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Half-Life 2 Roleplay => Topic started by: YankeeSamurai on November 19, 2012, 01:04:38 AM
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Assuming a citizen somehow found out the CP radio frequency, would he ICly able to monitor it on his own radio?
Or is this one of those invisible RP walls you're not supposed to cross, what with "combine technology" and all
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If the RP is done, and it has been authed by an SA, I don't see an issue.
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It /could/ be done, but you'd have to reverse engineer the radio as it is technically preprogrammed before a unit gets it and they shouldn't icly be able to change it.
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It /could/ be done, but you'd have to reverse engineer the radio as it is technically preprogrammed before a unit gets it and they shouldn't icly be able to change it.
We've roleplayed changing our own radio frequencies both for massive CCA-wide frequency switches, we've changed our radio frequencies temporarily to monitor suspect anti-citizen frequencies, and I've seen countless recruits being told to roleplay setting their radio frequencies for the first time. If what you say is true, it must be a relatively new thing.
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The way I've always thought of it as is a frequency update is done while the unit is off duty. But meh. It should be harder than getting a recruit and forcing it out of them. The only ones who would icly know would be high up in the command structure.
Radio's I've used in real life have always been programmed, and they had various channels programmed to certain frequencies.
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When I first started out here I stumbled across a bundle of radios and began to cycle through different frequencies and coincidentally found the CCA frequency. When I did join the frequency I quickly saw something like "Units, engineering teams have detected a radio intrusion" and I later heard in a separate case that it was against the rules (without auth) so I never really touched it since even though I have the necessary authorisations today. It has IC benefits but to a low-tech eavesdropper with a handheld set, I always expected them to be able to trace me.
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Tracing with a radio? Wouldn't work on a channel like the CCAs, there's too many signals on it and last I checked GRID didn't have anything to triangulate(Might pull shit from their ass through).
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If you could get a combines radio and then have osmebody with auths for some sort of physics and engineering combo mega knowledge they could extract the frequency out, or some sort of IT nut.
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The way I've always thought of it as is a frequency update is done while the unit is off duty. But meh. It should be harder than getting a recruit and forcing it out of them. The only ones who would icly know would be high up in the command structure.
Radio's I've used in real life have always been programmed, and they had various channels programmed to certain frequencies.
The ones I use irl have been programmed to work on a certain frequency but it's not really that hard to change it.
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GRID does actually have a means to triangulate. And it would be relatively easy to do, as only one individual can be live on the net at a time.
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We /used/ to have a rule against citizens using the frequency if they knew it. Don't know if that still exists, though.
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As far as i know these rules still apply:
- The frequency is highly encrypted and is near impossible to crack without tech a civilian would nearly never be able to get.
- The only real way to get onto the frequency would be to take a radio from a captive CP. They cannot be dead as when a biosignal is lost, GRID made the radio wipe so it couldn't be taken.
- IF you were able to take a unit captive and get his/her radio. It would not be long until the frequency was changed as a unit was unaccounted for and was deemed MIA. Protocols state that with any unexplained MIA, the frequency would be changed as a security measure.
Basically, GRID & The Union have designed radio's to be near impossible to get, crack and use. A normal civie wouldn't be able to get one but if an auth app was made somehow explaining how the civilian attained the required hacking and decryption equipment.
EDIT: Also, ALL units have their radio's now ICly built into their helmet/faceplate. It is no longer a case of taking an object, rather taking an entire headset from a unit that without careful RP, you would set off trackers, alarms and biosignal losses as units shouldn't remove their mask/headset outside the Nexus.
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- The frequency is highly encrypted and is near impossible to crack without tech a civilian would nearly never be able to get.
- The only real way to get onto the frequency would be to take a radio from a captive CP. They cannot be dead as when a biosignal is lost, GRID made the radio wipe so it couldn't be taken.
- IF you were able to take a unit captive and get his/her radio. It would not be long until the frequency was changed as a unit was unaccounted for and was deemed MIA. Protocols state that with any unexplained MIA, the frequency would be changed as a security measure.
Basically, GRID & The Union have designed radio's to be near impossible to get, crack and use. A normal civie wouldn't be able to get one but if an auth app was made somehow explaining how the civilian attained the required hacking and decryption equipment.
EDIT: Also, ALL units have their radio's now ICly built into their helmet/faceplate. It is no longer a case of taking an object, rather taking an entire headset from a unit that without careful RP, you would set off trackers, alarms and biosignal losses as units shouldn't remove their mask/headset outside the Nexus.
This initially struck me as the typical resistance-phobic meta-bullshit, but then again, maybe it's for the better. On one hand, I understand that gameplay could be unbalanced against the CCA by allowing any ol' civvie to listen into their communications. It's simply too easy for bad webul groups to obtain a radio and eavesdrop on units 24/7.
As much as I hate the endlessly ass-pulled CombineTech rules, I suppose they're sometimes necessary to maintain high standards. Only the most skilled groups should have the chance to acquire potentially roleplay-breaking abilities.
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The only group that has the potential to do this is Third Eye, at the current moment.
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The only group that has the potential to do this is Third Eye, at the current moment.
It takes the challenge out of everything though :(
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The only group that has the potential to do this is Third Eye, at the current moment.
It takes the challenge out of everything though :(
Does it really?
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Does it really?
If I was to leave my radio plugged in to the CCA frequency whenever I got on my character, I'd end up doing one of the following:
a) Getting caught (in the case of listening in on a regular basis)
b) Listening to all the OOC drama
I don't either of those to happen. :'(
It's a nice feature to take advantage of in extremely dire circumstances but otherwise if it gets abused it can just imbalance the whole experience.
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For concerns its OP. Sorry but its the combine who have huge amounts of resources. Basic encryption was ALWAYS there. Since my GRID unit has been playing he has done and overseen many projects that got it to this level. The radio in the helmet was a project. The triangulation and radio security protocols was a project. Ages ago, it was somewhat possible but IC breaches through lolrebels made us tighten up IC. It wasn't always like this but then IC events made it this way. Also, it is still possible to crack but you need:
- A large computer network much like the ones in Kleiners lab. The computers need a small satellite unit (Just a small one about the same size as an ammo crate, they can be made)in order to track signals. Finding the signal ISN'T the hard bit. However after that...
- You need someone who is auth'd with EXCELLENT computer skills, someone with a master degree in computer communications etc is suitable. This person then needs to spend WEEKS decryption the signal. It is a VERY hard task but if done, the computer will stand as a static radio. This couldn't be easily transferred to a handheld radio because of the combine encryption. Also, you would have to be careful as this sort of setup would put out a small signal that could be traced in the time it takes for th task to be done meaning the setup needs constant moving.
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Also, you would have to be careful as this sort of setup would put out a small signal that could be traced in the time it takes for th task to be done meaning the setup needs constant moving.
And that is why I don't like eavesdropping. :)
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For concerns its OP. Sorry but its the combine who have huge amounts of resources. Basic encryption was ALWAYS there. Since my GRID unit has been playing he has done and overseen many projects that got it to this level. The radio in the helmet was a project. The triangulation and radio security protocols was a project. Ages ago, it was somewhat possible but IC breaches through lolrebels made us tighten up IC. It wasn't always like this but then IC events made it this way. Also, it is still possible to crack but you need:
- A large computer network much like the ones in Kleiners lab. The computers need a small satellite unit (Just a small one about the same size as an ammo crate, they can be made)in order to track signals. Finding the signal ISN'T the hard bit. However after that...
- You need someone who is auth'd with EXCELLENT computer skills, someone with a master degree in computer communications etc is suitable. This person then needs to spend WEEKS decryption the signal. It is a VERY hard task but if done, the computer will stand as a static radio. This couldn't be easily transferred to a handheld radio because of the combine encryption. Also, you would have to be careful as this sort of setup would put out a small signal that could be traced in the time it takes for th task to be done meaning the setup needs constant moving.
actually any skiddie with a downloaded program can decrypt shit bro, you make it sound overly complicated and dumb - i use police standard radios almost weekly and we don't have a guy with a master degree in computer communications configuring the frequencies
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For concerns its OP. Sorry but its the combine who have huge amounts of resources. Basic encryption was ALWAYS there. Since my GRID unit has been playing he has done and overseen many projects that got it to this level. The radio in the helmet was a project. The triangulation and radio security protocols was a project. Ages ago, it was somewhat possible but IC breaches through lolrebels made us tighten up IC. It wasn't always like this but then IC events made it this way. Also, it is still possible to crack but you need:
- A large computer network much like the ones in Kleiners lab. The computers need a small satellite unit (Just a small one about the same size as an ammo crate, they can be made)in order to track signals. Finding the signal ISN'T the hard bit. However after that...
- You need someone who is auth'd with EXCELLENT computer skills, someone with a master degree in computer communications etc is suitable. This person then needs to spend WEEKS decryption the signal. It is a VERY hard task but if done, the computer will stand as a static radio. This couldn't be easily transferred to a handheld radio because of the combine encryption. Also, you would have to be careful as this sort of setup would put out a small signal that could be traced in the time it takes for th task to be done meaning the setup needs constant moving.
actually any skiddie with a downloaded program can decrypt shit bro, you make it sound overly complicated and dumb - i use police standard radios almost weekly and we don't have a guy with a master degree in computer communications configuring the frequencies
On an Ic side, The combine have much superior technology and i think that better, more complex encryption isnt a hard thing to do. Also, the guy with the degree is to MAKE such a program as you don;t just find a working computer with programs on it. You need to learn the NEW encryption in the radio AND make a program AND computer to decrypt it.
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On an Ic side, The combine have much superior technology and i think that better, more complex encryption isnt a hard thing to do. Also, the guy with the degree is to MAKE such a program as you don;t just find a working computer with programs on it. You need to learn the NEW encryption in the radio AND make a program AND computer to decrypt it.
we're talking radio frequencies, regardless of their superior technology there's not much more you can do with something like that.
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Lets just keep it simple:
You can some up with any excuse of why citizens should not have the frequency, and you can have a million page discussion about this being valid or not.
But citizens simply should not have the frequency due to a fuckload of powergaming and unfair stupid advantage involving.
Excuses or valid reasons, it simply should not be allowed.
And that is just my two cents.
<::[[ Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S2 using Tapatalk 2 ]]::>
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Lets just keep it simple:
You can some up with any excuse of why citizens should not have the frequency, and you can have a million page discussion about this being valid or not.
But citizens simply should not have the frequency due to a fuckload of powergaming and unfair stupid advantage involving.
Excuses or valid reasons, it simply should not be allowed.
And that is just my two cents.
<::[[ Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S2 using Tapatalk 2 ]]::>
That's not fair, your cutting down potential RP because some people /might/ power game with it.
That's like convicting people of crimes based on the fact that they /MIGHT/ commit them.
Its really rather simple, you need to have a good reason(Your risking your life and the life of everyone around you) and the means to do it.
All of this can be sum'd up in a auth app/more then one auth app(Seeing how you'd need mixed skills to do this you can only do this with a group of people).
If anything this would create RP, but instead its getting shot down because it /MIGHT/ be abused.
I'm sick of good suggestions getting shot down because it /MIGHT/ be abused, it creates RP for both OTA/CCA and the Resistance.
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It's not shot down, its extremely monitored and 99.999% of the time it is done wrong making it seem that it is always shot down. As has been explained, it requires a LOT of skill to do so, especially with the resources available. It'd have to be done in the city cause the outlands themselves are too far and infrequent for radio use to be able to determine it.
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Referring back to one of my previous posts, I think that monitoring the CCA radio should be reserved for major events through a prepared course of action rather than simply being able to switch your handheld set to the frequency at any time. I don't necessarily think it should be banned as such because there are ways to capture the position of the radio which accessed the frequency and Civil Protection/OTA can easily stop that character from incident from happening again.
When we did the network intrusion event (http://www.catalyst-gaming.net/index.php?topic=18654.0) I barely received any negative feedback apart from citizens staring at the wall (not really in my control though, that was the Civil Protection response and I was only ever guiding them via /event and IC radio chatter). It was an event that was planned for several weeks where the appropriate knowledge authorisations were acquired and then the equipment as well as the go ahead to do the event from Kronic. In moderation, something like this is fine but it can definitely become an issue when it's overdone to the point of a daily/weekly occurrence.
If an individual/group does have the appropriate authorization then any negative OOC consequences will be accountable to the admin team who can can always provide oversight if the defects are not being met.
Just my two cents.
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why not just let citizens do what they want instead of limiting them with shit no one but admins will enforce by pulling it out of their ass? if the union has counter-measures, they can roleplay it (simply changing the frequency to a backup frequency, not that hard to have a list of backup frequencies in /viewobjectives, seriously)
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It's very easy for the units to write up a plan incase of a frequency breach anyway. I don't see what the issue is here, just let it act out as what would happen in a real situation.
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Besides, getting said frequency would be a mark of respect in of it's own right. (No meta pls) We should just let them do what they want in all honesty as there isn't too much a citizen could learn other than idle codes and requests.
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Besides, getting said frequency would be a mark of respect in of it's own right. (No meta pls) We should just let them do what they want in all honesty as there isn't too much a citizen could learn other than idle codes and requests.
Yeah, all they'd be hearing is OOC chatter and "Ice." "Ice." "Baby." most of the time. Even if they heard what we were doing it's not like Unit XXX is saying "Yeah, I'm over in this alley all alone and I dropped my weapons to the ground, does anybody want to come and give me a hug?"
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Maybe with an auth app or some shit. As much as I hate them this is legitimately one of the things I see needing it cause I don't like the idea of people going on their units, grabbing the freq, spending 5 minutes to roleplay scanning it down or some shit and then using it. I'd rather not allow it at all but I want more freedom this time around. opinions pls
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its better than nothing, yes please
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I don't have a very strong opinion either way, they could use it and it would bring in a dash of possible roleplay, but it could be used for metagaming.
(God forbid a lolgang gets their hands on our radios though, they're a pain in the royal arse as it is.)
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I've been supportive of getting it with auths or prove that you did the needed roleplay involved.
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Welp, my opinion still stands:
I think that monitoring the CCA radio should be reserved for major events through a prepared course of action rather than simply being able to switch your handheld set to the frequency at any time. I don't necessarily think it should be banned as such because there are ways to capture the position of the radio which accessed the frequency and Civil Protection/OTA can easily stop that character from incident from happening again if people are switching to that frequency on a regular basis.
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As much as it might make sense to a lot of you people that citizens would be able to... In OOCly, it's just way to 'overpowered' to be able to use it as citizen. Just imagine someone using this to know exactly what the CCA is up to, using this information to cause shit which then admins have to deal with.
This reminds me back when people always baited the CCA and lure them into S6 by minging and shooting weapons just at the border before we strictly forbit it.
TLDR: This whole idea brings more grief then it does good, which is the reason why I highly recommend not to do this.
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considering every admin besides rltk and roflwaffle are operators for hl2rp i'd say roflwaffle should decide on it
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It doesn't really have anything to do with people making a decision, though. It's always been an assumed and spoken rule that citizens cannot listen to the CP radio frequency. However, it should be added to the written rules.
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if its being added to the written rules then obviously a decision has to be made on what's actually being added to the rules..?
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considering every admin besides rltk and roflwaffle are operators for hl2rp i'd say roflwaffle should decide on it
If you think that this is how the administration team works, then you have much to learn.
Everyone is part to dicide on this. And obviously waffle/rtlk aint adding something if everyone disagrees on it.
<::[[ Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S2 using Tapatalk 2 ]]::>
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Alright, so Rebels get screwed out of something that could illegitimately help us(And would most likely be a one time thing) because "We could abuse it" that's like taking /all/ of our guns away because they can be abused.
The CCA gets shit that they can/do abuse all the time and I see no one denying them the things they want(Besides RTLK) in fact, there's LESS abuse on the proper rebel side(Excluding the webels that is) then there is from the CCA.
Some of the things I hate about this community is how the rebels get treated, in outlands we do our own thing and /VERY/ rarely get minges and or people breaking the rules. on outlands most of the rebels role-playing abilities are on par/above then most of the CCA.
Again, your convicting us of doing something that we will most likely never do. If someone wanted to minge with the CCA freq they would just scan all the channels till they find it, and then do what they will with it.
However you getting rid of something we can use properly and make outlands even more fun, but no, "It can be abused so the rebels don't get it." nice to see where most of the admins lean too.
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Alright, so Rebels get screwed out of something that could illegitimately help us(And would most likely be a one time thing) because "We could abuse it" that's like taking /all/ of our guns away because they can be abused.
The CCA gets shit that they can/do abuse all the time and I see no one denying them the things they want(Besides RTLK) in fact, there's LESS abuse on the proper rebel side(Excluding the webels that is) then there is from the CCA.
Some of the things I hate about this community is how the rebels get treated, in outlands we do our own thing and /VERY/ rarely get minges and or people breaking the rules. on outlands most of the rebels role-playing abilities are on par/above then most of the CCA.
Again, your convicting us of doing something that we will most likely never do. If someone wanted to minge with the CCA freq they would just scan all the channels till they find it, and then do what they will with it.
However you getting rid of something we can use properly and make outlands even more fun, but no, "It can be abused so the rebels don't get it." nice to see where most of the admins lean too.
Well jugger the reason I think people are wary of giving the rebels more power is..... that there is no set server requirements for being a rebel. The CCA at least has an application process and are to a degree supervised, by admins and their High Command. The rebels have no set leaders, it is all in character. As long as any Harry Larry and Garry can get into the "Rebels", people will be rather skeptical as to giving them any abuse-able powers.
The only way I can see them getting any more privileges than they already have is if CG has an official resistance group with an application process and a disciplinary system in place to deal with those that would join to minge about.
Or what Oz said, if there was a trusted RebelRP'er chosen as part of an event.
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Now, look at it this way. The only legit listening to frequency will most likely be from highly authorised, well respected and trusted members that are in a group that obviously isn't a 'lolrebel' group. You would have to get multiple people with ranging authorisations to even be able to do it anyway, and if they somehow get through all of that and are still stupid, theres something wrong with the admins, not them.
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That's the thing about the resistance that people don't get, just because we don't have an application process, doesn't mean that anyone can become a "Rebel" willy nilly, /NONE/ of the groups recruit like that, which is why there are no poor role-players in the clinic/crazies because we gauge their ability before even considering them ICly.
However for the CCA there is a /VERY/ poor application process and hardly any role-play gauging at all before recruitment(This is counter acted by the training/ranks). But the CCA is allowed to do a hell of a lot more, which makes them more attractive to new players, where the rebels can barely get a pistol with out someone getting upset about it.
Fact of the matter is, in order to get in to the groups that COULD do this(Which is only third eye and potentially the clinic) wouldn't recruit someone like this.
Its not that they can go and flip to the channel and roll with it(Which they can do right now) it'd be a very long and very hard process to get the radio channel and even then it'd most likely be encoded and that take some time to break.
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Juggernaut, look at it this way:
Why would you need the CCA frequency? The only reason I can think of is if you have anything to do with them. And in this case, you have two different type of 'rebels'. You have the so called lolrebels, who go around causing grief to the CCA, hence get involved in them. They obviously won't ever get the frequency. And then you have the more serious type rebels like you claim to be, who don't have anything to do with the CCA since they are in S6 roleplaying as rebels. So they don't need the frequency either.
What the CCA is saying on the radio has absolutely nothing to do with any of the serious type rebels, since they are all about situations happening in the plaza, which you stay away from. And even then, the only way how you could possibly use the frequency is to know exactly when a raid is about to happen, so you can quickly switch character and avoid getting killed.
Do you finally understand why I say having this frequency is way to overpowered, and absolutely not necessary?
I said it once, and I say it again: It causes more grief then good, so NO. JUST NO... (Please?)
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Juggernaut, look at it this way:
Why would you need the CCA frequency? The only reason I can think of is if you have anything to do with them. And in this case, you have two different type of 'rebels'. You have the so called lolrebels, who go around causing grief to the CCA, hence get involved in them. They obviously won't ever get the frequency. And then you have the more serious type rebels like you claim to be, who don't have anything to do with the CCA since they are in S6 roleplaying as rebels. So they don't need the frequency either.
What the CCA is saying on the radio has absolutely nothing to do with any of the serious type rebels, since they are all about situations happening in the plaza, which you stay away from. And even then, the only way how you could possibly use the frequency is to know exactly when a raid is about to happen, so you can quickly switch character and avoid getting killed.
Do you finally understand why I say having this frequency is way to overpowered, and absolutely not necessary?
I said it once, and I say it again: It causes more grief then good, so NO. JUST NO... (Please?)
Because it is useful to have, Rebels could listen in on CCA during a D6 or S2 or whatever the hell its called now and will change in the next map update, patrol and use that to avoid detection, ditto with me if we're trying to move supplies/people around an OTA patrol.
Yes it has its uses, no, its not to metagame and switch your characters(You always assume the worst don't you) its to create some stealth role play and allow you to get around them, but again, trying to convict US of crimes we'll never commit.
Like Rofl has said before, if this is added it'd be auth only which mean you have to give a reason/you need fill out a very long process for an application which no minge would do just to character swap.
Nick, surprisingly enough people can use intel like what we'd find on that to avoid giving the CCA/OTA grief instead of your pessimistic views on the entire resistance part of this community.
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Nick, if the actual definition of a resistance(resistance, not rebel - rebel is fighting, resistance is secret style operation things that arent attacks etc) then they would use it to its extent. Eg when shits going down in plaza or to find out how many units there are, what sort of code its on, and so on. All good for things such as propaganda, distributing supplies or moving citizens out without being seen.
Beats using lots of easily found dickers.
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If you think that this is how the administration team works, then you have much to learn.
Everyone is part to dicide on this. And obviously waffle/rtlk aint adding something if everyone disagrees on it.
get off your high horse mate i said they should make the decision not that there shouldn't be any debate/overall consensus on it.
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If you think that this is how the administration team works, then you have much to learn.
Everyone is part to dicide on this. And obviously waffle/rtlk aint adding something if everyone disagrees on it.
get off your high horse mate i said they should make the decision not that there shouldn't be any debate/overall consensus on it.
High horse? What are you even on about? You mean the one you are on yourself?
Isn't it obvious that either of them have the final say if it's going to happen or not? The way you said it more sounds like: "Yeah, you are just an OP now, so your opinion doesn't count."
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High horse? What are you even on about? You mean the one you are on yourself?
wow holy shit so good ahhhh i feel the burn
Isn't it obvious that either of them have the final say if it's going to happen or not? The way you said it more sounds like: "Yeah, you are just an OP now, so your opinion doesn't count."
oh okay then why did you say this then if that's obvious
If you think that this is how the administration team works, then you have much to learn.
nerrrrrrrrrrr
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Raged, are you here to discuss a subject in a mature manner, or are you here to cause shit with me? Because if the second is true, then you may as well stop before you make it worse for yourself.
<::[[ Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S2 using Tapatalk 2 ]]::>
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clearly i'm making a point about the thread but you like to act like you're on a high horse
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/locked due to flame