Catalyst Gaming
General => General Discussion => Social Discussion => Topic started by: Kaiser Wilhelm I ?DetroitRP on May 11, 2012, 10:53:32 PM
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Unless you have been living under a rock for these recent years, you know the gaming system we all know as the PC, which not only a gaming system, is rapidly changing. First, I'd like to represent an a few issues, some that need to be solved and others that can not, that is hurting PC Gaming. Lets start off with number one and that is PC Video Game Piracy. Now I already know what the comments are going to be, "I WHANNA GET THE GAMES FOR FREE!". But, you have to realize, Video Gaming Piracy, especially for the PC is a very huge problem. Even though the PC is home to the most innovative games and the best modifications, we need to realize that we too have some "cons" to our gaming platform. The biggest con is obviously video game piracy on the PC. Let me start off with a few facts first about PC Gaming Piracy. According to a CNN Article of September 9, 2010, over 4.1 million copies of Modern Warfare 2 were illegally pirated. According to an article from Kotaku, the top pirated games on the PC for 2011 were 1. Crysis 2 (3,920,000) (March 2011) 2. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 (3,650,000) (Nov. 2011) 3. Battlefield 3 (3,510,000) (Oct. 2011) 4. FIFA 12 (3,390,000) (Sept. 2011) 5. Portal 2 (3,240,000) (April 2011). I will give in a few more sources later in the argument about how many games were actually bought and are not illegal copies. When you look at this, you might start having a seizure, but the truth is that this is happening. This is happening everyday, hurting companies, both big and small. As you all know, big companies have the ability to have games on all platforms with the snap of their fingers (as long as they have the money),which is a major reason why they are still alive. But what about the Indie devs? Where are they on this whole scheme of things? Well let me show you how piracy is effecting indie games. I believe that the best way to start off how indie devs are affected from PC gaming piracy is by showing you, briefly, the harsh history of the development company known as Indie Stone. If you do know what the Indie Stone is, you'll know that they are making the game known as "Project Zomboid". Project Zomboid was utterly almost killed when numerous project zomboid codes were stolen and of course that their game was pirated numerous times. I have been with Project Zomboid since it started out on Indie Stone. This is outrageous and if anyway you can justify this then you will get 1k personally from me. Don't give some god damn source that says 'Oh, well piracy helps the PC gaming industry". Oh knock it off. We all know if it wasn't for PC GAMER magazine, Project Zomboid would be dead and forgotten about months ago. WIP
THIS IS A WIP, PLEASE POST YOUR OPINION ON THE TOPIC (The future of PC Gaming not only piracy), NOT THE POST I HAVE MADE UNTIL IT IS FINISHED (which I will finish very soon)
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I don't want to reply without you finishing your thought, however I think I should steer you to this point.
We all here use Steam, a digital delivery system which allows you instant access to thousands of games for extremely low prices. THIS is what kills piracy. DRM hurts the consumer, not the pirates. Pirates will always find a way around anything you put in place, no matter how extensive it is. The only way to battle piracy is to offer a better alternative.
I used to pirate games a lot because of lazyness, which is what most people did then as well. I don't want to go all the way to walmart to get the new game when I could just sit here and it'll be done in a few hours. What Steam does is offer such a fast and easy way to get games that people find themselves buying games they don't even play, just because it's such a good deal.
Gabe Newell said (and I'm too lazy to find the quote so I'm paraphrasing) that Steam is doing so well in the piracy world because the 1-click buying and unbelievably common special offers make it impossible to resist. Digital Delivery IS the piracy killer, not DRM.
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I don't want to reply without you finishing your thought, however I think I should steer you to this point.
We all here use Steam, a digital delivery system which allows you instant access to thousands of games for extremely low prices. THIS is what kills piracy. DRM hurts the consumer, not the pirates. Pirates will always find a way around anything you put in place, no matter how extensive it is. The only way to battle piracy is to offer a better alternative.
I used to pirate games a lot because of lazyness, which is what most people did then as well. I don't want to go all the way to walmart to get the new game when I could just sit here and it'll be done in a few hours. What Steam does is offer such a fast and easy way to get games that people find themselves buying games they don't even play, just because it's such a good deal.
Gabe Newell said (and I'm too lazy to find the quote so I'm paraphrasing) that Steam is doing so well in the piracy world because the 1-click buying and unbelievably common special offers make it impossible to resist. Digital Delivery IS the piracy killer, not DRM.
Yes your right, but it is also the price of video games. Skyrim was pirated on the PC more than it was actually sold.
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People who pirate games usually pirate them because they're either not worth buying or they don't have money. If piracy wasn't around the people who pirate games wouldn't buy them anyway.
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To be honest, I don't pirate games if they are not worth buying, because it would not be worth my energy to even do it. I usually do a quick look on YouTube, read up on opinions and reviews both video game journalist and player reviews before making my decision.
I might pirate games if they are the sort of old games that are impossible to get (MS-DOS games, which are usually abandon-ware)
But most of the time, people pirate games because they don't trust the gaming industry, so they pirate it to try out the game (They should make demos.), and they should make games fun, open to modding, and well made games. Not shitty copy paste games (Lol, CoD), or games that have literally been shat out (Mass Effect 3).
But I openly support piracy for reasons such as;
1. To try out software before buying.
2. Protesting against the game industry. (Not an ideal method, but still.)
3. Abandon-ware, if the game is so old, difficult to get, or simply no one inherited the rights to own it.
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The problem is a lot of people who say that they try games out then buy them if they like them is just a load of crap though, on an occasion they will but them but the majority of people do it because of ease of access.
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What void said. I got so many games on steam, as well as another thing called "Impulse". The games are so cheap that I just wanna buy them, yet I don't play them. I only play G-Mod for the most part, rarely any other game. Also what Journeyman said, I know a guy who has a thing on his IPhone so he can get free apps(Jailbreak or whatever). He "jailbreaks" the app, tries it out, and either buys it or not depending on if it was worth it. Steam is burning a hole in my pocket because of all the super cheap games, yet I won't play them. Piracy is good and bad at the same time, it is really what the user does.
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What void said. I got so many games on steam, as well as another thing called "Impulse". The games are so cheap that I just wanna buy them, yet I don't play them. I only play G-Mod for the most part, rarely any other game. Also what Journeyman said, I know a guy who has a thing on his IPhone so he can get free apps(Jailbreak or whatever). He "jailbreaks" the app, tries it out, and either buys it or not depending on if it was worth it. Steam is burning a hole in my pocket because of all the super cheap games, yet I won't play them. Piracy is good and bad at the same time, it is really what the user does.
It seems that you don't understand the fact that most people don't buy when they like it. Number One, if you already spent time downloading Skyrim,for arguments sake, why would you buy since you have a FREE and FINE copy in front of your face. Don't give me that. Number Two, Just because the game is bad does not mean you get to deserve it for free or play it for free. Its a piece of art, that took years and hours of coding and drawing to make. I feel that if you pirate most games just because you don't or can't pay for it then you (This is general, not aimed at only one person) are a dirtbag. Its the sense of entitlement in this world's youth that I still grow up with today. It is completely outrageous, which is why as a society, we are heading down a slope. From people who think illegal immigrants deserve free healthcare from us to people who think they deserve all media entertainment for free should really rethink the situation. Well, The world is dying, where news networks misinform people a lot (IE: Fox News, MSNBC, CNN, Rush Limbaugh, etc.) to this. Our society's youth is mostly stupid, due to the fact they know nothing about politics and just care about being "Gucchi" and having "Swagger". We will most likely turn from the republic we are today (USA) then to a democracy then to a Anarchist state. PS bros: We are not a democracy for a reason, we are a republic. A democracy only supports the majority (IE: 51 percent wins over 49 percent). The circle of life will start again, starting from the Stone Age and then being revolutionized from Hunter-Gatherers to Food producing societies. The next cycle of life will most likely be the same, maybe just the Neolithic Revolution when Agriculture was invented will most likely not be in the Zaggros Mountains again.
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What void said. I got so many games on steam, as well as another thing called "Impulse". The games are so cheap that I just wanna buy them, yet I don't play them. I only play G-Mod for the most part, rarely any other game. Also what Journeyman said, I know a guy who has a thing on his IPhone so he can get free apps(Jailbreak or whatever). He "jailbreaks" the app, tries it out, and either buys it or not depending on if it was worth it. Steam is burning a hole in my pocket because of all the super cheap games, yet I won't play them. Piracy is good and bad at the same time, it is really what the user does.
It seems that you don't understand the fact that most people don't buy when they like it. Number One, if you already spent time downloading Skyrim,for arguments sake, why would you buy since you have a FREE and FINE copy in front of your face. Don't give me that. Number Two, Just because the game is bad does not mean you get to deserve it for free or play it for free. Its a piece of art, that took years and hours of coding and drawing to make. I feel that if you pirate most games just because you don't or can't pay for it then you (This is general, not aimed at only one person) are a dirtbag. Its the sense of entitlement in this world's youth that I still grow up with today. It is completely outrageous, which is why as a society, we are heading down a slope. From people who think illegal immigrants deserve free healthcare from us to people who think they deserve all media entertainment for free should really rethink the situation. Well, The world is dying, where news networks misinform people a lot (IE: Fox News, MSNBC, CNN, Rush Limbaugh, etc.) to this. Our society's youth is mostly stupid, due to the fact they know nothing about politics and just care about being "Gucchi" and having "Swagger". We will most likely turn from the republic we are today (USA) then to a democracy then to a Anarchist state. PS bros: We are not a democracy for a reason, we are a republic. A democracy only supports the majority (IE: 51 percent wins over 49 percent). The circle of life will start again, starting from the Stone Age and then being revolutionized from Hunter-Gatherers to Food producing societies. The next cycle of life will most likely be the same, maybe just the Neolithic Revolution when Agriculture was invented will most likely not be in the Zaggros Mountains again.
I thought we were talking about pirated games? O_O
Anyways. I don't wanna spend 60$ for a game that has a cool trailer and the game studio lies to you making it seem cool, then the game is a sack of shit. (Example, MW3, It's a god damn re-skin of MW2 but with more guns.) Also, pirated versions of games most of the time are buggy as fuck. My dead island got all messed up and shit, 'twas crazy.
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I pirated a few games before, and the only reason I did is because it's free and I honestly couldn't give a fuck more to go buy multiple copies of the game if I have it on another platform... I went and bought skyrim for my brother on the xbox and I pirated on my pc is that a problem I already own a copy they got my money now move on.
Off Topic: And besides Garry's mod brings more enjoyable times then the whole Call of duty franchise has brought me since I started playing them... Honestly I enjoy garry's mod it may be my favorite game
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But you guys don't understand. Just because you think a game like MW3 is shit (which I think is an ok game) DOES NOT mean you get to have it for free. Really dumb guys. Really fucking dumb. If you don't want the game don't buy it. Seriously, I can't take this bs anymore.
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But you guys don't understand. Just because you think a game like MW3 is shit (which I think is an ok game) DOES NOT mean you get to have it for free. Really dumb guys. Really fucking dumb. If you don't want the game don't buy it. Seriously, I can't take this bs anymore.
They make the game seem super cool and stuff, making the viewer think it's gunna be worth the 60$ + DLC, Yet you end up getting a re-skin of MW2 with more guns.
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But you guys don't understand. Just because you think a game like MW3 is shit (which I think is an ok game) DOES NOT mean you get to have it for free. Really dumb guys. Really fucking dumb. If you don't want the game don't buy it. Seriously, I can't take this bs anymore.
They make the game seem super cool and stuff, making the viewer think it's gunna be worth the 60$ + DLC, Yet you end up getting a re-skin of MW2 with more guns.
Number One, they gave you a new campaign. Number two, the game was directed as a sequel to make more money, you would of done the same thing. They sticked to their formula, why do you blame them for that. Number three, companies have a right to falsely advertise, as without it competition would not be the same. Its your god damn job to look into the game and see if its good or not. Also again, YOU STIL DON'T HAVE A RIGHT TO TAKE IT! I dont care if its a superman 64 reskin for 500 dollars, YOU JUST DON'T BUY IT. Do you understand that video games are a luxury, NOT a necessity?
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But you guys don't understand. Just because you think a game like MW3 is shit (which I think is an ok game) DOES NOT mean you get to have it for free. Really dumb guys. Really fucking dumb. If you don't want the game don't buy it. Seriously, I can't take this bs anymore.
They make the game seem super cool and stuff, making the viewer think it's gunna be worth the 60$ + DLC, Yet you end up getting a re-skin of MW2 with more guns.
Number One, they gave you a new campaign. Number two, the game was directed as a sequel to make more money, you would of done the same thing. They sticked to their formula, why do you blame them for that. Number three, companies have a right to falsely advertise, as without it competition would not be the same. Its your god damn job to look into the game and see if its good or not. Also again, YOU STIL DON'T HAVE A RIGHT TO TAKE IT! I dont care if its a superman 64 reskin for 500 dollars, YOU JUST DON'T BUY IT. Do you understand that video games are a luxury, NOT a necessity?
umadbro?
lol but seriously...I got nothin.
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Just skipping past that argument and going back to piracy.
I could see why people are saying a game is "bad" which is your opinion and your entitled to that but dont arugue over it. But that dosent mean you get to get (priate) a game free/try it out because you think its bad and you don't want to pay the money for something you might not like. And let me bring this forward, what if the prices for retail realases were droped from its high standard of sixty dollars and it was lowered to something more reasonable? If the prices were lowered people would be less tempted to priate the game and just buy it to try it out. And that also allows people to buy more game and diversify their game library and video game likes. And in turn this lowers the want to pirate games beacue of the availability to get cheap games.
True, this will most likely not happen. In fact, the prices for games will probably rise to seventy dollars due to people wanting more money for their dedication which is the wrong way to come across the piracy problems. But truthfully, if the standard release price of games were lowered it would greatly help the cause to stop piracy.
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Just skipping past that argument and going back to piracy.
I could see why people are saying a game is "bad" which is your opinion and your entitled to that but dont arugue over it. But that dosent mean you get to get (priate) a game free/try it out because you think its bad and you don't want to pay the money for something you might not like. And let me bring this forward, what if the prices for retail realases were droped from its high standard of sixty dollars and it was lowered to something more reasonable? If the prices were lowered people would be less tempted to priate the game and just buy it to try it out. And that also allows people to buy more game and diversify their game library and video game likes. And in turn this lowers the want to pirate games beacue of the availability to get cheap games.
True, this will most likely not happen. In fact, the prices for games will probably rise to seventy dollars due to people wanting more money for their dedication which is the wrong way to come across the piracy problems. But truthfully, if the standard release price of games were lowered it would greatly help the cause to stop piracy.
Finally, someone who has a rational thought about this problem. Anyways, the price really can't be lowered, as game makers already make very small amounts of money, which some of you guys think that they make lots of money especially from Treyarch. The only make around 90,000 dollars depending on your position. 60 dollars might be a tad expensive, but what isn't in this world that is a luxury?
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Okay so this is all about opinions, I like to get free things you don't go ahead and lock the topic. I couldn't give anymore fucks about the people hurts as long as I save money, but it really is a moral thing.
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Those greedy cunts should stop making the games too expensive
Skyrim for 60 dollars? Well, people say is the most dumbed down TES and is really dull. Of course is going to get dull after 500 hours in a week!. I gadly pay 60 dollars for skyrim, because you get more playtime than another AAA title like CoD 3(a 8 hour campaing and a multiplayer that has not changed since modern warfare). PLUS the thousands of mods out there
Why does Piracy exists? Because it offers more than the original.
Take any media. Videogames? why pay 60 hours for a mere 8 hours of single player if you can download it from the internet?
They did this with the music industry right after the compact disc came. Before that you could buy the single in 7" vinyls, then after that...
"oh so you like only one song of that album? Too bad, you must buy the whole album first"
Compact disk piracy came because nobody wanted to pay the whole price of a CD album or a LP because they didn't wanted to buy the whole album, just a pair of songs from it.
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There's just one big problem with pirated games: 9/10 they don't have multiplayer!! Most games therefore get very boring after a while, unless you go and buy them for the multiplayer. A few, very popular shooters, had special "cracked servers" developed for them, but otherwise, you wont get multiplayer when pirating a game. If a game doesn't have multiplayer, it's not worth buying. (That includes Skyrim btw, I don't like that genre anyways).
If games were ONLY released for PC, and there were no consoles, the gaming industry would be in big trouble, but for now, console games pirating is very limited.
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But you guys don't understand. Just because you think a game like MW3 is shit (which I think is an ok game) DOES NOT mean you get to have it for free. Really dumb guys. Really fucking dumb. If you don't want the game don't buy it. Seriously, I can't take this bs anymore.
They make the game seem super cool and stuff, making the viewer think it's gunna be worth the 60$ + DLC, Yet you end up getting a re-skin of MW2 with more guns.
Number One, they gave you a new campaign. Number two, the game was directed as a sequel to make more money, you would of done the same thing. They sticked to their formula, why do you blame them for that. Number three, companies have a right to falsely advertise, as without it competition would not be the same. Its your god damn job to look into the game and see if its good or not. Also again, YOU STIL DON'T HAVE A RIGHT TO TAKE IT! I dont care if its a superman 64 reskin for 500 dollars, YOU JUST DON'T BUY IT. Do you understand that video games are a luxury, NOT a necessity?
That is the most hilarious argument you can give to us, even though I'm late by dropping by, but you've just proven our point.
They care about making money (Why the fuck would they need more?) rather than making games that give me the entertainment that I paid for?
Would you like to be lied and cheated if someone said about the game that interested you, but turned out to be a pile of dogs bollocks? I would be mad, just like when they made DAII seem like a badass game and it turned out to be a linear and mundane game.
Just an FYI, if it's a "luxury" then you get what you paid for, like you stated, if they are allowed to lie to you, and care about making money before giving quality, then I no one would even consider it luxury, I'd they would call it a piece of shit.
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Just skipping past that argument and going back to piracy.
I could see why people are saying a game is "bad" which is your opinion and your entitled to that but dont arugue over it. But that dosent mean you get to get (priate) a game free/try it out because you think its bad and you don't want to pay the money for something you might not like. And let me bring this forward, what if the prices for retail realases were droped from its high standard of sixty dollars and it was lowered to something more reasonable? If the prices were lowered people would be less tempted to priate the game and just buy it to try it out. And that also allows people to buy more game and diversify their game library and video game likes. And in turn this lowers the want to pirate games beacue of the availability to get cheap games.
True, this will most likely not happen. In fact, the prices for games will probably rise to seventy dollars due to people wanting more money for their dedication which is the wrong way to come across the piracy problems. But truthfully, if the standard release price of games were lowered it would greatly help the cause to stop piracy.
Finally, someone who has a rational thought about this problem. Anyways, the price really can't be lowered, as game makers already make very small amounts of money, which some of you guys think that they make lots of money especially from Treyarch. The only make around 90,000 dollars depending on your position. 60 dollars might be a tad expensive, but what isn't in this world that is a luxury?
Sure they dont make a lot of money but then again most of the "game makers" are not in it for the money, its in the love for making and playing video games. And there if your going to talk about luxury just stop right in your tracks. Luxury is anything that isnt Water, food and shelter and if you start talking about paying a lot of money for these so called "luxuires" then you are insane. The prices do need to be droped and once they do people will be more impowered to buy games. And sure they dont make a lot of money but then again, the money distribution isnt being portrayed correctly.
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You'll find that they make ridiculous sums of cash - especially for popular titles that the 13 year olds would normally follow, or the poor suckers that think that they are going to be given a fantastic game.
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Greedy?!? Sir they are going by the formula. They are doing what makes money. You would do the same freaking thing if you made money of it. Don't give me this greedy cunt bullshit. You know its bullshit. You would have done the same thing too. It's business. I can't believe what is happening to this world. JUST BECAUSE IT MIGHT BE THE SAME REHASHED SHIT DOES NOT MEAN YOU DON'T STEAL IT. GOD DAMNIT!
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Greedy?!? Sir they are going by the formula. They are doing what makes money. You would do the same freaking thing if you made money of it. Don't give me this greedy cunt bullshit. You know its bullshit. You would have done the same thing too. It's business. I can't believe what is happening to this world. JUST BECAUSE IT MIGHT BE THE SAME REHASHED SHIT DOES NOT MEAN YOU DON'T STEAL IT. GOD DAMNIT!
If they are going to do it just for the money rather than do it for passion and share it, then people will stop caring and they will get the games their own way.
I'm sorry but you base your arguments around how it's okay to lie to people, and make up bullshit on how the game will be the triple A title, when you get a game that is the same shit.
So, the fact is that when you lie to people, make up overpriced DLC's, and don't give the quality that the consumers ask for. That's ok?
But if people pirated the game because they knew that it's not worth the cash to spend it on, it's not ok?
Sorry, but we're not sheeps here, my good friend. We demand quality, not the same rehashed crap, if they take the piss and just make the game exactly the same with no effort to improve on it, then they better be prepared for a wave of pirates.
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Greedy?!? Sir they are going by the formula. They are doing what makes money. You would do the same freaking thing if you made money of it. Don't give me this greedy cunt bullshit. You know its bullshit. You would have done the same thing too. It's business. I can't believe what is happening to this world. JUST BECAUSE IT MIGHT BE THE SAME REHASHED SHIT DOES NOT MEAN YOU DON'T STEAL IT. GOD DAMNIT!
If they are going to do it just for the money rather than do it for passion and share it, then people will stop caring and they will get the games their own way.
I'm sorry but you base your arguments around how it's okay to lie to people, and make up bullshit on how the game will be the triple A title, when you get a game that is the same shit. EDIT: +you actually think people want to share a video game (the programmers) for free? WHAT!? It is a piece of art and you are stealing it. Thats enough, I need to post a audio bit for this comment, this is heated.
So, the fact is that when you lie to people, make up overpriced DLC's, and don't give the quality that the consumers ask for. That's ok?
But if people pirated the game because they knew that it's not worth the cash to spend it on, it's not ok?
Sorry, but we're not sheeps here, my good friend. We demand quality, not the same rehashed crap, if they take the piss and just make the game exactly the same with no effort to improve on it, then they better be prepared for a wave of pirates.
I understand this, but IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE SHITTY GAME THEN DON'T BUY IT! JESUS CHRIST. That does NOT mean you deserve a fucking free copy. You don't deserve a free copy just because it is a bad game. Also, pirates pirate bad games too. Look at project zomboid, Skyrim, Battlefield 3, Minecraft.
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Greedy?!? Sir they are going by the formula. They are doing what makes money. You would do the same freaking thing if you made money of it. Don't give me this greedy cunt bullshit. You know its bullshit. You would have done the same thing too. It's business. I can't believe what is happening to this world. JUST BECAUSE IT MIGHT BE THE SAME REHASHED SHIT DOES NOT MEAN YOU DON'T STEAL IT. GOD DAMNIT!
If they are going to do it just for the money rather than do it for passion and share it, then people will stop caring and they will get the games their own way.
I'm sorry but you base your arguments around how it's okay to lie to people, and make up bullshit on how the game will be the triple A title, when you get a game that is the same shit. EDIT: +you actually think people want to share a video game (the programmers) for free? WHAT!? It is a piece of art and you are stealing it. Thats enough, I need to post a audio bit for this comment, this is heated.
So, the fact is that when you lie to people, make up overpriced DLC's, and don't give the quality that the consumers ask for. That's ok?
But if people pirated the game because they knew that it's not worth the cash to spend it on, it's not ok?
Sorry, but we're not sheeps here, my good friend. We demand quality, not the same rehashed crap, if they take the piss and just make the game exactly the same with no effort to improve on it, then they better be prepared for a wave of pirates.
I understand this, but IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE SHITTY GAME THEN DON'T BUY IT! JESUS CHRIST. That does NOT mean you deserve a fucking free copy. You don't deserve a free copy just because it is a bad game. Also, pirates pirate bad games too. Look at project zomboid, Skyrim, Battlefield 3, Minecraft.
I'm sorry, but I believe that I don't pirate "modern" games, because it's not worth my energy to play a horrendous game in the first place.
People pirate games to harm the industry, to show that they won't pay for the game if they deliver games that are the exact same games, with just new weapons.
I find Skyrim and Minecraft more refreshing and entertaining than Modern Warfare 2 that disguises itself as being Modern Warfare 3, but that's another argument, seeing as we talk about piracy.
So, here's the summary.
Lie to the consumers.
Care about making money and nothing else.
Make the game as fast as they could make it.
Overprice DLC's that increases the lifespan of the game for a mere hour because there's a new weapon and 2 maps.
An acceptable business practice.
But if someone did something such as pirac-- OMFGWTFBBQCOMMUNISM U R FUCKING RUIEENEING GAYMING INDUSTTREEE!!1!!1!1!
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Greedy?!? Sir they are going by the formula. They are doing what makes money. You would do the same freaking thing if you made money of it. Don't give me this greedy cunt bullshit. You know its bullshit. You would have done the same thing too. It's business. I can't believe what is happening to this world. JUST BECAUSE IT MIGHT BE THE SAME REHASHED SHIT DOES NOT MEAN YOU DON'T STEAL IT. GOD DAMNIT!
If they are going to do it just for the money rather than do it for passion and share it, then people will stop caring and they will get the games their own way.
I'm sorry but you base your arguments around how it's okay to lie to people, and make up bullshit on how the game will be the triple A title, when you get a game that is the same shit. EDIT: +you actually think people want to share a video game (the programmers) for free? WHAT!? It is a piece of art and you are stealing it. Thats enough, I need to post a audio bit for this comment, this is heated.
So, the fact is that when you lie to people, make up overpriced DLC's, and don't give the quality that the consumers ask for. That's ok?
But if people pirated the game because they knew that it's not worth the cash to spend it on, it's not ok?
Sorry, but we're not sheeps here, my good friend. We demand quality, not the same rehashed crap, if they take the piss and just make the game exactly the same with no effort to improve on it, then they better be prepared for a wave of pirates.
I understand this, but IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE SHITTY GAME THEN DON'T BUY IT! JESUS CHRIST. That does NOT mean you deserve a fucking free copy. You don't deserve a free copy just because it is a bad game. Also, pirates pirate bad games too. Look at project zomboid, Skyrim, Battlefield 3, Minecraft.
I'm sorry, but I believe that I don't pirate "modern" games, because it's not worth my energy to play a horrendous game in the first place.
People pirate games to harm the industry, to show that they won't pay for the game if they deliver games that are the exact same games, with just new weapons.
I find Skyrim and Minecraft more refreshing and entertaining than Modern Warfare 2 that disguises itself as being Modern Warfare 3, but that's another argument, seeing as we talk about piracy.
So, here's the summary.
Lie to the consumers.
Care about making money and nothing else.
Make the game as fast as they could make it.
Overprice DLC's that increases the lifespan of the game for a mere hour because there's a new weapon and 2 maps.
An acceptable business practice.
But if someone did something such as pirac-- OMFGWTFBBQCOMMUNISM U R FUCKING RUIEENEING GAYMING INDUSTTREEE!!1!!1!1!
So what are you? The spokesperson for all the pirates? Pirates don't pirate because they want to harm the industry, because if that was so, Minecraft and Skyrim would not be pirated. My question is to you, do you think that the government has a right to shutdown Pirate bay? I believe they do. My second question is, do you believe that companies should be allowed to make creative DRMs in order to stop pirates, whether the game is good or bad? I really think it's outrageous that your saying that people have right to get the item for free even when the game/TV Show/Movie is bad. I really can't believe this. If this is what most of today's youth believes in with that everyone deserves this entitlement, we are all doomed.
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So what are you? The spokesperson for all the pirates? Pirates don't pirate because they want to harm the industry, because if that was so, Minecraft and Skyrim would not be pirated. My question is to you, do you think that the government has a right to shutdown Pirate bay? I believe they do. My second question is, do you believe that companies should be allowed to make creative DRMs in order to stop pirates, whether the game is good or bad? I really think it's outrageous that your saying that people have right to get the item for free even when the game/TV Show/Movie is bad. I really can't believe this. If this is what most of today's youth believes in with that everyone deserves this entitlement, we are all doomed.
I don't remember claiming that I am the spokes person of pirating games.
You clearly seem to be blind to why piracy happens.
Notch said so himself, he does not mind people pirating a game, simply because it can generate potential customers, rather than wasting time (and money) fighting it, Notch has clearly shown that piracy hardly affects him, he does not like it happen, sure, but he does not go into a big hissy fit because a few misfits just don't want to buy games.
Yes, having games that are fantastic, gives a good life span, coupled with good anti-piracy software will prevent piracy altogether. But if you make a quality of the game a pile of crap. Then obviously people will dedicate their time to making it easy to pirate and being user-friendly.
Why would someone buy a £50 game for something that has an excitement lasting for a day, whilst at the same time the game discourages creating a modding community?
I don't understand exactly what you are trying to say by "Companies making creative DRMs".
The government has no right to shut down pirate bay have any power to control anyone on the internet. Not only does it make the government look like a bunch of imperialistic fascists, but also anything on the internet is not fraudulent, any data on the internet will always be the exact copy of data you receive.
"If this is what most of today's youth believes in with that everyone deserves this entitlement, we are all doomed. " - Please don't give us that, it's hard to make you seem serious, simply because you have no real proof against the argument on why people pirate in the first place, nor do you have any proof.
In fact I find it amusing. You seem to claim that the reason people pirate is that they do it for free? Ha ha ha, you should be my court jester.
There's always more reasons why people pirate. But you seem to not want to believe in that.
http://www.positech.co.uk/talkingtopirates.html
http://www.moddb.com/polls/why-do-you-pirate-games
http://dbzer0.com/blog/why-do-people-pirate-games
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So what are you? The spokesperson for all the pirates? Pirates don't pirate because they want to harm the industry, because if that was so, Minecraft and Skyrim would not be pirated. My question is to you, do you think that the government has a right to shutdown Pirate bay? I believe they do. My second question is, do you believe that companies should be allowed to make creative DRMs in order to stop pirates, whether the game is good or bad? I really think it's outrageous that your saying that people have right to get the item for free even when the game/TV Show/Movie is bad. I really can't believe this. If this is what most of today's youth believes in with that everyone deserves this entitlement, we are all doomed.
I don't remember claiming that I am the spokes person of pirating games.
You clearly seem to be blind to why piracy happens.
Notch said so himself, he does not mind people pirating a game, simply because it can generate potential customers, rather than wasting time (and money) fighting it, Notch has clearly shown that piracy hardly affects him, he does not like it happen, sure, but he does not go into a big hissy fit because a few misfits just don't want to buy games.
Yes, having games that are fantastic, gives a good life span, coupled with good anti-piracy software will prevent piracy altogether. But if you make a quality of the game a pile of crap. Then obviously people will dedicate their time to making it easy to pirate and being user-friendly.
Why would someone buy a £50 game for something that has an excitement lasting for a day, whilst at the same time the game discourages creating a modding community?
I don't understand exactly what you are trying to say by "Companies making creative DRMs".
The government has no right to shut down pirate bay have any power to control anyone on the internet. Not only does it make the government look like a bunch of imperialistic fascists, but also anything on the internet is not fraudulent, any data on the internet will always be the exact copy of data you receive.
"If this is what most of today's youth believes in with that everyone deserves this entitlement, we are all doomed. " - Please don't give us that, it's hard to make you seem serious, simply because you have no real proof against the argument on why people pirate in the first place, nor do you have any proof.
In fact I find it amusing. You seem to claim that the reason people pirate is that they do it for free? Ha ha ha, you should be my court jester.
There's always more reasons why people pirate. But you seem to not want to believe in that.
http://www.positech.co.uk/talkingtopirates.html
http://www.moddb.com/polls/why-do-you-pirate-games
http://dbzer0.com/blog/why-do-people-pirate-games
Just going back on the point earlier about how if something is bad and overpriced people have a "right" to pirate it, let me give you an analogy.
You are walking home from school/work the same way you do every day. As you walk home you pass the same cake shop that you see every day and you notice something. In the window of this cake shop is a wedding cake, the cake doesn’t look the great and you are not getting married. Next to the cake is a sign that says "Brand new delicious cake - only $200!” You stop and think "This cake isn't delicious; it looks badly made and not even tasty. Not to mention I'm pretty sure the last cake they had in stock looked the same..." So you have no intention to want to buy this cake, you have no wedding and even if you did the cake looks bad and overpriced. But you are furious that they are lying and selling it for a high price, so unlike a normal person, you pick up a conveniently placed cinder block and smash down the window. You grab the cake as the glass shatters and you pelt home as fast as you can with the cake in hand. Luckily the cake shop owner had his store covered and was ready to throw the cake out sonic anyway. Meanwhile at home you cut a slice of the stolen cake and you try it, as you expected the cake tasted horrible. So you walk back to the store the next day, go in and say to the owner "That cake was horrible! You were selling the same cake the other day and you said it was a new one! How can you sell it for such a high price, are you crazy! You are lying and have no sense of morality; I hope all your cakes are stolen to teach you a lesson!" You leave the shop and make your way home.
Hopefully after reading this you realise just how insane your argument is. You are trying to tell me (as well as some others) that because something is bad and the makers lied by saying it was good it gives you the right to steal it? You think they are wrong for lying in their advertisements and then try to say that stealing is ok, can you not see the massive contradiction there?! It's insane.
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Can I claim that your analogy is insane too?
Especially seeing how people do legitimately complain (especially on the forums and elsewhere) about how bad the game is.
Now your analogy (which was very difficult to understand, seeing as it was very bad) consists of;
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Not satisfied with the cake because of the price and the quality.
Not satisfied with the game because of the price and quality.
Being furious/annoyed/whatever about said cake
Being furious/annoyed/whatever about said game
"Unlike being a normal person and picking up an object in order to do criminal damage"
"Unlike being a normal person and picking up some non-existing item to do non-existing damage to the company"
"After doing damage to the shop, you ate that cake, as expected it was terrible"
"After doing non-existent vandalism and downloading data that is the exact same copy as the disc, you played the game, as expected it was terrible"
You then go to the store and complained
You decided to go to the forums, and complained (Then get your posts deleted / cut out / Edited lolBioware)
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I believe that your analogy is like a simple train ride going along smoothly then suddenly turned into an epic wreck.
Especially seeing the fact that you're downloading information that someone copied from the disc that they purchased from the store, which technically means that you didn't do any fraudulent action seeing as the information is exactly the same.
Your analogy would make (a lot more) sense if it went like this:
You purchased that $200 cake, even though you know how extremely terrible it was.
Found out some weird fucked up technique that allowed you to create that exact cake and you made a recipe list to recreate that cake.
Go to the store and complain how bad it is (Then run home and made that cake you copied even better than before (Less restrictive, but let's say more tastier)
You sold that cake to everyone else for a much lower price.
Now seeing as doing any form of vandalism (and violence) is quite different than getting files and uploading it so everyone gets the game free.
The game quality is as clear as day for developers to see the issue and actually confront it and explain how they can do better, funnily enough you don't get much developers actually listening to the fans and deciding to ignore them completely.
Pirating games serves as a "leverage" to make developers listen or that they will not profit as much.
Oh yes, by the way it is considered robbery (Scam), if you make up lies about "How good that game is" when in return it's the opposite of what you are asking for.
It's obvious that everyone who owns a business would like to make money, but not to the point where you have to be dishonest in order to profit.
If you like people who are dishonest, who restrict and control your gaming experience so much, be my guest, I won't persuade you otherwise. But it's not wise to claim one being insane whilst thinking it's perfectly fine to be dishonest to people.
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Can I claim that your analogy is insane too?
Especially seeing how people do legitimately complain (especially on the forums and elsewhere) about how bad the game is.
Now your analogy (which was very difficult to understand, seeing as it was very bad) consists of;
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not satisfied with the cake because of the price and the quality.
Not satisfied with the game because of the price and quality.
Being furious/annoyed/whatever about said cake
Being furious/annoyed/whatever about said game
"Unlike being a normal person and picking up an object in order to do criminal damage"
"Unlike being a normal person and picking up some non-existing item to do non-existing damage to the company"
"After doing damage to the shop, you ate that cake, as expected it was terrible"
"After doing non-existent vandalism and downloading data that is the exact same copy as the disc, you played the game, as expected it was terrible"
You then go to the store and complained
You decided to go to the forums, and complained (Then get your posts deleted / cut out / Edited lolBioware)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe that your analogy is like a simple train ride going along smoothly then suddenly turned into an epic wreck.
Especially seeing the fact that you're downloading information that someone copied from the disc that they purchased from the store, which technically means that you didn't do any fraudulent action seeing as the information is exactly the same.
Your analogy would make (a lot more) sense if it went like this:
You purchased that $200 cake, even though you know how extremely terrible it was.
Found out some weird fucked up technique that allowed you to create that exact cake and you made a recipe list to recreate that cake.
Go to the store and complain how bad it is (Then run home and made that cake you copied even better than before (Less restrictive, but let's say more tastier)
You sold that cake to everyone else for a much lower price.
Now seeing as doing any form of vandalism (and violence) is quite different than getting files and uploading it so everyone gets the game free.
The game quality is as clear as day for developers to see the issue and actually confront it and explain how they can do better, funnily enough you don't get much developers actually listening to the fans and deciding to ignore them completely.
Pirating games serves as a "leverage" to make developers listen or that they will not profit as much.
Oh yes, by the way it is considered robbery (Scam), if you make up lies about "How good that game is" when in return it's the opposite of what you are asking for.
It's obvious that everyone who owns a business would like to make money, but not to the point where you have to be dishonest in order to profit.
If you like people who are dishonest, who restrict and control your gaming experience so much, be my guest, I won't persuade you otherwise. But it's not wise to claim one being insane whilst thinking it's perfectly fine to be dishonest to people.
For starters the analogy was purposefully insane, I was comparing one "insane" argument with another "insane" example and you clearly understood what the message of the analogy was (sort of).
To go on you are suggesting that as long as you don't physically own someones product then it is ok to take the data representing it? If we start to think like this in the world then all manner of shit will hit the fan. For example imagine someone made some child porn, I got the child porn and replicated the data, then uploaded it to the internet. As long as I didn't make it or participate in making it would it make it ok for me to upload it simply because it wasn't physical data? Of course not it would be sick and I would get arrested for it - the same rules have to apply for stealing/using data of any kind even if it is not a physical product.
Going down your analogy is entirely different, you are suggesting that if someone bought a game and didn't like it and then made their own version (perhaps a similar gameplay system or genre) that it would be ok. Well of course that would be ok but that is not what I was talking about, I am saying that if you were to steal the data, it is my mistake about what the analogy suggested but in reality someone might buy the game and upload its information to pirate bay. If someone were to download this instead of buying their own copy because they though the game was bad (which is what the analogy was getting at) then that would be wrong (and kinda stupid).
Moving on you say that by pirating games people will be more likely to make them better, well this argument is still invalid. You are suggesting that only bad games get pirated but you said your self that Skyrim was a good game and that has been pirated loads. If a game was beyond perfect it would still be pirated because people pirate because they don't want to spend their money! That is the main reason - theifs steal because they don't want to pay.
If you are going to steal something I would be happier that you understand that you are actually stealing a product and that what you are doing is "morally wrong" instead of trying to make up some bull shit argument that stealing is ok. Stealing could be ok if you are stealing to pay for, lets say, some medicine for a dying child. But stealing to play a video game is never, ever going to be morally right. I don't care if you are going to steal, but at least have the decency to admit you are a thief and not some elusive hero who is sticking it to the big business companies.
And yes scamming and lying to sell something is wrong but simply saying in your opinion this is a good game is not exactly lying and it isn't forcing you to buy a game. If you were to say that this game is an fps with amazing graphics and you played it and it was a side scroller with 8-bit graphics then yes that would be lying.
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To not own a product physically means we don't have the right to have the data that allows a game to run?
I guess online stores are illegal now then.
But I know what you mean; If you did not legitimately paid for a copy of that game, etc. Once again, all I'm saying is that your analogy was so poor it makes me wonder if it's worth replying to you. Seeing as it looks like it was an intent to cause confusion, rather than getting to the point of the argument.
"...Going down your analogy is entirely different, you are suggesting that if someone bought a game and didn't like it and then made their own version..."
No. There's a massive difference between stealing a game and recreating an exact game. Once you have the data on your computer from a physical copy, that means you own that exact copy. Therefore uploading it is not stealing as you're recreating that data. Because that was piracy is literally doing. The person who legitimately owned a copy of a game, shared it online by uploading it to a site, no acts of stealing was done, if someone downloaded it, no one stolen anything, because it was uploaded by a user who recreated the data.
I am not going to go indepth, because I know that it would simply be pointless to attempt to explain as you apparently demand honest purchasing of goods that were dishonestly made, avertised and sold, the argument of yours would return in a "NO U" response, and you seemed to have no read what I have said in my analogy before, so it shows you lack of interest in making a compelling argument and have a moral standpoint despite that you look at the conclusion rather than taking a step by step look into the problem.
Before that you argue on my doubts of above, would be pointless, because your post has proven my point.
Panda, I've never seen you made-- or not even found the most slightest piece of evidence. You invalidate my arguments yet you provide me none yourself? Do you really expect me to take your word for it?
But obviously, poor old Activision and other well known developers are obviously poorer than a child who lives off $1 a day, they can't stand a handful of people pirating games. Oh my, oh my.
Panda, before you use secondary school style scan-reading, please read this in depth, it's not worth making a response to find out that I just start firing away back at you with a response that (is now) derailing the entire topic, you seem to be so surprised why I make these so-called "immoral" and "insane" arguments.
I did not endorse in "Stealing" any goods, but I don't blame them, because I sure as hell don't remember saying that I think piracy is the right thing, especially if it goes down to being too tight to afford it, and especially if he knew the game was bad that he wasted his energy in downloading it and playing it.
What you're forgetting is that piracy creates potential customers as well, Notch said so himself, especially to try out games. He supports piracy as well.
http://www.destructoid.com/notch-can-t-afford-minecraft-pirate-now-buy-later-219553.phtml
News flash on-topic real important
Just to make a compelling argument, not only does the PC have games pirated, so do other games. It also lists the most popular pirated games too, if you really think that piracy is going to "OHNOESEPICDESTRUKSHUNTOPCGAYMING" think again, oh the links I present are important. I can't wait for 2012 statistics as well.
http://torrentfreak.com/top-10-most-pirated-games-of-2011-111230/
http://www.geek.com/articles/games/the-witcher-2-has-been-pirated-4-5-million-times-20111130/ - A compelling argument for both sides.
http://www.geek.com/articles/games/gog-celebrates-6-million-games-sold-offers-broken-sword-for-free-20110929/ (Part of the link above, but this provides an excellent counter argument to DRM)
http://www.crossplatformgamers.com/2012/03/13/mass-effect-3-most-pirated-game-pc-of-2012/ - Potential.
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To not own a product physically means we don't have the right to have the data that allows a game to run?
I guess online stores are illegal now then.
But I know what you mean; If you did not legitimately paid for a copy of that game, etc. Once again, all I'm saying is that your analogy was so poor it makes me wonder if it's worth replying to you. Seeing as it looks like it was an intent to cause confusion, rather than getting to the point of the argument.
"...Going down your analogy is entirely different, you are suggesting that if someone bought a game and didn't like it and then made their own version..."
No. There's a massive difference between stealing a game and recreating an exact game. Once you have the data on your computer from a physical copy, that means you own that exact copy. Therefore uploading it is not stealing as you're recreating that data. Because that was piracy is literally doing. The person who legitimately owned a copy of a game, shared it online by uploading it to a site, no acts of stealing was done, if someone downloaded it, no one stolen anything, because it was uploaded by a user who recreated the data.
I am not going to go indepth, because I know that it would simply be pointless to attempt to explain as you apparently demand honest purchasing of goods that were dishonestly made, avertised and sold, the argument of yours would return in a "NO U" response, and you seemed to have no read what I have said in my analogy before, so it shows you lack of interest in making a compelling argument and have a moral standpoint despite that you look at the conclusion rather than taking a step by step look into the problem.
Before that you argue on my doubts of above, would be pointless, because your post has proven my point.
Panda, I've never seen you made-- or not even found the most slightest piece of evidence. You invalidate my arguments yet you provide me none yourself? Do you really expect me to take your word for it?
But obviously, poor old Activision and other well known developers are obviously poorer than a child who lives off $1 a day, they can't stand a handful of people pirating games. Oh my, oh my.
Panda, before you use secondary school style scan-reading, please read this in depth, it's not worth making a response to find out that I just start firing away back at you with a response that (is now) derailing the entire topic, you seem to be so surprised why I make these so-called "immoral" and "insane" arguments.
I did not endorse in "Stealing" any goods, but I don't blame them, because I sure as hell don't remember saying that I think piracy is the right thing, especially if it goes down to being too tight to afford it, and especially if he knew the game was bad that he wasted his energy in downloading it and playing it.
What you're forgetting is that piracy creates potential customers as well, Notch said so himself, especially to try out games. He supports piracy as well.
http://www.destructoid.com/notch-can-t-afford-minecraft-pirate-now-buy-later-219553.phtml
News flash on-topic real important
Just to make a compelling argument, not only does the PC have games pirated, so do other games. It also lists the most popular pirated games too, if you really think that piracy is going to "OHNOESEPICDESTRUKSHUNTOPCGAYMING" think again, oh the links I present are important. I can't wait for 2012 statistics as well.
http://torrentfreak.com/top-10-most-pirated-games-of-2011-111230/
http://www.geek.com/articles/games/the-witcher-2-has-been-pirated-4-5-million-times-20111130/ - A compelling argument for both sides.
http://www.geek.com/articles/games/gog-celebrates-6-million-games-sold-offers-broken-sword-for-free-20110929/ (Part of the link above, but this provides an excellent counter argument to DRM)
http://www.crossplatformgamers.com/2012/03/13/mass-effect-3-most-pirated-game-pc-of-2012/ - Potential.
Again like I said before, if we say that as soon as information is passed on to someone else then it automatically becomes their property and then they are allowed to do as they wish with it the system becomes very unfair. We have copy right laws so that people ideas and creations can remain their own, it is unfair on the person who created it if that product can be bought once and then distributed freely. Of course it won't have a major effect on activison but on small indie companies it can cause negative effects. Not to mention you would assume partly that games become more expensive if the developers know that a certain percentage will be downloaded, so in theory if they were never pirated prices would become lower? Possibly, it is also possible that the game companies would not bother because they like getting lots of money.
Yes, I suppose you are right that in a sense it is not stealing to upload but freely distributing someone elses product which was intended to be sold for a price to the user is unfair on the creator of the product, I mean that makes sense, surely? And my point about your analogy being different was the fact that you said at first "exact cake and you made a recipe list to recreate that cake." so that meant that you were uploading the game for others to download. But then you wrote on and said "Then run home and made that cake you copied even better than before (Less restrictive, but let's say more tastier", this made it seem as if you were suggesting the person who wasn't satisfied made their own, similar project. I had good reason to point this out as it was different from mine and contradicted your point.
Moving down once more the bit when I invalidated your argument was because you said yourself that games will not get pirated as much if they are better, but earlier in the post we found out that a game like skyrim was pirated loads. You said yourself that this was a good game and it is more in depth and so how could it have been pirated? I was pointing out how your argument was not logical and therefore was not valid - I am sorry if I didn't go through the trouble of copy and pasting a few statistics to make this point stronger.
The insane argument was simply the fact that some people thought that it a valid reason to pirate a game if the game was bad, that didn't make sense but we have been over this already, I don't think the rest of your arguments are insane and I am sorry if you thought that was what I was implying. The whole point was I was simply trying to point out that if you are going to pirate a game I don't see how you can say that what you are doing is the "Right thing to do".
Also I wouldn't say this is off topic, we are discussing views on piracy which is exactly what the topic was about, I don't see the difference between making your own opinion once to the have a more in-depth discussion with someone about both of your opinions is still a discussion. If you are so determined not to "derail" this post any further then by all means be the bigger man and not point out some mistake I may have made.
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Like I said, I won't go indepth in that argument of the whole uploading info and downloading it is not stealing, etc. it will result in a non-stop argument.
Moving on, the thing is, when you have the game data, you can copy it's data (data being the recipe), and upload that data to everyone for everyone for free (You made that exact cake and you charged people for the exact amount of cash required for the ingredients, seeing as your reality-virtual analogy was bad)
I don't understand how you could misinterpret it in that way, and even if you thought that my analogy was not about pirating a game and much rather "Recreating the game from scratch" then good news, because you dug yourself a deeper hole.
Even if you recreated that game, you can still have the copyright laws jumping to the publisher's rescue and they can make a lawsuit against you, or forcefully stop / censor you doing said project.
Whilst there is none that has occurred, due to either being in countries where copyright laws are not the same *CoughTF2Ripofffinalcombatinchinacough*
Moving on, you can sue or stop someone for doing any similar project.
http://www.joystiq.com/2011/08/05/minecraft-studio-being-sued-by-bethesda-over-scrolls-title/
http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/02/apple-sues-phone-maker-htc-over-patents/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=4aILXjBWuZw
You can even have your videos muted because 1/10 of the video contained music that is "Copyrighted".
Panda, you seem to be claiming you have "proof" of Skyrim "PIRATED LOADS", however even if you had proof I didn't say that Skyrim is good and it won't be pirated, I'd like to see your proof in your argument please, because I placed some effort in finding any evidence backing your claim.
The lack of showing that you're looking and using evidence backing your claim just means it's a random opinion, therefore attempting to invalidate my argument on such topics without evidence does kind of make your argument pointless.
You could potentially argue on moral standpoints of piracy, but to understand that game developers are still fruitful and prospering even if the so called "Chilling piracy statistics" are there, they are not bankrupt, or failing, or anything. Just that they are increasing piracy using unrealistic measures to solve the problem, and re-releasing the same crap and being dishonest to people, which will result in increased piracy. If they are so desperate in getting those extra pennies, then they should take the initiative to listen to their consumers in what they want to see, if they don't, then companies should not be surprised to see any unpredictable consequences.
Ding, ding, and another goddamn ding.
http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2012/05/believe-it-or-not-a-study-has-found-piracy-boosts-music-sales/
Yeah, it's music. But it proves the point that piracy increases customers.
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Hmm, well I am sorry that I don't spend 5 minutes looking up something relative to my case and lol copy paste the link and then claiming that I have a solid argument because I can copy and paste :P
Which is what you have done a few times, you have simply copy pasted an article from a journalist which is still simply opinion and then claim that your opinion is solid because you have the ability to copy and paste. Bravo, you have the ability to copy other peoples opinions and claim them as fact. For some odd reason copying an opinion does not make that opinion fact :P Oh but if you need me to "justify" this I will.
http://www.positech.co.uk/talkingtopirates.html - opinion
http://www.moddb.com/polls/why-do-you-pirate-games - opinions
http://dbzer0.com/blog/why-do-people-pirate-games - M0ar opinions
http://www.destructoid.com/notch-can-t-afford-minecraft-pirate-now-buy-later-219553.phtml - Opinion
http://www.geek.com/articles/games/the-witcher-2-has-been-pirated-4-5-million-times-20111130/ - partly opinion
http://www.geek.com/articles/games/gog-celebrates-6-million-games-sold-offers-broken-sword-for-free-20110929/ - some fact some opinion
http://www.crossplatformgamers.com/2012/03/13/mass-effect-3-most-pirated-game-pc-of-2012/ - mostly opinionated with 5 small figures
That was almost all of the links that you gave me and even the ones I didn't include still have opinions in them but they have a slight amount of fact to back them up. There look I gave you evidence, I'm sure you will still bitch about it though :P
Anyway this "debate" is becoming tedious as you are simply ignoring most of the stuff that I say because I didn't use copy paste, I was trying to debate using logic and my own opinions because I find arguing ideas much more entertaining than "arguing" (or who can copy paste the most) figures that someone else produced. Still, each to their own I suppose.
There is that and I also feel as if you are simply arguing for the sake of arguing (like you have done many other times) and I find it hard to even understand what point you are trying to argue any more, not to mention I doubt you would be able to come to any agreement with me :P
To keep things on topic I will hopefully leave you with my final thoughts on the matter: I believe that Piracy is still a form of stealing and is unfair on those who have tried to create something. Perhaps for some piracy won't be such a big deal (Activison lets say) and for others they support their game being pirated by some (Notch), although I doubt they would be all too happy if no one bought the game and people only pirated the game. I think that if I, you or anyone else was to make their own game and then they found out that a vast majority of those copies had been pirated I would be displeased.
p.s. If you want I could copy and paste this page into my argument so that it is valid. Because you seem to have made it clear that by copy and pasting something it becomes fact right?
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The argument you placed against me was an ethics argument about piracy. Ethics is based on opinion, however you attempted to claim that it was fact even though the opinions come from people from many backgrounds.
You do realise that your your argument was based on an opinion against me, who was in fact arguing with Soviet who seems to not notice that there are much more (and quite a handful legitimate) reasons to pirate games, and I was backing up my claims based on the guys who claim to be journalists and people who do/did pirate games, stated the reasons why, even there was a poll in a link somewhere to ask why people pirate games.
Piracy is all about opinion, of course, everyone has different opinions why they pirate games.
Soviet's argument was about how PC gaming is facing an armageddon, and claiming that the people who pirate games are clearly cheapskates.
I argued with Soviet's claim, which then you joined in you jumped in making an analogy which lead to ethics, however your opinion is arguable seeing as I found people who said they interviewed with people who pirate(d) games, I decided to hand in links which contradicts your argument, even though you claim mine is invalid, which highly suggests that what you are saying is not an opinion but rather a fact.
Just an FYI, if Mojang had no problem, if GOG had no problem (they publish, but distribute none the less), if CD Projekt RED has no problem (which looks like a small company, 102 employees according to their financial report) with piracy, why on earth should companies be that worried. Ok, sure they add measures to prevent their games being pirated, but it still happens none the less. But the thing is, if people like Notch allowed a game for creativity and then said people to pirate a game for whatever reason then do so, unless you are a cheapskate then all he says is "You should feel bad for yourself"
Your belief on similar projects being fine, even though you see companies abuse their copyright laws to prevent similar projects being made, or if there is a happens-to-have scenario.
To be honest, if I made a game based on how I like scrap that, my idea is an MMO, people don't pirate much MMO games unless they found a free hosted server
Let's say a game in my image is an FPS, but greatly expands on creativity (Half Life 2 and adding SDK for the users), if people pirated games, I'd rather come clean and make a poll on why they pirate, see how I can improve, and if it still persists, then it won't bother me, seeing as it is; inefficient - based on financial and potential customers and also a waste of my time devising unrealistic methods of trying to restrict players for the sake of piracy. Providing I make a profit (You always will. I've never heard of a company losing money because too many pirate games).
But potentially you might say "You have not developed a game so you don't know what it's like for people to steal your game".
You end the argument claiming I copy and paste, would you like to show me where I copy and pasted and ignored, I am not sure where you got that from, but ok. Unless you count copy and pasting links as me lolpasting things, then that does indeed suggest that you're ignoring what I am saying and want to pass off what I said is pasting.
Again would you like to point out where I pasted? Unless you claim that my pasting is the link url then I have no words to say, well apart from "Are you trolling?", because I find it rather difficult to find your argument serious at any level.
I still see that you have not answered any points, but rather pretend you read it and sum it up (I.e. copy and pasting LMFAOLOLOLO.).
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Well anyway like I said you have your opinion I have mine and once again to avoid us simply going around in circles we shall leave it at that.
Oh and yes I was referring to the link - If you had of read my point I was annoyed at the fact that you claimed that my arguments were not valid simply because I didn't "lol copy paste". Still w/e fun "debating" with you again, see you on the next thread :3
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I am sorry for being annoying by copying and pasting links and saying that you are pretending to read regardless whether you accept or deny that fact. I hope I didn't made you sore, but I'm sure those emotes will boost your confidence for the next argument.
Moving on, PC gaming will not die, game developers are making it seem so, in order to scaremonger people into buying console games instead, when you use consoles you are given hefty restrictions on what you can do, whereas the PC allows maximum creativity based on community contribution, but the saddening fact is that the developers are restricting creativity and are now attempting to restrict players from making their own servers, basically you need a license to host a server, I smell dishonesty.
The statistics from Bittorrent clearly indicates that consoles are just as likely to get pirated, and even if consoles do conjure up some non-existent 'security' to 'stop' piracy, it will still happen.
If all above fails, you will have people who will develop games themselves. You seen MMO's being made for free, completely.