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Backup Sections => Archive => HL2RP Development[ARCHIVE] => Half-Life 2 Roleplay => Topic started by: JoshB on May 23, 2011, 08:30:45 PM

Title: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: JoshB on May 23, 2011, 08:30:45 PM
In S2M, how do you hit people? Can you roll for your shots? Or do you keep on shooting around them until you accidentally hit them?
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: lemonshit on May 23, 2011, 08:38:28 PM
Keep shooting, and after a while when you feel it's a good moment to, do it. But don't powergame it and make your first 3-7 shots hit with a pistol. It also depends on the distance. More distance = more miss.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: JoshB on May 23, 2011, 08:50:26 PM
So after ~5 shots I was hit, (not killed), from across the length of an entire C45 tunnel. Then my friend crept up around 1/4 of the tunnel, and he was shot until death in ~3 hits in ~5 shots. Then after ~5 more shots I darted across to the other side of the mouth of the tunnel, and was hit ~3 times in ~5 shots until I died. I was still all the way across the tunnel.
The three instances:
All the way across the tunnel: ~1/5 shots hit
3/4 of the way across the tunnel: ~3/5 shots hit
All the way across the tunnel: ~3/5 shots hit
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: JoshB on May 23, 2011, 09:13:23 PM
Adding on to that, one of them was using a magnum, and the other a pistol.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: lemonshit on May 23, 2011, 09:15:07 PM
Well there I forgot to mention something about the CP's. With higher ranks, comes more experience. Higher ranking units can shoot better than lower ranking. For example, Rcts should rp shooting like shit. But then, the experienced officers, or 01s, can shoot and hit a lot of their shots.

Edit: The magnum was probably the CmD (Commander). He is very very experienced, wouldn't be suprised.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: JoshB on May 23, 2011, 09:16:15 PM
Both of them were civilians who got their guns yesterday and had no training.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: lemonshit on May 23, 2011, 09:19:45 PM
Well then they're fucking retarded and cannot RP for shit.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: JoshB on May 23, 2011, 09:28:47 PM
And S2King somebody in the head, when you are point blanc and their back is turned is OK, right?
On an offtopic note, this got me and the other guy PKed by Toy. When I asked him about it I got the helpful reply that is my new signature.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: Arkaeth on May 23, 2011, 09:42:31 PM
First of all, you don't know my character's backstory. For all you know he could have plenty of experience with guns.

Secondly, I fired at least 30 shots in that firefight, and my friend fired a bunch too. I RPed everything in great detail, from crouching, reloading, sweating, and firing.

I'm sorry you lost, but you chose to take the actions you did, and we responded accordingly. The admins on at the time settled this matter.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: YankeeSamurai on May 23, 2011, 09:46:20 PM
I believe it is good technique to /roll for critical moments such as "kill shots," does anyone else feel the same?
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: JoshB on May 23, 2011, 09:46:28 PM
But the point of it is HOW we lost. In the time I had my body out of cover, when I was actually stuck out there because there was a shotgun blocking my path that IRL I would have stepped over, you hit me with around 3/5 shots. All in quick succession. I died in about 7 seconds of being out of cover.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: JoshB on May 23, 2011, 09:47:31 PM
I feel exactly that way, Yankee. No rolls at all were done for this firefight, yet they shot us multiple times from across an entire tunnel with no training while S2M was going on.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: JoshB on May 23, 2011, 09:55:34 PM
First of all, you don't know my character's backstory. For all you know he could have plenty of experience with guns.
You couldn't have experience from before the Seven Hour war without forgetting it.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: Sawnik on May 23, 2011, 09:57:26 PM
at first I thought the guy who killed Toy was being a dumbass, So I didn't know what was going on. Then someone did "/me aims at Fudo's head and fires. (I still did not know what was going on) apperently he did do a /me for killing Toy, but I didn't see it.
I think my "death" was too quick and I had no time to RP anything.

I agree they should roll on any "kill shots"or give the person time to RP or do something.

That's why Toy didn't PK me.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: Arkaeth on May 23, 2011, 09:59:06 PM
First of all, you don't know my character's backstory. For all you know he could have plenty of experience with guns.
You couldn't have experience from before the Seven Hour war without forgetting it.

Uhm, that's incorrect.

And if I had time to do /me's for sweating, they definitely had time to do reaction /me's.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: JoshB on May 23, 2011, 10:00:08 PM
I was right behind you and we were both aiming at my friend. You weren't expecting at all that I would shoot you. You moved a second after I did my /me, and that is why I turned around and shot you.
1. Right behind you.
2. Point blanc.
3. You weren't expecting me to shoot you.
4. Your attention was on my friend.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: JoshB on May 23, 2011, 10:00:52 PM
Except you never did any /mes that we could see, so we couldn't react at all. . .
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: Scratchie on May 23, 2011, 10:02:54 PM
First of all, you don't know my character's backstory. For all you know he could have plenty of experience with guns.
You couldn't have experience from before the Seven Hour war without forgetting it.

Uhm, that's incorrect.

And if I had time to do /me's for sweating, they definitely had time to do reaction /me's.

Actually, according to another post (by a HL2RP Super Admin) of which I will not find which is this: http://www.catalyst-gaming.net/index.php?topic=1636.0 , any experience from before the Seven Hour War  is forgotten.  Example: you may have been a EMT or Doctor before the war, but due to stress, rations, breenwater all that you can remember is how to do CPR but not how you know it.

So say you are a sharpshooter before the war.  Following the same logic, all you would remember is the parts of a gun, or something like that.  Not how to shoot almost perfectly.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: YankeeSamurai on May 23, 2011, 10:04:55 PM
Firefights are tricky to RP properly and require a lot of OOC coordination.

In my opinion, all participants MUST have CONTROL at ALL times.
That means all "accidental" shots should be voided.
All actions/shots must be roleplayed to the maximum AND shooters must wait for the other players to roleplay a reaction.

Shootouts must be taken painstakingly slowly, they're not just an FPS minigame with a few /me's slapped on.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: Arkaeth on May 23, 2011, 10:07:06 PM
First of all, you don't know my character's backstory. For all you know he could have plenty of experience with guns.
You couldn't have experience from before the Seven Hour war without forgetting it.

Uhm, that's incorrect.

And if I had time to do /me's for sweating, they definitely had time to do reaction /me's.

Actually, according to another post (by a HL2RP Super Admin) of which I will not find which is this: http://www.catalyst-gaming.net/index.php?topic=1636.0 , any experience from before the Seven Hour War  is forgotten.  Example: you may have been a EMT or Doctor before the war, but due to stress, rations, breenwater all that you can remember is how to do CPR but not how you know it.

So say you are a sharpshooter before the war.  Following the same logic, all you would remember is the parts of a gun, or something like that.  Not how to shoot almost perfectly.

As I said before, I didn't shoot perfectly. I fired 30+ shots, of which many were aimed far from the two. I know how to s2m, I've been RPing for a year and a half on multiple servers and communities.


10:00 PM - s0nicdawg: the resistence has a dug that makes you remember, Toy said it was Omega-256 or something.
10:00 PM - Hyper - Take it Back!: at all
10:00 PM - Hyper - Take it Back!: but
10:00 PM - s0nicdawg: drug*
10:00 PM - Hyper - Take it Back!: the thing is
10:00 PM - Hyper - Take it Back!: you dont forget things after the war
10:01 PM - Hyper - Take it Back!: thats just not true
10:01 PM - s0nicdawg: The water...
10:01 PM - s0nicdawg: We gave you the drug? right?
10:01 PM - Hyper - Take it Back!: yep
10:01 PM - Hyper - Take it Back!: you like raped me with it
10:01 PM - s0nicdawg: Well then you remember.

I'm not justifying myself as a sniper in this, I'm just saying, this firefight was won fair and square.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: JoshB on May 23, 2011, 10:08:25 PM
I agree with Yankee's post. Toy told me that all of the shots that hit were accidental (something I contest completely), and that accidental shots counted.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: Sawnik on May 23, 2011, 10:09:11 PM
I thought the guy was a Dumbass for randomly killing Toy (which I guess you /me killed him) Then I got killed before I could ask what's going on.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: JoshB on May 23, 2011, 10:10:06 PM
First of all, you don't know my character's backstory. For all you know he could have plenty of experience with guns.
You couldn't have experience from before the Seven Hour war without forgetting it.

Uhm, that's incorrect.

And if I had time to do /me's for sweating, they definitely had time to do reaction /me's.

Actually, according to another post (by a HL2RP Super Admin) of which I will not find which is this: http://www.catalyst-gaming.net/index.php?topic=1636.0 , any experience from before the Seven Hour War  is forgotten.  Example: you may have been a EMT or Doctor before the war, but due to stress, rations, breenwater all that you can remember is how to do CPR but not how you know it.

So say you are a sharpshooter before the war.  Following the same logic, all you would remember is the parts of a gun, or something like that.  Not how to shoot almost perfectly.

As I said before, I didn't shoot perfectly. I fired 30+ shots, of which many were aimed far from the two. I know how to s2m, I've been RPing for a year and a half on multiple servers and communities.


10:00 PM - s0nicdawg: the resistence has a dug that makes you remember, Toy said it was Omega-256 or something.
10:00 PM - Hyper - Take it Back!: at all
10:00 PM - Hyper - Take it Back!: but
10:00 PM - s0nicdawg: drug*
10:00 PM - Hyper - Take it Back!: the thing is
10:00 PM - Hyper - Take it Back!: you dont forget things after the war
10:01 PM - Hyper - Take it Back!: thats just not true
10:01 PM - s0nicdawg: The water...
10:01 PM - s0nicdawg: We gave you the drug? right?
10:01 PM - Hyper - Take it Back!: yep
10:01 PM - Hyper - Take it Back!: you like raped me with it
10:01 PM - s0nicdawg: Well then you remember.

I'm not justifying myself as a sniper in this, I'm just saying, this firefight was won fair and square.

The firefight was not won fair and square. We could have easily won with our SMGs and pistols if we had pretended to S2M, but really go all c0unt3r 5tr1k3 on you, like you did to us.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: JoshB on May 23, 2011, 10:11:34 PM
I thought the guy was a Dumbass for randomly killing Toy (which I guess you /me killed him) Then I got killed before I could ask what's going on.
He did a /me of pumping his shotgun, and then I whispered to him to 'Pop Y-R'. There was a reason, it was not random. And your death was legit for reasons I posted above.
Oh, and of course the reasons for killing him were:
1. He walked into my group and made himself 'Co-Leader'.
2. He rupheed me (Fudo too).
3. He took over my resistance group.
4. We wanted his guns for our new resistance group.
(I know RP isn't about items and weapons, but that is what my character though)
5. I wanted to steal his blackmarket radio and get the frequency so I could purchase things for my resistance.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: Sawnik on May 23, 2011, 10:13:29 PM
But the thing is, I did not know what was going on. Thats why I did react to anything.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: YankeeSamurai on May 23, 2011, 10:13:35 PM
You guys gotta understand:
The important thing is not shooting to miss in and of itself. The truly important issue is letting other players respond to your actions.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: Arkaeth on May 23, 2011, 10:14:13 PM
You had shotguns. Which is why we were hit about twice, as opposed to you two dying. Your weapons are near useless at that range.

As for your claim to us going CSS on you, PROVE IT. You keep saying this, but you give no evidence or reason to believe that it's true.

And in preemptive retaliation to whatever you might say, I'll reiterate. I myself fired 30-40 shots from my pistol. If I was s2k-ing, I would've fired about 5-10.

You're just mad about losing your character. If you didn't want to risk losing it, you shouldn't have risked it by shooting up people who are obviously going to have allies who retaliate.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: Sawnik on May 23, 2011, 10:15:43 PM
You guys gotta understand:
The important thing is not shooting to miss in and of itself. The truly important issue is letting other players respond to your actions.
I agree with Yankee, you should have atleast let me react or do something.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: Arkaeth on May 23, 2011, 10:16:32 PM
Also, I like that no one has pointed out that when they died, these two came back and "Operator," whoever the guys is OOCly, almost killed me with no RP.

They argued with me about the firefight, and lied in saying that they had an admin's support to re-do it. I told them to have the admin tell me himself, they ignored me and kept arguing. I went to go get some logs, and as I did so "Operator" got another shotgun somehow and loaded it, and started firing at me with no RP.

If that isn't a rule violation idk what is.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: JoshB on May 23, 2011, 10:18:02 PM
1. That is Operator's problem.
2. I said I am getting an admin about your S2King, I do not believe I said that I had his support.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: YankeeSamurai on May 23, 2011, 10:18:36 PM
By now, it's obvious that the shootout was very poorly roleplayed. Any characters killed should not be PK'd.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: Arkaeth on May 23, 2011, 10:19:30 PM
You guys started yelling at me to drop the stuff I had picked up from you guys, and I told you to get an admin to tell me, at which  time one of you said that you had.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: Sawnik on May 23, 2011, 10:19:42 PM
By now, it's obvious that the shootout was very poorly roleplayed. Any characters killed should not be PK'd.

Agree.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: Arkaeth on May 23, 2011, 10:20:34 PM
By now, it's obvious that the shootout was very poorly roleplayed. Any characters killed should not be PK'd.

How is it obvious? I was /me'ing detail down to SWEATING and SHAKING. If that's not giving them time to react I really don't know what is.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: JoshB on May 23, 2011, 10:20:51 PM
I have been calling for a redo all along. I think that Fudo and Y-R were fairly killed. (Fudo did react by whirling around and pointing his gun at the other guy, giving me a chance to shoot him in the back of the head). Therefore, the RP should be redone from the point where we are standing off across the tunnel.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: Sawnik on May 23, 2011, 10:22:05 PM
Again, I did not know what was going on...

If I knew what was I would've killed you both or something else.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: JoshB on May 23, 2011, 10:22:40 PM
By now, it's obvious that the shootout was very poorly roleplayed. Any characters killed should not be PK'd.

How is it obvious? I was /me'ing detail down to SWEATING and SHAKING. If that's not giving them time to react I really don't know what is.
We DO NOT care about your /meing
1. We could not see ANY of them.
2. You still hit us in S2M without any rolling, admitting it was on purpose. If it had been an accident it would have been voided and RP resumed. Therefore, either way is against the rules.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: YankeeSamurai on May 23, 2011, 10:24:05 PM
How is it obvious? I was /me'ing detail down to SWEATING and SHAKING. If that's not giving them time to react I really don't know what is.

That's good, high quality RP. However, you need to remember to let players react at key moments as well. That includes when you actually kill them.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: JoshB on May 23, 2011, 10:25:18 PM
Again, I did not know what was going on...

If I knew what was I would've killed you both or something else.
Your character did not know what was going on either. All you knew was that Operator shot Y-R. The fact that you aimed at Operator and turned your back to me makes it seem like you thought he was the only hostile. And it would be breaking FearRP to try to kill two people who have you at gunpoint. I know you had a weapon out, but it was lowered. Raising it would:
1. Be breaking of fearRP
2. End up with you shot, as we would shoot you as soon as you made a movement to raise it.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: Arkaeth on May 23, 2011, 10:25:58 PM
No, it's not. I was spraying the area around you, as I've said multiple times. That's what s2m is. Firing at an area. Naturally some of the shots are going to hit.

We couldn't see your /me's either. The point is that you had the time to react to what was going on.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: Sawnik on May 23, 2011, 10:28:50 PM
OOC'ly I didn't know what was going, I didn't know if it was that guy being a dumbass, so I walked over to him and had my gun up, I then was gonna ask Toy if I should kill him. Which then I was /me killed, and I had no time to react or do anything.


Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: JoshB on May 23, 2011, 10:29:11 PM
No, it's not. I was spraying the area around you, as I've said multiple times. That's what s2m is. Firing at an area. Naturally some of the shots are going to hit.
Which is what YankeeSamurai said earlier, all accidental hits are voided.
We couldn't see your /me's either. The point is that you had the time to react to what was going on.
We reacted by sitting there and shooting back, which got us killed by you without /rolls.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: JoshB on May 23, 2011, 10:30:14 PM
OOC'ly I didn't know what was going, I didn't know if it was that guy being a dumbass, so I walked over to him and had my gun up, I then was gonna ask Toy if I should kill him. Which then I was killed. Then I realized he did a /me.
So the OOC issue worked itself out. Also, I was planning on shooting you at the same time as Operator shot Toy. That made me rush to do the /me after.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: YankeeSamurai on May 23, 2011, 10:30:35 PM
No, it's not. I was spraying the area around you, as I've said multiple times. That's what s2m is. Firing at an area. Naturally some of the shots are going to hit.

We couldn't see your /me's either. The point is that you had the time to react to what was going on.

This is dicey shootout roleplay and should be avoided. Spraying an area can (and should) be done for cinematic effect, but no shots should just "naturally hit" a target. When you want to wound a player, you MUST fully /me it out. You also need to wait for the player to react to you.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: Sawnik on May 23, 2011, 10:36:39 PM
I think we should redo this.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: JoshB on May 23, 2011, 10:38:25 PM
I think you were fairly killed, Fudo.
To be honest I was about to stop you from turning around in LOOC, saying I was /meing shooting you as well. Then I just decided to go with the flow, and did a hasty /me.
A last point that I do not think has been mentioned yet is that there was a shotgun blocking my path when I tried to get to cover in the volley that I was killed on. IRL I would have stepped over this.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: Sawnik on May 23, 2011, 10:41:48 PM
I was asking what was going on in LOOC and then I saw a /me killing me, I was shot before I could do anything.

I mean how would you like it if i just '/me aims at your head and shoots' without giving you time to react or RP.

You should let the person react when doing kill shots.



What timezone does Toy live in?
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: JoshB on May 23, 2011, 10:43:23 PM
I was actually meaning to do that before you turned around, when we both had our guns up and pumped at point blanc, and you had your backs turned and your attention on wherever you were going. I am sorry for the misunderstanding.
After a brief chat with YankeeSamurai, we determined that you would definitely die, and have no chance to react, but we will give you the chance to RP your death when we redo it.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: Arkaeth on May 23, 2011, 10:47:51 PM
I have NEVER had a community that made their members roll to determine whether or not a shot hit.

Yankee isn't an admin. I'll wait for an admin to resolve this.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: YankeeSamurai on May 23, 2011, 10:53:46 PM
Yes, an admin will have the final say. I acknowledge that.

However, regardless of what experience you have, recognize that Catalyst Gaming is not your other communities.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: JoshB on May 23, 2011, 10:55:56 PM
Yankee isn't an admin. I'll wait for an admin to resolve this.
On an offtopic note, I think Yankee should be an admin. Please, Rofl, take Yankee's neutrality in this thread, even though his character is aligned with mine, as a sign of his maturity.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: Arkaeth on May 23, 2011, 10:56:23 PM
I know that. I'm just saying, no one has ever left something so up to chance when it shouldn't be.

I'll be waiting on an admin's opinion, though I really am not interested in risking my characters life again in a re-do of a fight in which I had no fault.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: Sawnik on May 23, 2011, 10:58:15 PM
So, we're redoing it?


What timezone does Toy live in?
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: JoshB on May 23, 2011, 10:59:53 PM
So, we're redoing it?
Sonic, I am sorry, but Fudo is dead. The most I believe you are going to get is a chance you RP your character's death. You should have gone with the rightful leaders :D.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: Arkaeth on May 23, 2011, 11:01:37 PM
If you say Fudo is dead, then I think you should agree that you lost the firefight that ensued.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: JoshB on May 23, 2011, 11:02:33 PM
If you say Fudo is dead, then I think you should agree that you lost the firefight that ensued.
And those events are connected how? The point at which the RP went bad is when you killed Operator when he was crawling up the tunnel.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: Sawnik on May 23, 2011, 11:02:48 PM
I never really "joined sides" I may have not liked your char, but I would still follow orders from you, It may seem like it because I'm with Toy a lot.

Are you saying im automatically dead, but i'll get to RP my death?
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: Arkaeth on May 23, 2011, 11:05:15 PM
The RP never went bad. You're biased into thinking it was because you lost.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: JoshB on May 23, 2011, 11:07:02 PM
I never really "joined sides" I may have not liked your char, but I would still follow orders from you, It may seem like it because I'm with Toy a lot.

Are you saying im automatically dead, but i'll get to RP my death?
The first note is offtopic, I was killing you anyways because you were with Y-R.
Yes, because of all of the reasons I posted.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: Sawnik on May 23, 2011, 11:08:01 PM
So when RPing my death I can't try to convince you too not kill me?

If we RP'd that moment again and I died, I would agree with me dieing, I just didn't like how I didn't get to do anything.

I'd rather have an Admin decide about everything.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: YankeeSamurai on May 23, 2011, 11:11:34 PM
The RP never went bad. You're biased into thinking it was because you lost.

The RP did go bad, for reasons that I stated already. You neither roleplayed critical moments in the fight nor allowed players to react to you.
And I thought you were going to wait for an admin to resolve this?
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: lemonshit on May 23, 2011, 11:31:25 PM
How about you guys decide among yourself. The administrators are not your Mommy and Daddy. You are grown people, decide it yourself. I don't care if it involves flipping a coin over a webcam just stop flooding the forums with it.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: JoshB on May 23, 2011, 11:33:29 PM
The administrators are exactly what a mommy and daddy are. They solve disputes.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: Arkaeth on May 23, 2011, 11:43:37 PM
I roleplayed everything I should've and more, and I allowed for plenty of reaction, which shouldn't even be in dispute given that they fought back.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: Statua on May 23, 2011, 11:47:48 PM
Unless you're authorized to S2K, its 100% miss when shooting S2M.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: Arkaeth on May 23, 2011, 11:49:06 PM
Unless you're authorized to S2K, its 100% miss when shooting S2M.

Then both sides broke the rule. We were hit as well.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: JoshB on May 23, 2011, 11:54:35 PM
1. I never shot. That is an issue with Operator.
2. There are some accidental hits, these are voided.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: ??. McBullet on May 23, 2011, 11:55:28 PM
S2M is a RolePlay technique designed to draw out the length of firefights to make the shootout more enjoyable for both parties involved. Honestly, we could all just immediately shoot someone in the head and end the gunfight as we control weapons using a mouse. IRL, shooting a weapon is difficult for the inexperienced. Hitting 100 percent of your shots as.. let's say... a RcT.....that would be very unlikely and very unrealistic. However, S2M applies to various levels of IC experience differently. A citizen should not be able to hit any of his or her shots from a distance. Hell, a citizen shouldn't even own a gun. A Resistance character might be able to pull off more of his or her shots, but should not be dead-on accurate. A Recruit is only slightly better than a citizen. Should not be hitting more than 10 percent of shots.... And as the ranks increase, so does the accuracy. I'll just make a list of what I believe should be a reasonable amount of shots hit.

S2M is 100 percent miss, but here are my recommended levels of S2K to S2M to use. The percentage is of number of shots hit divided by the number missed. A KING will not miss most if ANY shots.
Point-Blank to Close Range/Medium Range/Far Range

Rebel: 80%/30%/5%
Citizen: 70%/20%/0%
Recruit: 80%/25%/>5%
04: 90%/30%/10%
03: 90%/40%/15-20%
02: 95%/50%/30%
01: 100%/60%/40%
OfC: 100%/65%/50%
DvL: 100%/75%/65%
CmD: 100%/90%/75%
SeC: 100%/100%/85%
COTA-OWR: 100%/90%/75%
COTA-OWS: 100%/95%/85%
COTA-KING: 100%/100%/95-100%



Ignore my table. It's already starting to cause confusion.

Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: JoshB on May 23, 2011, 11:59:31 PM
A point he will no doubt make is that he fired 50 shots. The problem is (Otis sounding lol) that about 10 shots were made when I was out of cover both times. 1/10=10% and 3/10=30%. Very big increases.

Post mending powers activate: And I think the table is not very legitimate. I think S2K should be 100% S2M, as you stated it was. I think that people ranking higher on that scale should be able to add +x to their roll depending on their rank in that chart.

Just edit your post- Bullet

Forgot this isn't facepunch-Josh
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: ??. McBullet on May 24, 2011, 12:04:54 AM
Yeah. Well, I guess my table was already causing confusion. Should have worded it clearly.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: YankeeSamurai on May 24, 2011, 12:06:18 AM
I think the table overcomplicates things far too much.
In my opinion, the most important part of Bullet's post was this:

"S2M is a RolePlay technique designed to draw out the length of firefights to make the shootout more enjoyable for both parties involved. Honestly, we could all just immediately shoot someone in the head and end the gunfight as we control weapons using a mouse."

Anyway, it seems like the debate on s2m has been adequately resolved. Now, the players involved need to decide if they will redo the fight, and from which point in time.

And I know I've said this already but as a reminder:
Remember, you're not in your old communities anymore. Rules differ from server to server, and in Catalyst Gaming firefights are roleplayed slower than the norm.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: [FPSN]Bokslag on May 24, 2011, 12:19:40 AM
This, is a very long thread for one night. I have no clue what ANY of you are talking about, except S2M. Also, I agree, yankee should be an admin.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: JoshB on May 24, 2011, 12:34:04 AM
I suggest redoing the RP from the point where we kill Fudo. I warn Hyperion and Dav not to mingerun away again. That was a point that has not been brought up. Had they followed the rules, we would have held them at gunpoint and told them to drop their weapons. And Fudo can be there RPing his death. But if you try to whirl around and shoot us before you die I will come unglued on you.
A quick solution would be to void that entire event, but it would lead to metagaming, since we would obviously attempt to kill you again. Please cast your votes on which one to do.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: YankeeSamurai on May 24, 2011, 12:41:44 AM
I'm leaning towards voiding the entire fight. It's almost impossible not to metagame now. Toy and Fudo, for example. They'll have eyes in the back of their heads, conciously or unconciously.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: Arkaeth on May 24, 2011, 12:43:05 AM
I suggest redoing the RP from the point where we kill Fudo. I warn Hyperion and Dav not to mingerun away again. That was a point that has not been brought up. Had they followed the rules, we would have held them at gunpoint and told them to drop their weapons. And Fudo can be there RPing his death. But if you try to whirl around and shoot us before you die I will come unglued on you.
A quick solution would be to void that entire event, but it would lead to metagaming, since we would obviously attempt to kill you again. Please cast your votes on which one to do.

Wow, just no.

We heard shotgun shots, I looked in to see what was going on, and saw you guys shoot Fudo, so I ran like fuck.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: JoshB on May 24, 2011, 12:45:57 AM
With no RP of it.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: YankeeSamurai on May 24, 2011, 12:50:34 AM
Wait, so is Hyper for voiding the entire event, or is he for re-doing it?
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: Sawnik on May 24, 2011, 12:56:37 AM
It's almost Impossible to not meta-game, like Yankee said. I wish we could continue where we are but that can't happen.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: JoshB on May 24, 2011, 01:01:04 AM
It is completely possible, and what I want, to RP from where the RP went bad. At the mouth of the the tunnel.
To: Dav, Hyperion and I've Covered Wars You Know? we are RPing from the mouth of the cave. Please notify me when you are online. I have friended all of you. We are working on getting YankeeSamurai permission to moderate the RP. Thanks.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: Statua on May 24, 2011, 01:16:45 AM
It doesn't matter what rank you are for when you hit. I'm done with the rule "s2k in restricted areas" because it's a PK. It hit me last night when Keith was PK'd that this should not be happening. In other communities, pks need to be authed by another admin not involved with the rp (unless the player who's char is being pk'd agrees upon it)

So. S2M should be for all firefights now. No more S2K without an agreement/auths. S2K is only to happen on a few occasions:

-It is not in a PK zone and there isnt a need to s2m (a need would be a citizen escaping from a distance or they are involved with a firefight.

-The enemy is a NPC

-It is an amputation

-A PK agreement has been made

-Minge


This is not official but I will make sure it is soon.

Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: a great man - otis on May 24, 2011, 06:37:59 AM
After reading all the facts, it seems as if they were only banned because the ones banned weren't admins. That doesn't seem fair.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: lemonshit on May 24, 2011, 06:59:38 AM
Really, unless the person with the gun has the gun to a persons head or is right fucking next to the person, they should be missing. It just adds to the RP. That's it. And really, if you don't do it, then you shouldn't have a gun in the first place because it just shows you don't want to RP.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: Arkaeth on May 24, 2011, 08:21:47 AM
With no RP of it.

Again, not true. I RP everything I do. You can check logs.

So, besides for this s2m issue, I've done nothing wrong, and I find it a little unfair that I'll have to risk my character's life again.

That being said, I'll be continuing my RP as is and won't be re-doing any scenarios until an admin explicitly says that we must.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: JoshB on May 24, 2011, 10:21:22 AM
So, besides for this s2m issue, I've done nothing wrong, and I find it a little unfair that I'll have to risk my character's life again.
S2M is 100 percent miss
S2M should be for all firefights
What more do you want?
That being said, I'll be continuing my RP as is and won't be re-doing any scenarios until an admin explicitly says that we must.
The admins have already spoken. Also, please tell me all of the people you let into the resistance so I can contact them and tell them all of the RP they did with you is void. Have fun wasting your time.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: Rory on May 24, 2011, 11:06:23 AM
Bottom line, we shouldn't and probably can't have an official resistance, that is why Toy probably banned your character and disabanded the resistance... I have never heard on a official resistance on this server before and i don't want to. Wether im on my RAZOR or on my citizen, official resistance is a bunch of bullshit and it shouldn't happen.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: Statua on May 24, 2011, 11:24:29 AM
There won't be an official resistance. If people want they can be rebels but they're not going to get anywhere. We don't have an outlands server or anything.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: Arkaeth on May 24, 2011, 02:19:26 PM
No admin has said that I must re-do the firefight. Until they do, I won't re-do it.

As for all your quotes, I don't think you read the "BESIDES THE S2M" part of mine.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: lemonshit on May 24, 2011, 02:21:24 PM
Hyper, I must say, you really sound like a power gamer. Not everything always happens the way you want. You don't just shoot perfectly so you don't die. You die sometimes. Shit happens.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: Arkaeth on May 24, 2011, 02:23:12 PM
Hyper, I must say, you really sound like a power gamer. Not everything always happens the way you want. You don't just shoot perfectly so you don't die. You die sometimes. Shit happens.

I'm not a fucking powergamer, I didn't shoot perfectly. I'm pissed because these accusations are incorrect, and exagerated to all hell because Josh is pissed about dying!
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: Arkaeth on May 24, 2011, 02:25:24 PM
As I said. Until an admin says what RP will be redone and in what way and all the specifics, I'll be continuing with my RP. If one says we have to re-do the firefight, I'll do it.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: Badubis on May 24, 2011, 02:30:18 PM
Just to go completely back to the first point of the topic and showing complete disregard for anything else that has been posted on the 6 pages of thread (;D). Shoot to miss is a roleplay term that I've been awefully in shit standing with over the past 5 years of me roleplaying, seriously. It's something you can't enforce, it's something that you can't give a clear description for or put definite terms down for. Shoot to miss is something that has to be felt, 'when you feel it is right', 'when you think you can shoot to hit', etcetera, except that noone thinks alike. And whenever a party thinks they're right to shoot and hit the other starts complaining, yadayadayada. I think we all know the deal.

The only and actual way to get shoot to miss battles is to set the gun's accuracy ridiculously bad (say 1 meter spread at perhaps even 10 meters distance, of course with a fair chance of about 0.3 for the shot to be exactly on spot for pistols, 0.4 for SMGs, 0.5 for rifles, snipers a 0.9 chance of it being on spot, etc). Well fuck, mate, that's going to need some changes in the script! Yep. Yep it does.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: lemonshit on May 24, 2011, 03:56:51 PM
Hyper, if you really want to be mature. Just go along with doing it over. Being immature and throwing 'Fuck' around isn't going to solve this problem.

Sidenote, When you have a post and forgot to mention something or want to say something else, edit your post, enter a few times and do 'Edit:' and then what you have to say, instead of doubleposting.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: Statua on May 24, 2011, 04:17:49 PM
Were there any PK's? Items confiscated? If so return them and void the situation.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: Arkaeth on May 24, 2011, 04:33:56 PM
Hyper, if you really want to be mature. Just go along with doing it over. Being immature and throwing 'Fuck' around isn't going to solve this problem.

Implying that I'm being immature or throwing "fuck" around.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: Statua on May 24, 2011, 04:37:37 PM
Answer my question. This topic will be locked when someone does. Final verdict.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: Arkaeth on May 24, 2011, 04:39:35 PM
Answer my question. This topic will be locked when someone does. Final verdict.

PK's were handed out, and we took what they dropped after the fight. I'll destroy the guns and let an admin deal with re-imbursing people, but this doesn't solve the void / re-do situation. Are we re-doing everything, or voiding the whole situation?
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: JoshB on May 24, 2011, 06:29:06 PM
SOLUTION HERE: We do not void it. We change a small amount of the RP. Instead of sitting around and shooting at us, you guys RAN AWAY! Then we can finish up any time. No redo required! Post if you agree and it will be official.
And Hyper won't bitch about his character being in danger
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: YankeeSamurai on May 24, 2011, 06:43:28 PM
I support the above solution.
Seems reasonable and doesn't induce awkward IC problems if the whole thing is voided.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: Arkaeth on May 24, 2011, 06:55:00 PM
That sounds alright to me.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: JoshB on May 24, 2011, 07:03:07 PM
It is announced! The good people of Catalyst have come to a decision on this problem! Let us locketh this thread!
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: Statua on May 24, 2011, 07:08:18 PM
After being informed of the situation, I did not realize it was a rabel <-> rebel fight. I thought it was CP <-> rebel. CP's cannot be PK'd in PK zones which is unfair for autopk. However, a rebel to rebel fight changes my ideas.

Void my thoughts about the incident but remember the S2M things I made.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: alaskan thunderfuck on May 24, 2011, 07:08:45 PM
Nothing will be voided. All characters who were PKed will remain PKed.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: JoshB on May 24, 2011, 07:09:52 PM
And you give no reasoning why?
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: alaskan thunderfuck on May 24, 2011, 07:11:12 PM
And you give no reasoning why?
I couldn't witness the situation for myself and all of the stories are contradicting. I can't give a proper verdict when I'm getting 20 different stories.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: JoshB on May 24, 2011, 07:12:40 PM
Then void the situation if you are getting twenty different stories. I shouldn't just stay unfairly PKed.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: alaskan thunderfuck on May 24, 2011, 07:16:10 PM
Then void the situation if you are getting twenty different stories. I shouldn't just stay unfairly PKed.
You had been killed in a PK zone.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: Arkaeth on May 24, 2011, 07:26:39 PM
Okay then.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: JoshB on May 24, 2011, 07:27:07 PM
FailRP killed in a PK zone.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: Arkaeth on May 24, 2011, 07:31:12 PM
It wasn't failRP. You only think it is because you lost.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: JoshB on May 24, 2011, 07:39:48 PM
It wasn't failRP. You only think it is because you lost.
The admins have said it was not good S2M. The reasons Rofl has given:

I couldn't witness the situation for myself and all of the stories are contradicting. I can't give a proper verdict when I'm getting 20 different stories.

1. Easily solvable, just void it and redo it, while watching it yourself.
2. We all agree on what happened. The thing you and Toy seem to not be responding about is the rules around S2M.

You had been killed in a PK zone.

As the admins have said, I believe, it was a bad S2M kill.

Where guns are concerned rp = basicaly void

Thank you for that tidbit showing your attitude towards working out situations for your players, Toy.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: Arkaeth on May 24, 2011, 07:41:32 PM
I said it was good RP, not s2m.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: JoshB on May 24, 2011, 07:46:02 PM
And we have a confession.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: Arkaeth on May 24, 2011, 07:47:27 PM
No, I'm just done with this argument and your inability to let it go or understand the terms you're using.

The fight was fair, and Rofl has made his decision. I'll be continuing RP as it was going. Hyperion out.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: Sawnik on May 24, 2011, 07:53:55 PM
Agree with Rofl.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: JoshB on May 24, 2011, 07:54:26 PM
No, I'm just done with this argument and your inability to let it go or understand the terms you're using.

The fight was fair, and Rofl has made his decision. I'll be continuing RP as it was going. Hyperion out.
Rofl has not been presented with the correct information. You seemed not happy about risking your character's life. Imagine if your char was PKed unfairly. Would you keep arguing for him?
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: Kitten on Crack on May 24, 2011, 07:55:19 PM
It has been solved there is no need to continue the arguing...
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: Arkaeth on May 24, 2011, 07:56:50 PM
Except it wasn't unfair. Your only argument to that was that I s2k'd, which I didn't. I'm done here.
Title: Re: S2M Rule Clarification
Post by: JoshB on May 24, 2011, 07:57:24 PM
It has been solved there is no need to continue the arguing...

I couldn't witness the situation for myself and all of the stories are contradicting. I can't give a proper verdict when I'm getting 20 different stories.

1. Easily solvable, just void it and redo it, while watching it yourself.
2. We all agree on what happened. The thing you and Toy seem to not be responding about is the rules around S2M.

You had been killed in a PK zone.

As the admins have said, I believe, it was not an bad S2M kill.
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