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Half-Life 2 Roleplay => Topic started by: Doctor Nice roButt on March 28, 2013, 04:42:31 PM
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Just something I want to bring up or make known or w/e. My opinion with how we treat High Command and how we restrict them, which I was discussing with Jonco. I haven't typed up a formal post because I felt like what I said then summed it up.
Beware, there is walls of text.
Toxic Zombie: I understand the whole brainwash rp and you don't want a bunch of rogue units running around, but when it gets to the point where a character is not allowed its own opinion or emotions, the player starts to get bored. Airborne, and even sexy frog, has told me many times on how high command rp is boring. One of the reasons, I think, is that we leave no room for character development. Sure, high ranking characters don't get as much development as, say, a recruit, but there is still room for new and interesting rp that can add to a character. By taking away any room for change or new things, we make rp for those players very boring and stale. No one wants to play a character that stands around all day, orders units, and isn't allowed to think. If we want emotionless yes men to run the CCA, just get an OTA to do it. Both sexy and airborne have shared there dislike of being high command, saying that its getting boring and there's nothing to do. Then airborne goes out and tries to make a new and interesting rp that could add to both of our characters and he's shot down immediately. After the rp, he expressed his excitement and how he wanted to get on more often to do rp, but, now that its being voided, he says he's going to take a break from hl2rp because, like I mentioned earlier, it's incredibly boring to be high command. The whole point of rping is to have fun and make characters and grow them, but we are stifling that when any act of uniqueness is scrutinized and shot down. Yeah, maybe airborne should have checked with kronic to see if it was okay for his character to do that, but it is really disheartening when you have to get every little thing authed in order to do it. Responsible rpers shouldn't be punished for trying to spice it up. I'm not sure if this will change anything, I guess it's all up to what airborne says his characters reasons are and your decisions, but I can only hope that maybe this brings something to light.
Toxic Zombie: Sorry for wall, but yeah
Jonco: S0 is basically ota
Jonco: let me point that out
Toxic Zombie: If s0 is like OTA, why don't s0 characters act like OTA? Sexy frogs unit is s0 and acts nothing like an OTA, plus she never got auths for it
Jonco: Well, that's a different story
Jonco: Sexy Frogs unit never went through augmentation surgery
Toxic Zombie: But she was brainwashed by 158 and after the city 45 event, she had to get augmented by force. If you want s0 to be OTA, why not force all s0 to get brainwashed so the only emotion they have is fear. Or, go even further and just have OTA running the CCA. In my eyes, the reason combine don't use a robot police force is because they need people with emotions to relate to civilians and such. I'm sure they cold have a bunch of robots running around and doing their chores if they wanted, but they don't. And it's logical to want a higher ranking unit to be more loyal and less likely to defect or do things against the union, but they need to have humanity as the people below them also have theirs. OTA don't need humanity because they aren't dealing with civilians on a personal and daily basis. They aren't trying to teach them the law and keep them in line, they're there to hunt a kill. S0 are suppose to be leaders, not robots. If our canon makes them more OTA then unit, maybe we should look over it and perhaps discuss changing it
tl;dr version: We are restricting High Command's rp way too much to the point where its boring to rp as one. We need to give a bit of slack on their leashes. They are High command for a reason; we should trust their RP skill and let them have a bit of lee-way so everyone can enjoy rp. I guess.
idk
Opinions, comments, w/e
Feel free to post.
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I don't feel restricted in the slightest.
017 has personality without being borderline rogue. The S0 are supposed to be essentially Overwatch and that's okay. The Union don't want soft and emotional people leading them.
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I don't feel restricted in the slightest.
017 has personality without being borderline rogue. The S0 are supposed to be essentially Overwatch and that's okay. The Union don't want soft and emotional people leading them.
But this isn't a book; it's an rp. How fun is it to rp a robot that never changes and does the same thing everyday. I understand we need to have regulations, but it shouldn't be so harsh that it makes things a drag to do. Rp shouldn't become a job, it needs to be fun and exciting and interesting.
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I don't feel restricted in the slightest.
017 has personality without being borderline rogue. The S0 are supposed to be essentially Overwatch and that's okay. The Union don't want soft and emotional people leading them.
if s0 is essentially overwatch they have no free will
meaning all the programs they have created are void
or am i missing something here
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Overwatch in the means of what Overwatch Commanders are. ie: they can lead.
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I don't feel restricted either like Dallas. And if you're talking about 938, which I'm sure is the reason you're bringing this up there's several reasons (At least for an S0 unit from what I've asked).
- They would be loyalty checked
- Possibly brainwashed
- Augmented
With all of that, they would be augmented, tested true to be loyal to the Union and then brainwashed. My Officer 495 hasn't been brainwashed, memory replaced and has minimal augmentation. When you get to the point of S0, yes it does restrict your rp greatly. But then again it depends on how you play the role. You can have very little or a lot of involvement in your section. Have different emotions, a different process of reacting to situations and interacting with your fellow Units; It's pretty much endless how you can roleplay as a High Command unit among anything else. But yes, I do think there needs to be some freedom with this too but not just "herp derp i'm going rogue after years in the cca" but as of now that's the way it is.
And if Airborne wants to have a rogue unit, make another one and go rogue. It makes MUCH more sense compared to a Section leader who has dedicated their lives and time to the CCA. I try to present a project to him that he requested I do and just tells me It seems good because he was letting you go. That made me a bit mad.
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Jon is just using OTA as an example. S0 are brainwashed to the point where they would never betray the union. They have gone through heavy augmentations, and most have developed their personality over many in game years of service. Which means they pretty much don't care about people in the way any normal human would, but they are still, in a sense, 'part' human.
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i don't view augmentations and loyalty enforcement as having no emotions and acting like a robot, i view it as the absence of certain emotions that would hinder the calculative and reasoning ability of the unit to determine suitable responses to events, like for example not having a second thought about sacrificing fifteen units to capture a priority one AC target.
it sounds like to me you had a chat with sexy frog who's upset he can't slam his fists in CCA s0 meetings anymore because he was forcibly augmented after sustaining serious injuries that wouldn't have occured if he was augmented in the first place.
S0 are brainwashed to the point where they would never betray the union.
i would also disagree with this point as my unit has considered on several occasions of leading a coup d'etat because he felt the sectorial commander was inadequate in fulfilling their role and while that's not necessarily considered betraying the union it would still warrant a potential amputation if he was to fail.
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With the rp involving my unit aside, let me just address what augmentation is and does because appears many of you have a misguided view on it. I've led the medical division of the CCA for around 11 months or so now and I've done my fair share of augmentation surgeries. Your brain isn't switched out with a mechanical brain at any point during that surgery. Its intended that you retain your human mind and personality, which is how you've developed your character. Augments are purely physical, only increasing strength and physical aspects. My unit, to my knowledge, was never formerly brainwashed. Now, I won't lie and say he's not loyal to the Union, but throughout my unit's career, I've done things that go against what would be preferred for the sake of my character's development. My character's mind and emotions are purely human. Sure, he's a hardened veteran of the Union who has a long, distinguished service record, but he's also got his secrets and emotional moments. He's a surgeon and he chose that path as an 04 when he joined NOVA to preserve life. Its one of the 4 P's in the NOVA general principles, after all. Occasionally, he pities citizens and see's more than just something wrong in them, bringing forth emotions and emotional reactions. I've developed my character like this from the 04 level to the DvL level and I refuse to stop doing it at the CmD level.
So how does this apply to the RP that occurred with myself and toxic's character? Well for one thing, he ICly saw there was little difference in himself and toxic's character. Just as he's always fought for the Union and served it, her character fought for the people and served them. As I stated earlier, my character's mind is completely human and on very rare occasions, makes decisions that are less favorable by other units and keeps those decisions secret. This is not so unusual for 938.
Let me address another issue. I'm a super admin and I don't feel I should have to get approval to RP anything I can auth myself. And as toxic stated, upper High Command RP get's very stale over time and because of the ungodly amount of restrictions on things, upper High Command RP can never change from the same old shit every day. I decided I'd say fuck it and create a bit of unusual RP that would keep me interested in the game mode and create some different RP for someone else as well, being toxic's character. Is that so wrong? Its not like I did this RP with someone new to HL2RP, it was with a trusted member of the community, and based on my character and what's been done to them in the past, it was acceptable in my opinion and there were no flaws in the RP itself.
Anyway, I was the first to just say oh well and vote to void the RP but the other's involved in this RP were strongly against that and after speaking with them, I decided to retract my void until everything could be reviewed. Based on the statements in this thread, it appears its already been decided that this RP will be voided afterall, which is fine. Due to the events and outcome of this RP, I've become a bit annoyed with HL2RP and those of you with admin board access can see my post in the leave thread section about the time I'm taking to get away from HL2RP for a short while. I've also taken to only talking to a select group of people on steam for awhile.
To continue with the theme of this post, yes upper high command RP is rather stale and get's very boring after a solid year of the same thing over and over again.
Also, just a side note, my unit didn't go rogue and isn't going to go rogue and I'm sorry if I'm not always like the rest of high command and try to kill and pk every high value anti citizen. HL2RP isn't about killing everyone, sometimes its nice to let people who create good RP and who spent 6+ hours writing a book for their character's auth app that got accepted to get away from tight situations to continue to use those characters and have good, fun RP. Few people here seem to ever think about that.
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Your brain isn't switched out with a mechanical brain at any point during that surgery. Its intended that you retain your human mind and personality, which is how you've developed your character. Augments are purely physical, only increasing strength and physical aspects.
I'm just going to throw THIS in here because I think you are getting the wrong point. They were not talking about augments constricting how and what your character does due to a brain augment or anything of the sorts. They were talking about "the trust of the union", I guess you would say. The union would not give augments to someone who they believe that will defect or do something that goes against the UU laws and regulations. The union would only give augments to the units they believe that would die for the union and is willing to preserve the union in anyway possible. It would seem like a waste if they just gave augments to a unit who defected or to a unit who went and killed other CCA units before taking his own life.
With all that aside, I do believe high command (just S0) has things that hinder their RP but with good reasoning. And the whole "938 let her go" should of been voided. Even if he wasn't loyalty checked, even if he wasn't brainwashed, even if he wasn't an S0 unit, but the way in which the "sewer fiasco" went down made me strongly go against the whole thing. You two claimed it was meta due to the fact the guy who reported you was down on the other side of the sewer and couldn't see you. I brought up the fact that the citizen would of easily been able to seen your optics in the (dark according to a reason he can't see you two) and you admitted to it and deemed it as a reasonable point, along with a few others that me and the other units came up with. But after that, you then proceeded to still claim meta and which lead to you guys just voiding the whole report. It seemed as if you weren't even listening to the points we were bringing up, yet you admitted to them being reasonable and valid. You just wanted to save your characters/RP.
I try to present a project to him that he requested I do and just tells me It seems good because he was letting you go. That made me a bit mad.
And lets also talk about this. Everything took second place to your RP. The three or four inactive weeks airborne wasn't on city (Not complaining about it because he is S0 so he doesn't have much to do and there are other games and gamemodes other than just city. Just bringing it up for the point ->) caused a build up of projects requests and units who needed to speak to him. But the one moment we had the chance, we get shut down because of the cyber or what ever you want to call it that you two were doing. And, considering that he most likely isn't going to be on for awhile after this, it just adds to it.
It's been like this for the year I've been in the CCA. Sure, I've been nothing above the ranking of Eu, but I've seen/talked/still chat with a few of the HC members. This "control" over HC units has been around for a long ass time and many people knew this. But no one really "cared". But seriously, I have to ask you, what do you expect to accomplish from this? It wont change a thing and its all over a game. It seems mean but its true. I felt the same enthusiasm you are feeling right now, over something (RADON) that doesn't really matter because its just a game and it doesn't matter "that much." Your life wont be changed or affected by this, and I had a hard time grasping it but eventually I did. Just, move on. It's better for everyone
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rofl
'im quitting because high command is boring'
play a citizen
leeway isn't letting a known anti citizen out and giving her a pistol
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Things shouldn't be voided just because people don't like it (to a point), and yes, HC+ RP is really stale, and I don't REALLY think people who are OfC can really say it is or isn't, because at that point you're more or less still open for a lot of roleplay
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it sounds like to me you had a chat with sexy frog who's upset he can't slam his fists in CCA s0 meetings anymore because he was forcibly augmented after sustaining serious injuries that wouldn't have occured if he was augmented in the first place.
Do me a favor and don't involve me in this like that. I gained a permanent injury that forced me to replace my legs to compensate for the injury, mind you of my own accord. I could have been like everyone else and just did a dumb NLR and been totally fine. So don't pull that card here as a low blow at me when I have done nothing to you. I can still play out 211's emotions an 'slam my fists in CCA s0 meetings' all I please. I don't want to be antagonized for something that happened to me and holds no baring on this discussion. Thanks.
I don't feel restricted either like Dallas. And if you're talking about 938, which I'm sure is the reason you're bringing this up there's several reasons (At least for an S0 unit from what I've asked).
- They would be loyalty checked
- Possibly brainwashed
- Augmented
With all of that, they would be augmented, tested true to be loyal to the Union and then brainwashed. My Officer 495 hasn't been brainwashed, memory replaced and has minimal augmentation. When you get to the point of S0, yes it does restrict your rp greatly. But then again it depends on how you play the role. You can have very little or a lot of involvement in your section. Have different emotions, a different process of reacting to situations and interacting with your fellow Units; It's pretty much endless how you can roleplay as a High Command unit among anything else. But yes, I do think there needs to be some freedom with this too but not just "herp derp i'm going rogue after years in the cca" but as of now that's the way it is.
And if Airborne wants to have a rogue unit, make another one and go rogue. It makes MUCH more sense compared to a Section leader who has dedicated their lives and time to the CCA. I try to present a project to him that he requested I do and just tells me It seems good because he was letting you go. That made me a bit mad.
You and Dallas don't feel restricted as you claim because OfC is, not to sounds superior or like I am looking down on anyone, but a cushy rank. It is the rank where you are essentially in charge but don't really do much. It is a rank where everyone is not afraid that looking at them the wrong way will get them a BM or OWR. You can look at any CmD at any point in time and they will say the same. KmP? He admitted multiple times that CmD was boring because they got hardly any passive due to everyone being scared. Purple? Probably a bad example given his standing in the community, but he said the same none the less. Delta? Very much the same. S0/CmD is a bland and stressful rank.
Also, at no point has Airborne 'gone rogue after being in the cca for a few years'. He did one act in his own interest. That's hardly lolgorogue. That's not being a tool and thinking for ones self. This particular action happened to touch upon Airbornes OWN character's interests. Who are you, or any of you, to dictate someone else's characters emotions/feelings? Not to mention that Batman did nothing overly horrible. She didn't kill or hurt anyone. The most she did was Sociocide Level 1, Obstruction of Justice, Level Two Contraband, Capital Malcompliance and Aiding in escape of a fugitive. As far as Airborne's character was concerned, as he stated, they shared common interest that struck a nerve. Every good character has their defects. Maybe Airborne's character figured, "Well, she didn't really hurt anyone and she did show loyalty to a cause that is kinda similar to my own. These are all amputate-able charges so...why not fake her death?"
Things shouldn't be voided just because people don't like it (to a point), and yes, HC+ RP is really stale, and I don't REALLY think people who are OfC can really say it is or isn't, because at that point you're more or less still open for a lot of roleplay
Finally, this. Very much this. Let it play out. The CCA is going to catch Batman as some point. Be real, it's a totalitarian police state. It's inevitable. What is so bad about letting it drag out and having fun with it? Do you guys really wanna stomp this out so bad that you can't let it run out a bit?
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i have no problem with the fact airbourne let her escape but why was arming her necessary
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i have no problem with the fact airbourne let her escape but why was arming her necessary
Revoke the pistol then. Void the pistol part. Why is that so hard? I don't see a need for the whole thing to be voided.
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It probably wasn't "necessary", but it happened so why can't we keep it IC? And even if we have to void that part for some reason, the entire event doesn't deserve to be voided.
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...made me strongly go against the whole thing. You two claimed it was meta due to the fact the guy who reported you was down on the other side of the sewer and couldn't see you. I brought up the fact that the citizen would of easily been able to seen your optics in the (dark according to a reason he can't see you two) and you admitted to it and deemed it as a reasonable point, along with a few others that me and the other units came up with. But after that, you then proceeded to still claim meta and which lead to you guys just voiding the whole report. It seemed as if you weren't even listening to the points we were bringing up, yet you admitted to them being reasonable and valid. You just wanted to save your characters/RP.
It turned out it was meta'd. There was no rp and a request device was lol spawned to report it.
There's a difference between trying to save my character and accepting valid rp.
. Everything took second place to your RP. The three or four inactive weeks airborne wasn't on city (Not complaining about it because he is S0 so he doesn't have much to do and there are other games and gamemodes other than just city. Just bringing it up for the point ->) caused a build up of projects requests and units who needed to speak to him. But the one moment we had the chance, we get shut down because of the cyber or what ever you want to call it that you two were doing. And, considering that he most likely isn't going to be on for awhile after this, it just adds to it.
Everything took "second place" to our rp because it was the current rp going on. He couldn't be like "I'm going to get you out", walk five feet, then go off and help a unit because they requested him. RP is RP. Perhaps afterwards, if the shit sort, hadn't happened, he would have been more than happy to help you guys, but he was busy letting my character go. You complaining about not being able to have first priority is an ooc problem, not an ic. Also, we weren't cybering, thanks.
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I agree with Smt and Sexy. The roleplay should have simply been allowed to happen. Realistically, very few members of the CCA would have joined up in the first place off of the Union's values and mission. They either joined for food, safety, or power over others in a time of unfamiliarity. As a person ranks up through the CCA, they obviously are exposed more and more to the Union's ideals, but aside from direct brainwashing, you can't really dramatically change a person's values. So, unless 938 had an undieing loyalty to the Union at some point, it's completely possible that he might do something for his own benefit. Afterall, it's highly likely that joining the CCA in the first place was for his own benefit, along with many other units in the force.
As for voiding portions of RP. Why does this happen? It's supposed to be realistic, and as far as I know, you can't void real life. Everytime something happens that people don't like/agree with, it doesn't need to get voided right away. Sometimes, shit happens that you don't like. If you have a problem with this, take it from an IC approach if you're able to. If not, suck it up and deal with it. It's /extremely/ frustrating when people constantly argue/complain about stuff like this. There's far to much OOC involvement in roleplay that goes on, and you're destroying immersion by dragging out these issues in OOC.
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What I mean by 938 going rogue isn't him just straight out going behind the Union's back and leaving. I mean he committed an anti-Union act. He assisted an anti-citizen which is a pretty big decision that can result in ultimately fucking up your character's life literally. And if it was out of sympathy, that's a pretty big step just for being sympathetic. The furthest I've attempted on 495 along the lines of sympathy is giving someone a warning instead of beating them. But what he did was commit a rogue act, and should be treated that way. So if we did catch 938 and apparently everything up to the point of us confronting him with Elizabeth after all the confusion, we were called out for metagame because the citizen who called it in was too far away and spawned a request device to call it in. (I think) So then there's the IC perspective you can put into account. I would think at least ICly that there's cameras installed in the various areas of the nexus. So all of the rp that was going on inside the medbay was recorded and logged. Or if 938 deleted that, It's going to be detected.
But that's debatable. It was brought up by other admins but I honestly don't care at this point if It's voided or not. Eventually 938 would be caught and amputated for that and Elizabeth would be executed. Oh well.
Everything took "second place" to our rp because it was the current rp going on. He couldn't be like "I'm going to get you out", walk five feet, then go off and help a unit because they requested him. RP is RP. Perhaps afterwards, if the shit sort, hadn't happened, he would have been more than happy to help you guys, but he was busy letting my character go. You complaining about not being able to have first priority is an ooc problem, not an ic. Also, we weren't cybering, thanks.
And I can agree with twinkletoes by this, as he pulled my comment as an example. Airborne was very busy with what I can only assume was his new job. Real life comes first, yes. But then when he does have time to come on and there's a truckload of backed up shit including projects like the vests I had been working on for days, and he's doing something that at the time was so god damn stupid I couldn't believe it everyone there including myself didn't know what to think. We take the time to rp developing our projects just so 938 can say "go ahead" over the radio to give you a gun and let you go. That is what he means. High command is very minimal work. You set up a frame, say yes or no to questions while trying to keep the peace by being tough. Which doesn't essentially mean you need to be pissed off 24/7. I argued about HC's process of dealing with situations a while back. What I saw was a bigass moodswing when you hit OfC/DvL. 270 was a prime example of "ripping spines" when anyone spoke. I hated that, so when I got to AmU, then OfC and eventually DvL/Section OfC I kept a laid back, calm and calculated shell around my unit. Inside he's scared of screwing up and still learning himself; Most of the Units he leads are years older than he is.
That's what I mean by the way you roleplay as high command. Breaking the UU's rules or abiding by them isn't your only two choices.
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What I mean by 938 going rogue isn't him just straight out going behind the Union's back and leaving. I mean he committed an anti-Union act. He assisted an anti-citizen which is a pretty big decision that can result in ultimately fucking up your character's life literally. And if it was out of sympathy, that's a pretty big step just for being sympathetic. The furthest I've attempted on 495 along the lines of sympathy is giving someone a warning instead of beating them. But what he did was commit a rogue act, and should be treated that way. So if we did catch 938 and apparently everything up to the point of us confronting him with Elizabeth after all the confusion, we were called out for metagame because the citizen who called it in was too far away and spawned a request device to call it in. (I think) So then there's the IC perspective you can put into account. I would think at least ICly that there's cameras installed in the various areas of the nexus. So all of the rp that was going on inside the medbay was recorded and logged. Or if 938 deleted that, It's going to be detected.
But that's debatable. It was brought up by other admins but I honestly don't care at this point if It's voided or not. Eventually 938 would be caught and amputated for that and Elizabeth would be executed. Oh well.
To be entirely honest, seeing as if the request was mostly metagame as claimed, then nobody has any reason to question Airborne. There would be no IC reasoning for checking the footage for anything because as far as anyone knows, Elizabeth is dead. Her file would read DECEASED. If he deleted the footage, it would be before you placed your system in place which in all honest was likely pushed in response to what has happened due to this fiasco. So in a sense, had this stuff not happened, the 'file recovery' system would not have been put in place. That on its own comes off as meta, however I am not about to point fingers here. That is a topic for another time.
Regardless, there would be no reason for the files in question to be even sought after as all anyone saw was Airborne wheeling out a corpse covered in a bloody tarp. But again, like any action anyone does, there are always repercussions. Batman is going to be caught at some point. That is a fact. Airborne may very well be found out at some point if he starts slipping. That's a fact.
As far as I'm concerned, this whole voiding business is on the basis of shotty evidence that is high controversial. People claim DNA, people claim cameras, people claim metagame, people claim supposed witnesses, people claim augments/brainwashing, people claim weapon logging for the missing pistol (which is total bull shit), people claim this and that. I think if you all /are/ going to push for this, try to get something a bit more concrete.
Edit: Not only that but being at S0, in a realistic mindset, what is to stop him from just shooting the person who doubts him or holds allegations against him in the face? Units are easily replaceable and if the Section Leader of that section feels one of his units is disposable for one reason or another, he can de-service units at his leisure. The only reason that is not in place is because of OOC reasons of it not being fair. So if you want to go ahead and call realism, there's some realism for you.
> I am high ranking unit in "heartless, emotionless" CCA.
> I do something bad. Unit's are accusing me.
> Unit is lower rank.
> Kill unit for insubordination or make up reason of unit being unfit for task.
> Freedom
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Edited my other post. And yes, the footage, logs etc. (especially the pistol's serial) are not good reasons to investigate when as of now there is not reason to and would be flat out meta. But if he does in fact start slipping IC, S2 or others could investigate. When or if that does happen a lot of those examples will be rendered helpful and proving 938 did help Elizabeth escape. And if he's going to deservice units and let an AC escape after he's just amputated someone he probably worked with ICly for a long, long time.. It doesn't make sense at as both kind of conflict with each other at least how he thinks. He doesn't have to kill them either. He can show sympathy as he did in that giant example with Elizabeth. But idk, I'm not Airborne nor do I play 938.
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Edited my other post. And yes, the footage, logs etc. (especially the pistol's serial) are not good reasons to investigate when as of now there is not reason to and would be flat out meta. But if he does in fact start slipping IC, S2 or others could investigate. When or if that does happen a lot of those examples will be rendered helpful and proving 938 did help Elizabeth escape. And if he's going to deservice units and let an AC escape after he's just amputated someone he probably worked with ICly for a long, long time.. It doesn't make sense at as both kind of conflict with each other at least how he thinks. He doesn't have to kill them either. He can show sympathy as he did in that giant example with Elizabeth. But idk, I'm not Airborne nor do I play 938.
From what I've heard, Airborne has a long history of shooting units for the lols. He patches them up after, but he still does. So it's not that hard to pull off.
"I shot the unit to teach him a lesson. I accidentally aimed too high and shot him in the heart." Problem solved.
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I /may/ be a little lost here but, unless you have a reason to check the footage/check for the weapons serial(Which is bullshit because not even the best CCA unit RPs that bullcrap anyway, and keeping track of a database of every firearm the CCA has would be massive, plus it would most likely get passed off as a training pistol/extra sidearm.) then unless you get a reason for them to be checked, then you can't really use it, and depending on how its done the footage may show nothing, you can't have cameras covering every angle at every moment in every room, the wiring would be impossible, not to mention you have to allow for /oversight/. As for DNA and all that, unless it was RPed THEN AND THERE, it shouldn't be a factor.
Personally I think what Airborne did was a good thing, it makes for character development and it shows that the CCA isn't all "LOL WE'RE UBER BADASSES THAT S2K EVER LUL REBEL ON SIGHT!" like most people think.
Perhaps ya'll should realize that we throw canon out a lot to make for better RP, but when people start bitching that are either high ranking CCA or a large group of people, everyone seems to forget that.
The union(And their forces) aren't perfect, stop assuming that they are; and maybe allow for a /little/ roleplay? I remember being bored as fuck as high command and I was the leader of the most interesting division at the time.
I personally think(From a civilian perspective) that it should be allowed to RP out to the very end.
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i'm confused as to why it's supposed to be voided - IC should remain IC without OOC interference unless server rules were broke. if airbourne was caught/seen allowing elizabeth to escape (which supposedly was metagame as i was contacted IC'ly about it on 621) then that should be the factor that sees as to how the event plays out, not people whining about it ooc'ly
and someone explain whether he was seen or not thx
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Edited my other post. And yes, the footage, logs etc. (especially the pistol's serial) are not good reasons to investigate when as of now there is not reason to and would be flat out meta. But if he does in fact start slipping IC, S2 or others could investigate. When or if that does happen a lot of those examples will be rendered helpful and proving 938 did help Elizabeth escape. And if he's going to deservice units and let an AC escape after he's just amputated someone he probably worked with ICly for a long, long time.. It doesn't make sense at as both kind of conflict with each other at least how he thinks. He doesn't have to kill them either. He can show sympathy as he did in that giant example with Elizabeth. But idk, I'm not Airborne nor do I play 938.
From what I've heard, Airborne has a long history of shooting units for the lols. He patches them up after, but he still does. So it's not that hard to pull off.
"I shot the unit to teach him a lesson. I accidentally aimed too high and shot him in the heart." Problem solved.
Normally he shoots them in the feet or non-fatal areas. Most of support knows that, and I'm sure they all have been shot. But they seem to respect him for that and are aware of that. Anyone can shoot a person to stop them if they know almost 100 percent they wont die.
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Edited my other post. And yes, the footage, logs etc. (especially the pistol's serial) are not good reasons to investigate when as of now there is not reason to and would be flat out meta. But if he does in fact start slipping IC, S2 or others could investigate. When or if that does happen a lot of those examples will be rendered helpful and proving 938 did help Elizabeth escape. And if he's going to deservice units and let an AC escape after he's just amputated someone he probably worked with ICly for a long, long time.. It doesn't make sense at as both kind of conflict with each other at least how he thinks. He doesn't have to kill them either. He can show sympathy as he did in that giant example with Elizabeth. But idk, I'm not Airborne nor do I play 938.
From what I've heard, Airborne has a long history of shooting units for the lols. He patches them up after, but he still does. So it's not that hard to pull off.
"I shot the unit to teach him a lesson. I accidentally aimed too high and shot him in the heart." Problem solved.
Normally he shoots them in the feet or non-fatal areas. Most of support knows that, and I'm sure they all have been shot. But they seem to respect him for that and are aware of that. Anyone can shoot a person to stop them if they know almost 100 percent they wont die.
Although this is going off on an odd tangent you can't really fire at any part on a human body knowing "100%" that they won't die, bullets do odd things when they hit bone~
but yes I agree shouldnt be voided etc etc, I'm sure Air expected there to be some negative effects for his char
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Let's not void it. IC = IC.
Just going to say this; if we end up doing some kind of investigation, I won't be using forensics or camera bs because that shit is borderline meta most cases.
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Let's not void it. IC = IC.
Just going to say this; if we end up doing some kind of investigation, I won't be using forensics or camera bs because that shit is borderline meta most cases.
I've told people in nova back then that they are not allowed to like find strands of hair or fingerprints unless the person states it in a note. Same goes with camera/video. Its complete bull and is indeed borderline metagame.
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Let's not void it. IC = IC.
Just going to say this; if we end up doing some kind of investigation, I won't be using forensics or camera bs because that shit is borderline meta most cases.
Couldn't do much forensics regarding units, there being the helmet/mask, gloves, and whatnot. I don't really think anybody leaves anything for forensics anyway without their actions being prearranged in some way.
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It's also not very reassuring on the fact that I am very sure that had the event in the sewers not transpired, virtually nobody would have been the wiser IC or OOC. Had nobody known OOC, this discussion wouldn't be going on right now. That's kind of sad that in order to keep things easy, fun and flowing we have to suddenly become Third Eye or S2 with our actions and keep it on the down low or risk bull shit OOC fights like this.
Please keep this IC. It happened even if you lot don't like it. This should hardly be up for discussion any longer.
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Please keep this IC. It happened even if you lot don't like it. This should hardly be up for discussion any longer.
My thoughts exactly.
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As a High Command unit, I will say that 280 doesn't feel restricted. I've had room to develop him as a character. ICly he's never been brainwashed/wiped/whatever. He's hardened, and that's because he's taken many people's lives (Including his friends) in his time in the CCA. He remains loyal to the Union due to his backstory. (If you care enough, you can look up Adelmo Sucre's CCA app)
As for forensics being borderline meta-gaming, please take a look at the current rules in SPECTRE. I've placed many OOC rules in place when I was running SPECTRE because we were getting shit for meta-gaming. Since these restrictions have been placed, never once has Forensics taken ANY evidence without first consulting the suspect and figuring out what was left behind. Saying that forensics meta-games is simply ignorant. If you actually take your time to research our cases, then you'll find out that since I've placed those OOC rules, there has been absolutely 0 "loldna".
As for Airborne's inactivity or whatever, I think people need to remember that he's the S4 Section Leader. S4 is unlike every other division because it's 2 divisions in one. Expecting him to run both is simply unfair, as every other section leader only has one to worry about. That's why each one of his OfC (Pettit and I) specialize in one section of S4. I think it's safe to say that I essentially run Support, and Pettit runs Logistics. Airborne is there to look over us, and ensure that we don't fuck up. If we do, then he interferes. In my personal experience, Airborne has always helped me whenever I asked for it, and that's really what he needs to do as the Section Leader. So while activity is important, I feel he can complete his job without being on the server as much as the other S0 members. So long as he is there to assist Pettit and I when we need him to, then I see no issue. This is why I personally believe that Logistics and Support should be separate sections, the section leader can't possibly specialize in both medical and mechanical, but this debate has already been had.
As for the entire ordeal with voiding the RP, as many others have said, IC is IC, keep it there.
I'll admit that I didn't read absolutely every post in my thread, so if I repeated something that's already been said or whatever; my bad.
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It's also not very reassuring on the fact that I am very sure that had the event in the sewers not transpired, virtually nobody would have been the wiser IC or OOC. Had nobody known OOC, this discussion wouldn't be going on right now. That's kind of sad that in order to keep things easy, fun and flowing we have to suddenly become Third Eye or S2 with our actions and keep it on the down low or risk bull shit OOC fights like this.
Please keep this IC. It happened even if you lot don't like it. This should hardly be up for discussion any longer.
i found out ic'ly before i did ooc'ly
edit: can i get a PM from one of the parties involved informing me whether my sources were legitimate or if they were metagamed please
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It's also not very reassuring on the fact that I am very sure that had the event in the sewers not transpired, virtually nobody would have been the wiser IC or OOC. Had nobody known OOC, this discussion wouldn't be going on right now. That's kind of sad that in order to keep things easy, fun and flowing we have to suddenly become Third Eye or S2 with our actions and keep it on the down low or risk bull shit OOC fights like this.
Please keep this IC. It happened even if you lot don't like it. This should hardly be up for discussion any longer.
i found out ic'ly before i did ooc'ly
edit: can i get a PM from one of the parties involved informing me whether my sources were legitimate or if they were metagamed please
Due to units finding out IC of a respectively metagamed instance you were informed of a situation that did not have a solid IC basis to begin with. It's was nobody's fault in particular not yours or the units who told you/answered to the request. The logs clearly stated that the man in question who requested had lolspawned the shipment of request devices and would not be able to spot a SL's black CCA uniform in the darkest portion of the sewers without a flashlight, which said person did not have.
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I thought the reasoning for him spotting 938 was the bright red optics of his mask. Which if I'm not forgetting, Airborne accepted that part at least.
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I thought the reasoning for him spotting 938 was the bright red optics of his mask. Which if I'm not forgetting, Airborne accepted that part at least.
If I'm not mistaken, Airborne was not facing the corner the man was standing at. Though I may be mistaken. If this is so, then there would not have been much to see. That's like wearing all black in total darkness and having a red glow stick. If you put your body in front of the glow stick, it isn't really visible due to it being obstructed and the weak light radius isn't exactly something to help in being spotted.
But again, I could be wrong.
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I thought the reasoning for him spotting 938 was the bright red optics of his mask. Which if I'm not forgetting, Airborne accepted that part at least.
I thought I was agree upon that the source was illegitimate. I could be wrong though. The person who supposedly found us lolspawned a request device. I think there were other factors, plus the fact that it wasn't realistic that the person could see us clearly without a flashlight and without rp.
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The person who sent the report said in the report that elizabeth and 938 seemed to be more than friends. It would be impossible to see anything that would give any hint that we were, "more than friends." We even kept our /me's to a minimum and the only thing that happened was a /me of elizabeth putting her hand on 938's facemask. The citizen was pretty far away, I'd say realistically comparable to 30 yards at the very least and didn't have a flashlight. The only thing he could possibly see would be a very faint glow of the red lights on the left side of my facemask because I was making sure to stand in a very dark corner of the sewers. I actually couldn't even see elizabeth's character right in front of me, so there's no way it would be possible for him to see anything or know that I wasn't just detaining someone down there, therefore making his request 100% metagamed. I also checked the server logs prior to him reporting us just to see if he had RP'd trying to get closer to us to anything like that and the only thing I saw in the logs from him was where he lolspawned a shipment of request devices literally just before he sent in the report. He must have seen the /me of elizabeth touching my facemask because you can see /me's pretty far across the map in chat.
So basically, if this is going to be unvoided, no one has a reason to check any logs or footage, as has already been stated that any video evidence can't be used against me in this. The only thing that could ever get me caught is if someone catches me actually meeting her again, or catches her alive and questions me about it, in which I already have a great IC reason with a perfect back up with logical medical excuses for how she could be alive, which I won't mention unless that time comes.
As for the pistol, I see no issue here and its not like they have infinite ammo or that its someone who can't handle the pistol.
Regarding the comments about my activity, yes I did recently get a new job and a very good one at that. Its a career and takes much of my time. That doesn't mean I'm neglecting my duties here at the community. While I may not be on the server every night, I'm on steam every night and I always have the forums up. If you need to speak with me about an IC issue, copy the IC message format in the hl2rp IC section and send me a forum PM in which I will respond with an IC message as soon as I see that message, or alternatively, send me somewhat IC formatted message over steam and I'll have an IC stasis discussion with you on an issue if I'm not on the server and I'm unable to get on at the time.
As for any further details on this RP, I won't be mentioning anymore about it OOCly and I'll be keeping a close eye on what I can actually be caught for and what I can't to prevent any metagaming attempts. As far as all of you should be concerned, this RP didn't happen to your character's knowledge and Elizabeth is dead and you have no reasons to doubt that 938 killed her, as he confirmed through the radio. If I get on and there's a lolinvestigation going on, I'll call metagaming and take administrative action against any metagaming, whether you're an admin or not and if I catch admins metagaming, punishments will be higher than normal players and this goes for any situation, but you all already know that.
To address the issue with 495 and his project, I do apologize that I didn't focus so much on that particular project, but it also can't be said that I neglect the projects of Logistics. Just in the past month I've ordered and followed two major projects through, those being the vortigaunt shock collars and the IC usage of viscerators. The reason I didn't spend as much time discussing the vest project 495 was testing during my RP with elizabeth is because I already spoke with 605 who came up with the project idea about the specifics and I approved the project so I assumed all 495 wanted to do was test a prototype, in which I had him test it on 121 while I did my RP.
And yes, I am aware that negative consequences /could/ come of this RP and its a risk I'm willing to take. I'm starting to see that I'm spending less and less time on 938 and the server in general. I've pretty gone as far as you can go in the CCA with 938 and I've got a great service record and once you get to the top, things get boring because there's little to work for anymore so I'm pretty much creating unusual RP with my unit that isn't totally strange for my unit's personality and feelings. I've released level 1 anti-citizens in the past as a DvL and never said anything for very similar reasons as I did this with elizabeth. I've never said anything until now for reasons such as why there was an issue with this RP, but I can assure you all, its not something that's totally unusual for my unit. My unit often values himself and his own interests above the Union's and he is justifiably corrupt to a small degree. Not corrupt as in he accepts bribes, but corrupt by Union standards because he's done things in the past that goes against Union policies and laws but seem morally right to 938. Its just how I've developed my character.
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As a High Command unit, I will say that 280 doesn't feel restricted. I've had room to develop him as a character. ICly he's never been brainwashed/wiped/whatever. He's hardened, and that's because he's taken many people's lives (Including his friends) in his time in the CCA. He remains loyal to the Union due to his backstory. (If you care enough, you can look up Adelmo Sucre's CCA app)
you dont feel restricted because you're still only an ofc
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Pro tip: Units won't be afraid of you/actively avoid to rp with you if you're a nice guy aswell as a great leader. If you stomp around, shout at everyone or go out of your way to scare everyone regardless of if they deserve it, then people will not want to be near you. Not saying any of the current S0 do that or nothing. Simply a pro tip.
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Pro tip: Units won't be afraid of you/actively avoid to rp with you if you're a nice guy aswell as a great leader. If you stomp around, shout at everyone or go out of your way to scare everyone regardless of if they deserve it, then people will not want to be near you. Not saying any of the current S0 do that or nothing. Simply a pro tip.
A pro tip that ends up getting you killed half the time. Trying to be a 'nice guy' when you're expected to be cracking down on Units for screwing up, training them so they can actual perform anything and all the bits in between is a tad hard. Speaking from experience, whenever I tried to be 'nice' it backfired massively because that Unit that I was being nice to proceeded to stab me in the back for it. Another time I tried to be nice 031 actually died. Luckily he was revived shortly after, but nonetheless, acting 'nice' gets you nowhere once you get past OfC.
Seriously, being nice is the same as being a dick, you always end up dead or ignored in the end.
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Not to mention your not exactly suppose to be nice in a force like the CCA, its kinda defeats the point of them being evil...
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Well what would you propose as an alternative? Swagger around dishing out nonsensical acts of violence at random? Deal out blackmarks like cards in poker? I'm not saying be 'good guy greg' all the time. Just saying that units will always perform to a fuller extent if they actually like their leader. If a unit is scared of their leader then it forces them to do things, this can lead to units going rogue or becoming seriously damaged. While that ties well with HL2RP, it would be quite a grind to have every HC of the CCA being essentially the same thing.
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Units being scared to a point where they're both IC and slightly OOC scared (fear of severe punishments, etc) is an awful thing that ruins roleplay for everyone
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Well what would you propose as an alternative? Swagger around dishing out nonsensical acts of violence at random? Deal out blackmarks like cards in poker? I'm not saying be 'good guy greg' all the time. Just saying that units will always perform to a fuller extent if they actually like their leader. If a unit is scared of their leader then it forces them to do things, this can lead to units going rogue or becoming seriously damaged. While that ties well with HL2RP, it would be quite a grind to have every HC of the CCA being essentially the same thing.
It's utterly impossible to be perfect, but the best you can do is find a good medium between each. I tried to find that medium but I was so far down the track of 'dickassholeholyshit' that I couldn't recover. There really is no alternative to how you can rp a HC Unit, as you're expected to do things that have a varying effect on people.
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\\ There really is no alternative to how you can rp a HC Unit, as you're expected to do things that have a varying effect on people.
Why does everyone keeps saying HC if they're referring to S0?
Anyways, I disagree 100%. S0 has acted nice towards units before and it's not really a bad thing. I guess you're going to say "You're only OfC" (Which is why I don't get why you say HC instead of S0) but 280 is nice to the units he likes and isn't to the units he doesn't like. It's never bit me in the ass before, because it's realistic. ICly I was friends with many of the units that are in (and some out) of my division, and it wouldn't make sense for 280 to start yelling at them for no reason when he considers them friends. He will still yell at them sometimes, but not as much as units he doesn't like/isn't friends with. As far as I know, there aren't people who go out of their way to avoid RP with 280, so the way I see it, it's completely possible to do your job and at the same time make it so people aren't scared shitless of you and are forced to RP with you.
In all honesty I wasn't scared of 031, I just avoided RP with him because he was annoying and a pain in my ass. Not to mention he held training sessions where all of the admins got in vent together, and then you yelled out IRL military commands that none of us ever heard of, and then yelled at us when we got them wrong just so you guys could have a laugh (And simultaneously waste our time). If people avoided 031, in my personal experience, it wasn't because he was scary. He was simply annoying. (Don't mean any of this personally or as flame, just my honest opinion, and the opinion of a few other units I've talked to.)
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\\ There really is no alternative to how you can rp a HC Unit, as you're expected to do things that have a varying effect on people.
Why does everyone keeps saying HC if they're referring to S0?
Anyways, I disagree 100%. S0 has acted nice towards units before and it's not really a bad thing. I guess you're going to say "You're only OfC" (Which is why I don't get why you say HC instead of S0) but 280 is nice to the units he likes and isn't to the units he doesn't like. It's never bit me in the ass before, because it's realistic. ICly I was friends with many of the units that are in (and some out) of my division, and it wouldn't make sense for 280 to start yelling at them for no reason when he considers them friends. He will still yell at them sometimes, but not as much as units he doesn't like/isn't friends with. As far as I know, there aren't people who go out of their way to avoid RP with 280, so the way I see it, it's completely possible to do your job and at the same time make it so people aren't scared shitless of you and are forced to RP with you.
In all honesty I wasn't scared of 031, I just avoided RP with him because he was annoying and a pain in my ass. Not to mention he held training sessions where all of the admins got in vent together, and then you yelled out IRL military commands that none of us ever heard of, and then yelled at us when we got them wrong just so you guys could have a laugh (And simultaneously waste our time). If people avoided 031, in my personal experience, it wasn't because he was scary. He was simply annoying. (Don't mean any of this personally or as flame, just my honest opinion, and the opinion of a few other units I've talked to.)
It's habit from my perspective, really. It just generalizes everything.
Good job, you're going through the medium. It's just the higher you get in rank, the harder it is to maintain. Eventually you'll narrow your friends down to OfCs/01s and eventually (if you stay in as long as I did) they'll leave, get promoted or just get demoted. Once you reach that stage, you begin doing things like I did because you can't approach anyone because of the reputation you unconsciously built, and by the time you realize you straight out can't approach anyone, you just give up and turn into the "I hate everyone" HC S0.
I take no offence, don't worry. I knew I was being annoying, and I purposely was annoying. The lack of things to do when you're an all-combat oriented unit when there's no combat is very little, so to generally pass time I would annoy Units in character as to show my boredom. It was mostly due to the 'no weapons in city' phase that last for what, 3 months. So there was a IC motive behind the annoying things I did, I just never really told anyone because they never asked.