asked you authorizations for having anything! From a jacket that could warm up your character to simple sharp metals or shanks! I think that limits a lot of the RP that was created in the server...
I think that a player should save the logs of the RP he created for obtaining does items in case they need them to prove that infact, they did RPed obtaining those items instead of having to write a whole authorization application and waiting days to get accepted or denied, thats just delaying RP...
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I think that a player should save the logs of the RP he created for obtaining does items in case they need them to prove that infact, they did RPed obtaining those items instead of having to write a whole authorization application and waiting days to get accepted or denied, thats just delaying RP...
the thing is both sides can be argued, where do you find a jacket? jackets dont just appear out of no where, nothing does, in a true hl2rp there would be nothing but basic units and citizens who have next to nothing, obviously that'd be boring but there still needs to be a good reason for people to find stuff, if admins let anyone have stuff and we just trusted them then think how many people will abuse it in turn, admins do limit stuff in a strict way because it has to be done else people will find ways to abuse it
you could then argue "well admins can just find the abusers instead of limiting everyone" but that arguments applies generically to everything, why don't we just spawn pistols and smgs around the map and "trust" players not too abuse them, for the start at least it should be hard and maybe if we can trust the majority of the playerbase then we can open up the stuff to need less apps and auths
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my favourite bit is when i walked into a room and an admin looks at me and toggles observer to see my name
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The reason why administration was so strict was because if we didn't put a hold on most things, citizens would walk around with top tier armor and super leet master karate skills within a week.
Believe me... It may seem like we tried to screw you over, but it has good intentions. And it's for the best to keep everything fair and legit in the long run.
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The reason why administration was so strict was because if we didn't put a hold on most things, citizens would walk around with top tier armor and super leet master karate skills within a week.
coming from you
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The reason why administration was so strict was because if we didn't put a hold on most things, citizens would walk around with top tier armor and super leet master karate skills within a week.
coming from you
Irony much?
Tell me where I had top tier armor and super leet master karate skills?
<::[[ Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S2 using Tapatalk 2 ]]::>
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jellyfish
also I'd post some examples from my experience but it's late and I'm sick and still have school so ya
Ps: it may or may not be an edit of this post 8)
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jellyfish
Lol, she had no armor. Nor karate skills. The most she had was a basic SMG or something. But that is completely fine, right Raged? http://catalyst-gaming.net/index.php?topic=27136.0
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i was discussing more the whole ex-combine assassin ops training thing and how when i went to have you killed you had a sook
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im having jellyfish flashbacks
ok, the deal with administration is to remember that Gmod is a game and therefore a thing you play for fun, not something you go on to fulfill some bullshit sense of 'duty' by being piled with 20 rules and constant monitoring
rules are good but we actually might end up look like a bunch of sad-os if we go around mainaining the old standards. that shit was like a shitty game of thrones; everyone hated eachother and nobody risked enjoying themselves too much
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@dalboy
hence the title serious rp, I like the tension, it makes it p immersive
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I'm not saying that the administration needs to just completely step away and not do anything, because that would be just stupid. I'm saying that the administration needs to take a few steps back, is all. My examples were a bit extreme and biased in most cases (like the 45 minute thing, that was usually when ota was involved so that was pretty much players yeah), but they still hold some valid ground. I mean, I know you guys have the best interest of the players in mind when you're stepping in and all, but if you keep doing that whenever something goes 'wrong', roleplay isn't going to develop naturally at all. It's just going to keep being a construct of what's been 'changed or fixed' in a sense.
One example of this I found was the administrative restriction on D2/P3/the different names its been called for units. I always was given the impression, and even told on different occasions, that entering there as a unit was seen as breaking a physical rule, and you'd be confronted by the admins by it. Okay, so in that case, what's the point of the CCA having policies on it? I mean, if there's going to be so many cases where the administration steps in to solve problems, why do these different IC factions have rules on these, yet don't get to interact with the character in a 'natural' fashion?
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We just need to pick admins wisely. And yeah i agree admins need to take a step back. But if you're going to burn down a building, especially a major one, make sure administration is ok with it and that you have a plan to rebuild it by the end of the week (as admins we have to have a cleanup plan within a few days if we do a destruction event)
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I found was the administrative restriction on D2/P3/the different names its been called for units. I always was given the impression, and even told on different occasions, that entering there as a unit was seen as breaking a physical rule, and you'd be confronted by the admins by it.
while i wouldnt phys gun someone away my imeddiate reaction would be to investigate because most units dont just stroll there, i get it, i get people would do it IC eventually, but that also lights up a huge flag in my mind that someones gonna try and do either legit rp or just flat out rdm you then there's one gun in p2 we dont know about plus any other supplys on you, etc etcccc
i dont think any of us would have stopped it but it IS something that flags up in our minds just because there are pretty much always minges or people who might try their chance at something dumb
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i had an admin threaten to ban me for wanting to lead an ic coup in the cca
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The problem with admining something such as hl2rp is a lot of the situations you get are case dependant so always require some amount of time talking to find out any underlying reasons/info
but yeah, some of the problems i saw admins getting into could be ic solved, its just due to how some people are on the server admins would normally have to go on the side of caution in case rules ended up being broken etc etc
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But I'm saying, don't do stuff to prevent rules that MIGHT be broken. An admin should step in if bad things happen, but I'd appreciate if there was less preventing of roleplay simply because theres a possibility rules could end up being broken. I mean technically, there's a possibility to break rules in any situation.
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But I'm saying, don't do stuff to prevent rules that MIGHT be broken. An admin should step in if bad things happen, but I'd appreciate if there was less preventing of roleplay simply because theres a possibility rules could end up being broken. I mean technically, there's a possibility to break rules in any situation.
Basically what you are saying, which I agree on is the following example (which someone used earlier in this thread):
Say, a unit walks into D2/P6/Whatever. Admins shouldn't just stop him right there even though it might be against the rules. You never know if he enters that place with permission. Just have a very close eye on him IF something bad happens. Such as he RDMing people in D2/P6, or him getting RDMed by anyone else for his loot, etc etc. But as long as these things ain't happen, then let the CCA deal with the situation ICly.
So, when you see something happen, watch it closely so you can jump in the moment something bad happens. But stay out of it if it could be solved ICly.
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But I'm saying, don't do stuff to prevent rules that MIGHT be broken. An admin should step in if bad things happen, but I'd appreciate if there was less preventing of roleplay simply because theres a possibility rules could end up being broken. I mean technically, there's a possibility to break rules in any situation.
thats perfectly fine and nickneros idea is valid, but you cant always just look at it as 'walking into restricted zone', he might be metagaming something etc etc
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But I'm saying, don't do stuff to prevent rules that MIGHT be broken. An admin should step in if bad things happen, but I'd appreciate if there was less preventing of roleplay simply because theres a possibility rules could end up being broken. I mean technically, there's a possibility to break rules in any situation.
thats perfectly fine and nickneros idea is valid, but you cant always just look at it as 'walking into restricted zone', he might be metagaming something etc etc
then deal with it AFTER the fact imo
admins should not be preventing roleplay because they have a suspicion something bad COULD happen. obviously if someone starts propkilling or rdming, then an admin stepping in is fine. But that whole idea is like me being a cop and saying, "oh, i think that this guy could possibly go steal this person's purse, so i better just arrest him now so that doesnt happen".
if an admin has reasonable reason to suspect that a bad thing is going to go down, then yes, follow them, talk to them, etc. But please don't have this whole mentality that you're going to just put a barrier on certain things because of a potential for bad things to happen. And besides, units got propkilled pretty frequently in D1, so should we stop them from going there lol? It's really not difficult to check logs to make sure that the correct people get punished/refunded/etc
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i think the lines of "ic is ic" is pretty much the relevant tl;dr of this thread
administration shouldn't be involved in something unless actual server rules are broken
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i think the lines of "ic is ic" is pretty much the relevant tl;dr of this thread
administration shouldn't be involved in something unless actual server rules are broken
but admins often linger on the edge of involvement because rules can be broken very easily in certain situations
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but admins often linger on the edge of involvement because rules can be broken very easily in certain situations
ok let's say a unit goes rogue because his best friend who was also a unit was shot in the face by his superiors for accepting bribes
rather than administration flying in and physgunning the unit who's about to walk into d6 because he doesn't have adequate authorisations for going rogue they should just ~observe~ the roleplay and see how it unfolds and provided the unit doesn't take out a gun and start rdm'ing people without rp i don't see why they need to be involved
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but admins often linger on the edge of involvement because rules can be broken very easily in certain situations
ok let's say a unit goes rogue because his best friend who was also a unit was shot in the face by his superiors for accepting bribes
rather than administration flying in and physgunning the unit who's about to walk into d6 because he doesn't have adequate authorisations for going rogue they should just ~observe~ the roleplay and see how it unfolds and provided the unit doesn't take out a gun and start rdm'ing people without rp i don't see why they need to be involved
rogue units should require auths and even then should be very strict, we shouldnt just allow it and see what happens
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but admins often linger on the edge of involvement because rules can be broken very easily in certain situations
ok let's say a unit goes rogue because his best friend who was also a unit was shot in the face by his superiors for accepting bribes
rather than administration flying in and physgunning the unit who's about to walk into d6 because he doesn't have adequate authorisations for going rogue they should just ~observe~ the roleplay and see how it unfolds and provided the unit doesn't take out a gun and start rdm'ing people without rp i don't see why they need to be involved
the thing is, in my mind, id rather a unit who wants to go crazee and leave the cca and go d6 for some reason should get proper auths first so the admins know beforehand, rather then having too suddenly see a unit run into d6 and you have no idea why this nigga just ran into d6 and he has a gun and he could do anything damn what might happen
id rather we have to make people do auths rather than they do it anyway because that pretty much means rules wont be broken for sure, rather than theres always a chance this unit is gonna take out his gun and blast people or someone is gonna prop kill him for his gun or whatever and we don't know cause no one told us
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but admins often linger on the edge of involvement because rules can be broken very easily in certain situations
ok let's say a unit goes rogue because his best friend who was also a unit was shot in the face by his superiors for accepting bribes
rather than administration flying in and physgunning the unit who's about to walk into d6 because he doesn't have adequate authorisations for going rogue they should just ~observe~ the roleplay and see how it unfolds and provided the unit doesn't take out a gun and start rdm'ing people without rp i don't see why they need to be involved
the thing is, in my mind, id rather a unit who wants to go crazee and leave the cca and go d6 for some reason should get proper auths first so the admins know beforehand, rather then having too suddenly see a unit run into d6 and you have no idea why this nigga just ran into d6 and he has a gun and he could do anything damn what might happen
id rather we have to make people do auths rather than they do it anyway because that pretty much means rules wont be broken for sure, rather than theres always a chance this unit is gonna take out his gun and blast people or someone is gonna prop kill him for his gun or whatever and we don't know cause no one told us
im still not understanding why you guys think its okay to step in and do all this stuff to prevent issues when you have no idea whats going to happen. I get that you dont want rules to be broken, but you're also preventing roleplay from being able to flow naturally and realistically. basically, the reasoning for admins getting involved in stuff (like units going into d6 for example), is that you want to prevent rules from being broken. Yet rules being broken isnt location restricted, nor is it restricted to certain people/roleplay scenarios. people propkilled in the main districts way more than in d6. people also mingeran and did other stupid shit in d6 because they knew thats where they'd get the most attention. realistically, chances are that anything bad that goes on in d6 anyways in terms of rulebreaking wouldnt have done that much damage because the true minges/rulebreakers rarely ever went there
also, how is saying "hey unit, dont go in d6" going to prevent him from rdming a bunch of people? he could do that just as easily anywhere else
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even if he was propkilled 9mms dont spawn with ammo and im pretty sure the admin who didn't need to give auths can ban the prop rdm'er instead
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still going to stick with no to allowing a unit to go rogue in general unless he has authorisation from say, the owner, like it used to be
rogue units only cause trouble, IC and OOC
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even if he was propkilled 9mms dont spawn with ammo and im pretty sure the admin who didn't need to give auths can ban the prop rdm'er instead
or we could just make sure all admins are aware beforehand so at least one person can watch it and stop it before it happens
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even if he was propkilled 9mms dont spawn with ammo and im pretty sure the admin who didn't need to give auths can ban the prop rdm'er instead
or we could just make sure all admins are aware beforehand so at least one person can watch it and stop it before it happens
so why allow units to go into d1 because thats preventing propkilling from happening also
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even if he was propkilled 9mms dont spawn with ammo and im pretty sure the admin who didn't need to give auths can ban the prop rdm'er instead
or we could just make sure all admins are aware beforehand so at least one person can watch it and stop it before it happens
so why allow units to go into d1 because thats preventing propkilling from happening also
because it's much less likely to happen in d1 where there are probably at least 1/2 units patrolling and 2/3 sat on the steps as well as other citizens to witness it
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what do other players have to do with it when its an administrator issue
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what do other players have to do with it when its an administrator issue
it doesnt
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my favourite bit is when i walked into a room and an admin looks at me and toggles observer to see my name
omg this was hilarious. admins abusing their powers left and right with this
Anywho, you shouldn't require auths to go rouge. Like what lone said, a cop wouldn't arrest someone just because he /thinks/ something bad is going to happen. If something bad happens which breaks the rules, then deal with it, otherwise, let the playerbase do what they want. Admins have no right to be involved in stepping between roleplay and the playerbase. They should be there only to stop rule breakers and nothing else. If some unit goes rouge IC'ly I /highly/ doubt they'd RDM everyone in D6, as it makes no sense. Perhaps it would make sense to kill the guy who killed your best friend, but slaughtering citizens? Either way, if it's actual RDM, ban them. If no one is RDM'ing/rule breaking, then don't bother anyone.
tl;dr Stop going off the assumption of "what could". Live and let live. If something bad happens, deal with it then.
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I don't think the fear with units going rogue was that they would abuse their weapons and start RDMing people; I think it had more to do with units who would be, "omg i got a bm, time to go roge". While I have no problem with units going rogue, I just hope that something is done if someone does it for an illegitimate reason.
Another reason Rogue CPs were so tightly controlled was because the last unit to go rogue (501 I think his digits were) powergamed and Mary Sue'd the shit out of every OTA strike team sent to capture him. If rogue units were to be left unregulated, the most that could be done is to not give them as much leeway. After all, they have biochips implanted, and even if they get the courage to cut it out of their bodies, I highly doubt any rebel with two brain cells would be inclined to help someone who would have gladly beat the shit out of them the day before. Plus, leather boots and bullet-proof vests are all the rage in rebel fashion circles... ;)
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this thread is just people who haven't been admin arguing what they would do even though they've never been admin and couldn't really get it
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this thread is just people who haven't been admin arguing what they would do even though they've never been admin and couldn't really get it
i thought it was about admin standards in the new server
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this thread is just people who haven't been admin arguing what they would do even though they've never been admin and couldn't really get it
i thought it was about admin standards in the new server
its people saying what they want but also what doesn't work, people just assuming things about admining hl2rp like we can just let stuff happen and deal with it after, passive admining really doesnt work on something like hl2rp
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Wasn't around for what happened here, but how about this:
Re-instate the whole server-specific admin system. Solves it, from what I can see. However; as I said, wasn't around to get into HL2RP.
[Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S3 using Tapatalk 2.]
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Wasn't around for what happened here, but how about this:
Re-instate the whole server-specific admin system. Solves it, from what I can see. However; as I said, wasn't around to get into HL2RP.
[Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S3 using Tapatalk 2.]
hl2rp admins always were and always should be separate
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smt has a point. Most of you guys have never been administrators so you really don't know what its like on our end. Yes. We need to stop abusing observer. Yes. We need to stop intervening at the wrong times. These are issues that should have been brought up and dealt with but never were.
However, most of the admins guilty of this are no longer administrators anymore. Regardless, there will be consequences for admins doing things like that and if you see an admin go into observer and back out within a few seconds, report him/her. We have logs which can be used to determine abuse.
Is there anything else we need to do/stop doing? And no, rogue units will remain owner authorization only. It can go OP extremely quickly in the wrong hands.
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smt has a point. Most of you guys have never been administrators so you really don't know what its like on our end. Yes. We need to stop abusing observer. Yes. We need to stop intervening at the wrong times. These are issues that should have been brought up and dealt with but never were.
However, most of the admins guilty of this are no longer administrators anymore. Regardless, there will be consequences for admins doing things like that and if you see an admin go into observer and back out within a few seconds, report him/her. We have logs which can be used to determine abuse.
Is there anything else we need to do/stop doing? And no, rogue units will remain owner authorization only. It can go OP extremely quickly in the wrong hands.
"most of the admins"
Maybe you should finish off the rest before the server re-opens for the good of the playerbase?
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However, most of the admins guilty of this are no longer administrators anymore.
who are these then, please enlighten us lord statua
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Now I really think about it. An important factor that should be kept in mind is that units who go into S6 usually just hand over weapons and shit to citizens and then THEY cause the trouble. Since units who don't give a fuck anyway, and still have direct access to the armory...
And that is something admins can't just magically fix after it already happened. So the best way for this situation would have been preventing it in the first place.
So yeah, it purely depends on the situation if it is best to stop the unit from going into S6, or let him be dealt with ICly. (And this whole unit-into-S6 is just one example of the many things admins have to deal with in a daily basis.)
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nick when was the last time you actively played hl2rp
i dont think that is a problem anymore or even needs to be discussed, seeing as it's been in tight control for a long time
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However, most of the admins guilty of this are no longer administrators anymore.
who are these then, please enlighten us lord statua
i dont remember their names and if i did, i wouldn't disclose them anyway.
As for the rest, i merely said that as a disclaimer since i dont know who all did it. I just know there were people doing it and those who are still on the roster don't ring any bells.
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pretty much everyone did it
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However, most of the admins guilty of this are no longer administrators anymore.
who are these then, please enlighten us lord statua
i dont remember their names and if i did, i wouldn't disclose them anyway.
As for the rest, i merely said that as a disclaimer since i dont know who all did it. I just know there were people doing it and those who are still on the roster don't ring any bells.
"I made a blanket statement and don't know what I'm saying." Thanks for the input.
Post Auto-Merged: January 15, 2014, 12:28:53 PM
Appointing someone to the position of administrator is always a risk. You can never know for certain whether that person will abuse their powers. Most administrators who have served at Catalyst Gaming have never caused problems. Most suggestions that are made for administration do not take into the account the realities and difficulties of administrating, because the people who suggest them have never administrated at all or certainly not in stressful situations.
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pretty much everyone did it
no they didnt, i can think of the odd few that did do it and as statua said, no longer on admin team plus they suffered with severe stupidity anyway to be frank
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every hl2rp admin i've seen did it at least once including me, its something you don't even think about a lot of the time, don't think i ever did it on citizens but on my cca i did a lot for sure, esp. when on UED and im checkin 4 sneaky admins flying around me
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the problem here is the fact that people are expecting smooth roleplay where passive admin happens which is obviously, the best scenario and is what as admins is a good situation also
the thing you guys need to realise is that due to cg's playerbase that used to be on the server that couldnt happen, and for a fact when it starts again its not going to be 100% trustworthy people (if it is, props to cg) so we had to watch etc and pull people aside as we didnt know everybody in the server and what they were likely to do. its a fine line between immersion and making sure rules aren't broken.
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I admit to intervening when I shouldn't have so what smt says might be true.
Are we going to keep bickering about something that happened in the past which will be addressed and handled in the future?
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I admit to intervening when I shouldn't have so what smt says might be true.
Are we going to keep bickering about something that happened in the past which will be addressed and handled in the future?
its called discussing in a thread about administration lol
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Now I really think about it. An important factor that should be kept in mind is that units who go into S6 usually just hand over weapons and shit to citizens and then THEY cause the trouble. Since units who don't give a fuck anyway, and still have direct access to the armory...
And that is something admins can't just magically fix after it already happened. So the best way for this situation would have been preventing it in the first place.
What if I am fully aware of what I am doing as a unit and am just a double agent/corrupt unit who likes making tokens on the side and just a fool hardy, selfish punk who only joined the CCA for better food and not to get beat up all the time? No real allegiance to the Union but just clever enough to make it past screening? At that point I'm ICly handing out weapons and shit to citizens, so where exactly does the line begin?
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Whether or not this was an official thing, there was a player class in the tab menu called admin, which normally had an odd player model to make this stick out if you was visited by a no-clipping (most of the time Gman). The character names were usually [CG-A]John or [CG-SA] Nick.
They were easily noticed on the scoreboard which made it easy to PM them with problems (rather than find the digits of a CCA number of an admin). Also because they were on this "admin character" and not a unit or a citizen, they could go out of their way to teach new players and/or discuss fallouts between players.
If it were possible you could have an admin on one of these characters as often as possible to be there as the single point of contact, of course that would mean they would be missing out on RP for some time but ultimately they could organise a swap out with another admin at some point.
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can we please back on track, this has nothing to do with how rogue units are going to work, this is about how admins go about their duties in the server
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rogue units should work how they worked before
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can we please back on track, this has nothing to do with how rogue units are going to work, this is about how admins go about their duties in the server
It was used as example for when admins should or should not interfere with it. Hence it was completely on track.
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