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Backup Sections => HL2RP Development[ARCHIVE] => Suggestions => Topic started by: raged on January 04, 2014, 12:20:17 AM

Title: allow more weapons into the server
Post by: raged on January 04, 2014, 12:20:17 AM
~this is coming from the guy who led zealot and had to kill people with guns~

~i will use grammar~

Okay, so. The jest of this proposal is that in its entirety there was virtually little to no circulation of weapons in the economy within the city server during the later stages of CG HL2RP. The reason for this would've likely derived from the administration team not wanting minges to obtain weapons. Seems fair enough.

But when you look at the reality of things, and in particular a post-apocalyptic society that is ruled by an oppressive and dictatorial force that restricts what people can and what people can't do; there's surely going to be a large network of black market goods being exchanged on intercity and external levels. I'm not talking just about weapons but forbidden goods like chocolate or alcohol or pre-war goods that are virtually non-existent in the post seven hour war society. If people want something then there will be some form of organised crime willing to provide that service. So why shouldn't that include weapons? I agree that there should be some form of OOC weapon control in that I wouldn't want to see mass numbers of shotguns and mp7's being churned out and handed out like candy, but at the same time I feel that previously there was too much admin intervention in such matters.

I raise the point above of me leading ZEALOT because I was the one who had to deal with resistance operating in the city. As virtually nobody could obtain a weapon unless they had some affiliation with a known resistance group (eg, third eye) or administrators, practically anything that happened in the city warranted the justification 'resistance' rather than some petty theft or mugging or low time criminal. Realistically things wouldn't run in such a way, because organisations such as ZEALOT would be too occupied with dealing with terrorist like organisations rather than simple muggings. As a result your average civil protection officer would on a day-to-day basis deal with practically nothing and thus lead to the eventual conclusion of them becoming bored. Likewise, with the citizen faction of CG HL2RP, removing weapons removes a large variety of roleplay that can occur outside of the simple 'shotcop' that everybody immediately jumps to.

tl;dr
- introduce more guns
- guns make roleplay (ironically enough)
- not having things tipped 100% towards the CCA or 100% towards organised resistance makes the server more dynamic rather than having static gameplay with little to no unorganised events/situations
- restricting guns creates elitism
Title: Re: allow more weapons into the server
Post by: Statua on January 04, 2014, 03:40:39 AM
I'd like to see a full on black market run well and realistically in the city, yet for the sake of continuity and to keep zealot busy, will never fully die.
Title: Re: allow more weapons into the server
Post by: raged on January 04, 2014, 04:20:49 AM
I'd like to see a full on black market run well and realistically in the city, yet for the sake of continuity and to keep zealot busy, will never fully die.

i didnt plan on running zealot to ensure a black market would exist, however that's not going to happen if every man and his dog has contraband flags again and blackmarket flags were virtually non existent besides like ozjackal and one other

they should be issued to organisations that have the resources/means/motivations to produce the products
Title: Re: allow more weapons into the server
Post by: Statua on January 04, 2014, 02:51:22 PM
By black market I don't mean just flags. I mean an entire faction/group running it with its own systems and stuff.
Title: Re: allow more weapons into the server
Post by: smt on January 04, 2014, 03:26:24 PM
By black market I don't mean just flags. I mean an entire faction/group running it with its own systems and stuff.

more weapons is gd but this really needs to be balanced, they cant just drop guns whenever they want, there should be like, a way to fairly limit it but not restrict it
Title: Re: allow more weapons into the server
Post by: Delta1116732 on January 04, 2014, 03:52:40 PM
Didn't we have a black market thing going with Kronic? I believe he ran a small shop where he sold stuff like contraband, and pistols for a very high price.
Title: Re: allow more weapons into the server
Post by: Anzu on January 04, 2014, 04:09:22 PM
Didn't we have a black market thing going with Kronic? I believe he ran a small shop where he sold stuff like contraband, and pistols for a very high price.

I don't think that ever got to be anything, it was just planned
Title: Re: allow more weapons into the server
Post by: rBST Cow on January 04, 2014, 04:33:35 PM
I guess it could be a good idea to introduce more weapons and have less admin intervention with them, but if it gets to the point where it's similar to outlands, then pls no. If someone wants to RDM they are going to RDM, it's just going to happen. If they are truly destined on doing it, they are going to find a way to do it.
Title: Re: allow more weapons into the server
Post by: Cat With A Mustache on January 04, 2014, 04:48:52 PM
One of the reasons that I liked the old HL2RP server was the lack of guns (kinda). Not everyone could threaten others for tokens or whatever, and it made some sense. I don't even know how one would get a gun inside of a City with Unit's Patrolling everywhich direction. However then there was the drawback, of those that had guns would pretty much just rule the P3 district, doing whatever they like. So lik 'smt' said, the distribution of weapons should be increased, but monoitored so every other new citizen dosen't get thier hands on one, and start to; 'Fuck-shit-up'.
Title: Re: allow more weapons into the server
Post by: raged on January 04, 2014, 07:41:24 PM
Didn't we have a black market thing going with Kronic? I believe he ran a small shop where he sold stuff like contraband, and pistols for a very high price.

yes but all he did was asspull them and say his "supplies will arrive in 2 days", i'm talking about actually roleplaying manufacturing the weapons and then having to relocate them to the city which is what i wanted to get going this time around with the server
Title: Re: allow more weapons into the server
Post by: rBST Cow on January 04, 2014, 09:27:23 PM
Didn't we have a black market thing going with Kronic? I believe he ran a small shop where he sold stuff like contraband, and pistols for a very high price.

yes but all he did was asspull them and say his "supplies will arrive in 2 days", i'm talking about actually roleplaying manufacturing the weapons and then having to relocate them to the city which is what i wanted to get going this time around with the server

I imagine the weapons would be shit-tier? At least until outlands comes around so the manufacturers can get better materials?
Title: Re: allow more weapons into the server
Post by: raged on January 04, 2014, 10:28:34 PM

I imagine the weapons would be shit-tier? At least until outlands comes around so the manufacturers can get better materials?

having outlands wouldn't have anything to do with it unless a pre-war weapons factory was recovered and put into working condition and it'd probably get bombed in a week

i was talking more like repairing pre-war ones or IC'ly raiding storage houses and hocking them off as new
Title: Re: allow more weapons into the server
Post by: Nicknero on January 05, 2014, 05:10:28 AM
I support this thread.

I know very well how weapons within the 'lolrebels' really defines elitism due to the fact it is/was extremely difficult to come by. So people aught to feel special if they had a weapon.

I really like the idea of some kind of black market organization that takes care of weapon circulation in the City. Although there still have to be limits because I don't want to see anyone walking around with 20 weapons on their back acting like a tank.
Title: Re: allow more weapons into the server
Post by: smt on January 05, 2014, 05:18:41 AM
im fine with more guns i just dont wanna see p1 turn into like late 80s compton or something
Title: Re: allow more weapons into the server
Post by: Teitoku Ippan on January 05, 2014, 05:40:50 AM
im fine with more guns and having guns in district 1 as long as people arent being extremely retarded with them like going around plaza shooting cps randomly etc like its some sort of gang war server or some shit
Title: Re: allow more weapons into the server
Post by: raged on January 05, 2014, 06:39:08 AM
im fine with more guns and having guns in district 1 as long as people arent being extremely retarded with them like going around plaza shooting cps randomly etc like its some sort of gang war server or some shit

that would probably fall under an administration issue rather than an IC issue
Title: Re: allow more weapons into the server
Post by: Teitoku Ippan on January 05, 2014, 06:41:41 AM
im fine with more guns and having guns in district 1 as long as people arent being extremely retarded with them like going around plaza shooting cps randomly etc like its some sort of gang war server or some shit

that would probably fall under an administration issue rather than an IC issue

yeah admins would have to deal with that if it happens
Title: Re: allow more weapons into the server
Post by: Yak on January 06, 2014, 04:35:24 AM
Didn't we have a black market thing going with Kronic? I believe he ran a small shop where he sold stuff like contraband, and pistols for a very high price.
hl2rp-inactive owner selling guns for high price
yeah nah

i agree with a influx of pistols, but ensuring that not one group are the only ones able to provide such a service and will probably end up getting bribed not to supply x group.
Title: Re: allow more weapons into the server
Post by: alaskan thunderfuck on January 07, 2014, 03:15:51 AM
long as guns stay in p2, s6, whatever it's called on the map we use I don't mind having more then we had in circulation. regardless, they still need to be rare.
Title: Re: allow more weapons into the server
Post by: Lone Wanderer on January 08, 2014, 12:45:33 AM
Easy; just have people that can be trusted be given flags for that kind of stuff, and maybe make purchases of weapons, transfers, uses, etc, very noticeable in terms of logs. That way, any abuse of them stands out easily. Also, I think the administration keeping a close eye on things wouldn't be a bad idea.

But yeah, it seems way more realistic that there'd be some circulation of this kind of stuff.
Title: Re: allow more weapons into the server
Post by: Mr. Pettit on January 10, 2014, 05:30:45 AM
I just think weapons overall is a good idea. I mean looking back, people had applications for things like small rusty knives and shivs they made because of how scarce weapons were. Now if you were to do two things to get the best of the two, I think it would work:

1. Be more lenient with the weapons, add more than current "Vanilla" ones. Allow more to be circulated but make ammo even more uncommon (maybe). That way people don't go crazy with what they have, and they can also just use it as a threatening stick if they don't have any rounds to spare.
2. Melee / projectile weapons - Again, I don't know how this would work but it gives people defensive capabilities in the Outlands and City's non-patrolled areas. Things like knifes, shovels, bows, bats whatever. Could get out of hand- Don't want any Daryl Dixons running around with a bow.

Some on each page ---- (http://steamcommunity.com/id/ifenerv/myworkshopfiles/?appid=4000&p=1)    All of these FA:S ones are pretty nice and diverse. Shotguns and bolt actions require your to hit R each time to chamber a new round so that makes it a little more immersive and time consuming in an engagement. Also, almost all of them have attachments and modifications like different sights, silencers, stocks, ammunition amounts and so on.
Title: Re: allow more weapons into the server
Post by: wag1 on January 10, 2014, 10:55:01 AM
ic should be ic


if the cca is good at keeping weapons out of the city then there shouldnt be much guns in the city

ie. there are about like 5 guns in the city to start, two dealers (real circulation not ass spawns). cca looks for leads, finding guns and tracing them back to the source

it seems funner if theres a cause and effect dynamic system rather then just spawning guns
Title: Re: allow more weapons into the server
Post by: smt on January 10, 2014, 11:02:47 AM
ic should be ic


if the cca is good at keeping weapons out of the city then there shouldnt be much guns in the city

ie. there are about like 5 guns in the city to start, two dealers (real circulation not ass spawns). cca looks for leads, finding guns and tracing them back to the source

it seems funner if theres a cause and effect dynamic system rather then just spawning guns

u can tell when bluff isnt high cos he posts stuff that makes sense like this

but its how it should be anyway, let there be a really small amount of dealers to set things off and some how allow very slowly more people to get guns through these dealers, admins should only need to step in if p2/whatever turns into a battlefield or if too many guns end up in p1 (i really dislike the idea of guns in p1 at all cause its just gonna bring problems and not much good rp)

but generally it shouldnt need ooc help or control as long as it's all done legit, if people are too obvious with guns then cca is gonna clamp down on it and the real effect should be that rebels/rebuls/anti-cca chars are gonna have less guns circulating, it should be straight up cause n effect and if you abuse ur guns and try mug cps 24/7 then the cca should increase their security and control over everything (which might finally give loyalists a reason to try and persuade people to be good to the cca so they are more free)
Title: Re: allow more weapons into the server
Post by: [LP]GMK-MRL on January 10, 2014, 03:16:30 PM
I still don't think we should restrict places in where we can remove our weapons.

If people want to RP removing a weapon in the middle of plaza, let them get gunned down. Not your fault if they die. It's only theirs. Need to take responsibility for their own actions.
Title: Re: allow more weapons into the server
Post by: Somone77 on January 10, 2014, 04:49:12 PM
I still don't think we should restrict places in where we can remove our weapons.

If people want to RP removing a weapon in the middle of plaza, let them get gunned down. Not your fault if they die. It's only theirs. Need to take responsibility for their own actions.

I agree with this. If you think stupid people remove your immersion to RP, how does an admin noclipping in and physgunning him away sound?
Title: Re: allow more weapons into the server
Post by: smt on January 10, 2014, 04:52:49 PM
well i mean, i'd rather an admin physgunned someone away who wants to pull out a gun and start randomly killing everyone in the plaza, but i'd not like an admin to do the same if it was properly rp'd, my point is more that knowing combine technology how/why would a gun even find its way into p1 and right outside the nexus, thats pretty unrealistic to begin with
Title: Re: allow more weapons into the server
Post by: raged on January 10, 2014, 07:26:54 PM
if an admin intervened i'd rather it be for rule breaking issues like "you need a valid reason to kill somebody" than "you're not allowed a weapon in p1"

what if a drug dealer decided to go into p1 for business and he gets sprung and he goes for his pistol as a last defence and an admin sits there going "no you cant do that"
Title: Re: allow more weapons into the server
Post by: rBST Cow on January 10, 2014, 08:10:44 PM
if an admin intervened i'd rather it be for rule breaking issues like "you need a valid reason to kill somebody" than "you're not allowed a weapon in p1"

what if a drug dealer decided to go into p1 for business and he gets sprung and he goes for his pistol as a last defence and an admin sits there going "no you cant do that"

I believe their was one scenario were KMP tried to kill my Kyle Brown character in plaza, but due to the circumstances it was ok for me to use my MP7 in plaza(it was kinda by the D6 gate thingy on the old C45 map).

I think guns should be allowed in plaza, BUT ONLY if the gun holder is in a life or death situation/CP's are banging on his apartment door because they know whats up and yea.


well i mean, i'd rather an admin physgunned someone away who wants to pull out a gun and start randomly killing everyone in the plaza, but i'd not like an admin to do the same if it was properly rp'd, my point is more that knowing combine technology how/why would a gun even find its way into p1 and right outside the nexus, thats pretty unrealistic to begin with

RDM is against server rules so he'd get banned if he started randomly killing people, that simple.
Title: Re: allow more weapons into the server
Post by: smt on January 10, 2014, 08:14:42 PM
well i mean, i'd rather an admin physgunned someone away who wants to pull out a gun and start randomly killing everyone in the plaza, but i'd not like an admin to do the same if it was properly rp'd, my point is more that knowing combine technology how/why would a gun even find its way into p1 and right outside the nexus, thats pretty unrealistic to begin with

RDM is against server rules so he'd get banned if he started randomly killing people, that simple.

obviously but i was responding to somone77, i'd rather an admin interrupted someone he knew/was very sure was going to rdm rather than let it happen even if its "more interruptive"
Title: Re: allow more weapons into the server
Post by: Yak on January 10, 2014, 08:28:47 PM
can we speak on ic not administrative duty
Title: Re: allow more weapons into the server
Post by: |T??G| Saimon-avatar on January 10, 2014, 09:42:55 PM
Weapons shouldn't be restricted to any part of the city. That's un-realistic. Why wouldn't someone be able to draw his pistol in the plaza in case of life or death? You said that combine technology wouldn't let you pass a gun to the plaza? Can combine technology smell the weapons of someone that owns one? I don't think so, people can hide them and keep them safe from the combine (Not big weapons though, just the small ones). I don't know if this is right, but I was one of short list of people who owned a pistol and a MP7 back at the city. Never abused it and never took them out as I knew it dragged way to many attention.

The idea of a small small BMD system is pretty fine. There are always ways on getting stuff into the city and out of the city into the outlands. It's just hard, but it can be done. I don't see a reason to why BMD at the city were non-existent. Personally I never saw any BMD's at the city. Only experienced RPers should have the chance to try this BMD experience.
Title: Re: allow more weapons into the server
Post by: smt on January 10, 2014, 09:46:26 PM
Quote
Can combine technology smell the weapons of someone that owns one? I don't think so, people can hide them and keep them safe from the combine (Not big weapons though, just the small ones).

no but im fairly sure they at least have metal detectors
Title: Re: allow more weapons into the server
Post by: Yak on January 10, 2014, 09:53:07 PM
im yet to see you guys run a metal detector checkpoint thus you dont
cca have unlimited resources, its very easy to say you atleast have anything
Title: Re: allow more weapons into the server
Post by: smt on January 10, 2014, 09:53:37 PM
im yet to see you guys run a metal detector checkpoint thus you dont
cca have unlimited resources, its very easy to say you atleast have anything

because no one will rp it lol
Title: Re: allow more weapons into the server
Post by: |T??G| Saimon-avatar on January 10, 2014, 10:08:20 PM
Quote
Can combine technology smell the weapons of someone that owns one? I don't think so, people can hide them and keep them safe from the combine (Not big weapons though, just the small ones).

no but im fairly sure they at least have metal detectors

Yes they do but there are no metal detectors in each door... Besides, there should be ways to avoid metal detectors or X-ray things
Title: Re: allow more weapons into the server
Post by: [LP]GMK-MRL on January 10, 2014, 11:46:17 PM
if an admin intervened i'd rather it be for rule breaking issues like "you need a valid reason to kill somebody" than "you're not allowed a weapon in p1"

what if a drug dealer decided to go into p1 for business and he gets sprung and he goes for his pistol as a last defence and an admin sits there going "no you cant do that"

I believe their was one scenario were KMP tried to kill my Kyle Brown character in plaza, but due to the circumstances it was ok for me to use my MP7 in plaza(it was kinda by the D6 gate thingy on the old C45 map).

I think guns should be allowed in plaza, BUT ONLY if the gun holder is in a life or death situation/CP's are banging on his apartment door because they know whats up and yea.


well i mean, i'd rather an admin physgunned someone away who wants to pull out a gun and start randomly killing everyone in the plaza, but i'd not like an admin to do the same if it was properly rp'd, my point is more that knowing combine technology how/why would a gun even find its way into p1 and right outside the nexus, thats pretty unrealistic to begin with

RDM is against server rules so he'd get banned if he started randomly killing people, that simple.

When I mean no restrictions, I mean no restrictions. No on one condition bullshit. Let them take it out and get gunned down for being dumbasses. If they decide to RDM, they'll get banned. Simple. You never know if someone asked for the death of another and that other is in Plaza, thus bringing probable cause for their death.
Title: Re: allow more weapons into the server
Post by: rBST Cow on January 10, 2014, 11:56:36 PM
if an admin intervened i'd rather it be for rule breaking issues like "you need a valid reason to kill somebody" than "you're not allowed a weapon in p1"

what if a drug dealer decided to go into p1 for business and he gets sprung and he goes for his pistol as a last defence and an admin sits there going "no you cant do that"

I believe their was one scenario were KMP tried to kill my Kyle Brown character in plaza, but due to the circumstances it was ok for me to use my MP7 in plaza(it was kinda by the D6 gate thingy on the old C45 map).

I think guns should be allowed in plaza, BUT ONLY if the gun holder is in a life or death situation/CP's are banging on his apartment door because they know whats up and yea.


well i mean, i'd rather an admin physgunned someone away who wants to pull out a gun and start randomly killing everyone in the plaza, but i'd not like an admin to do the same if it was properly rp'd, my point is more that knowing combine technology how/why would a gun even find its way into p1 and right outside the nexus, thats pretty unrealistic to begin with

RDM is against server rules so he'd get banned if he started randomly killing people, that simple.

When I mean no restrictions, I mean no restrictions. No on one condition bullshit. Let them take it out and get gunned down for being dumbasses. If they decide to RDM, they'll get banned. Simple. You never know if someone asked for the death of another and that other is in Plaza, thus bringing probable cause for their death.

As long as a strict "No ruining PassiveRP" rule is put into place, so you can't just walk up to some guy selling books at his shop and kill him, then I suppose it would be ok...I dunno, I still don't like it.

Life or death situations, or with admin approval in other instances, is where I stand on the situation with guns in P1 and that's all I have to say further about the matter.
Title: Re: allow more weapons into the server
Post by: Lone Wanderer on January 11, 2014, 12:51:54 AM
Don't restrict guns to certain areas, as thats just ruining the immersion/realism of the roleplay. If someone is going to be retarded enough to use their gun in a precinct full of units/cameras/citizens, then thats kind of their own dumb decision to make. If they break fearRP or some other form of rule violation, then an admin can step in and deal with that. But dont just automatically say 'Hey, you can't use this here before we don't want to have to deal with possible issues'. If they want to be dumb enough to use a gun in the plaza, then get killed for it, there's a good character they put effort into down the drain.


Also, if respectable/trustworthy people are the one's who are getting weapons, this shouldn't really be an issue we have to deal with. I'm sure that the kind of people we'd be allowing to have guns through this system would not just run into the plaza, pull out a SMG, and start shooting.
Title: Re: allow more weapons into the server
Post by: [LP]GMK-MRL on January 11, 2014, 01:00:15 AM
if an admin intervened i'd rather it be for rule breaking issues like "you need a valid reason to kill somebody" than "you're not allowed a weapon in p1"

what if a drug dealer decided to go into p1 for business and he gets sprung and he goes for his pistol as a last defence and an admin sits there going "no you cant do that"

I believe their was one scenario were KMP tried to kill my Kyle Brown character in plaza, but due to the circumstances it was ok for me to use my MP7 in plaza(it was kinda by the D6 gate thingy on the old C45 map).

I think guns should be allowed in plaza, BUT ONLY if the gun holder is in a life or death situation/CP's are banging on his apartment door because they know whats up and yea.


well i mean, i'd rather an admin physgunned someone away who wants to pull out a gun and start randomly killing everyone in the plaza, but i'd not like an admin to do the same if it was properly rp'd, my point is more that knowing combine technology how/why would a gun even find its way into p1 and right outside the nexus, thats pretty unrealistic to begin with

RDM is against server rules so he'd get banned if he started randomly killing people, that simple.

When I mean no restrictions, I mean no restrictions. No on one condition bullshit. Let them take it out and get gunned down for being dumbasses. If they decide to RDM, they'll get banned. Simple. You never know if someone asked for the death of another and that other is in Plaza, thus bringing probable cause for their death.

As long as a strict "No ruining PassiveRP" rule is put into place, so you can't just walk up to some guy selling books at his shop and kill him, then I suppose it would be ok...I dunno, I still don't like it.

Life or death situations, or with admin approval in other instances, is where I stand on the situation with guns in P1 and that's all I have to say further about the matter.

the only rule that should be involving guns is no rdm imo. how they use it, is how they use it. passive rp can be interrupted due to an assassination, that's part of the point of an assassination, it all depends on how desperate the person is.
Title: Re: allow more weapons into the server
Post by: smt on January 11, 2014, 01:13:51 AM
the main districts in hl2 were not filled with guns and we're even further before that
Title: Re: allow more weapons into the server
Post by: Lone Wanderer on January 11, 2014, 01:15:37 AM
the main districts in hl2 were not filled with guns and we're even further before that

we're not sayingthey should be filled with guns, but there shouldnt be a physical rule that prevents people from bringing out guns in the main districts. The cca are there to deal with those issues, not the administration. If they break a rp rule somehow in the process, then the administration can step in, but other wise they should leave it
Title: Re: allow more weapons into the server
Post by: Sexy Frog on January 11, 2014, 01:27:23 PM
This has really always been a general issue with administration. Not knowing when to not intervene. Unless server rules are broken, at no point should administration intervene in RP. We've said this thousands of times before the server went down and people are even saying it now. Just because you don't like a turn of events doesn't give you the right to put a stop to it. You're simply putting an unrealistic and unfair bottle neck on Roleplay. In Character is In Character. That's how it has always been and that is how it always should be.

If people want to take their weapons into P1, let them do so. They should know the consequences of their actions full well and be prepared to face them in the event of being discovered and at no point should they complain afterwards since it's their own fault. CCA getting mugged or kidnapped or killed? Well, obviously if that's happening then the CCA aren't doing enough to crack down on crime and they need to step up their game to prevent it from continuing. Stepping in OOCly for ICly means should always be a big no no. Having dynamic and mostly player driven environments is fun. Nazi dictatorships by administration where you need auths for doing everything is not.
Title: Re: allow more weapons into the server
Post by: |T??G| Saimon-avatar on January 11, 2014, 02:50:58 PM
You are all correct on letting trustworthy players obtain guns and letting them use them when ever they need to and anywhere they want. Its part of the combine roleplay to avoid this kind of disasters. Although, I do remember a loooong time that someone had a character named Clyde or Cycle something like that, the point is that he was a good RPer and people trusted in him... He had access to guns in the city but he went out of control, every now and then he used to go to the plaza just to randomly shoot at CPs with the excuse of -fighting the combine-

This kind of situations should be managed by the Administrator team and gun regulation should be managed by the Civil Protection.
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