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Half-Life 2 Roleplay => Topic started by: Hazard Time on May 29, 2012, 10:32:30 AM
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The other day, me, Triv, and someone else (Sorry for forgetting your name :'( ) were on a weekly patrol of the Outlands when we suddenly got ambushed. Twice. Every time, no matter how hard I tried, I could not help but lolheadshot them. There are two reasons for this:
1. The training we receive (Both the OTA and CCA) focuses on S2K. It is completely unrealistic (In RP standards) because we are never trained to shoot to miss. You can tell us and punish us in the field to make us S2M, but when our training instructs us to S2K, you can't fix instinct.
2. WHAT ARE YOU ALL DOING SHOOTING AT US IN THE FIRST PLACE?! Seriously, the two people that I "accidentally" headshotted suddenly cried out in OOC as if I had just pulled a Gordon Freeman on them. The first time might have been instinct, but the second time I was definitely shooting to miss. In either case, my statement to all anti-citizens is: If you shoot at us, you are putting forth that you are just as willing to die as you are to kill us. If that is the case, then don't bitch in OOC when we shoot to miss and end up killing you with a lucky headshot. On top of that, you can't always expect us to shoot to miss, especially when, realistically, we have the capability to put a bullet through your head from 100 meters away.
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S2M is only there to extend the RP and make it more fun for people. Even though you're supposed to S2M, they still have to RP sometimes that they got hit. Otherwise.. overwatch soldier missing all shots at 5 meters = no.
Lolheadshotting is.. kinda bad and if the training only focuses on that whoever trains you need to fix that
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I don't have an OTA character, but it sounds like to me that if you're ambushed by anti-citizens going against how they should be logically RPing (which is hiding from the OTA) and deciding to engage you, rules of engagement should be able to be followed by the defending party. Which would be for the OTA, if you're fired upon without firing first, you should be authorized and allowed to shoot to kill and use your training.
Honestly, I say fuck shooting to miss in 50% of the situations where gunfights arise. The only time I support shooting to miss is for the sake of beefing up the gunfight because no one is actually going to die in the end, or if both parties understand what the outcome is going to be, whatever it may be, and there is no bitching in OOC afterwards. I know we can't exactly do it, but I truly wish that those with OTA and CCA characters could just shoot to kill if they're attacked first, regardless of its point blank, or long range.
Although then again, there will always be units who can't be trusted with the authorization to fire their weapon using their own judgement, which is the only thing that really has me supporting shooting to miss.
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Here's the thing(And no I wasn't part of the ambushes) OTA should get defeated a few times that way its funner for both parties OTA still can win more than resistance but remember these are ambushes your surprised and if don't properly taking fire from more than one side, you will take quite a bit of loss there's nothing that'll stop that if its done properly.
My problem is when OTA come on and EXPECT to win and DEMAND to win which is a problem with the combine side of CG.
Heres the main problem with Hl2rp(At least in CG) is the majority of the admins are infact high command(Or former) which in my mind tends to create bias which is fine on the city, but that bias is creating a rift where there are people who are fed up with having to lose each and every fight with OTA no matter what they do, the only time OTA ever seem to PTL is when the admins tell them before hand to PTL.
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Like when two ota units came into the alliance valley, were surrounded by 8+ armed rebels, and somehow managed to survive, steal our radio frequency fom a bystander, and leave without getting a single hit. That happened after i got extreme marksmanship auths with my sniper so really, they wouldnt have been able to leave without gettig hit...
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Jugg, if people attack an OTA patrol, and then win, the valley would pretty much be leveled. A sign of a resistance group strong and daring enough to start poking holes in the Union's illusion of immortality would invoke a huge response.
Units should S2H if they're mature. S2K until you see a single bullet hit, and then toss the rest of your shots a mile away.
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Most of my inspiration for this post comes from the battle history of the US military. In Vietnam and currently in Iraq/Afghanistan, many engagements between insurgents and conventional forces occur. While US marines have taken casualties, NEVER, in either war, did they lose an engagement. Just recently, a squad of 3 US Navy Seals, fighting to the last man, fought off more than 100 insurgents before finally being rescued.
TL;DR?
OTA should take more casualties, but I am not about to believe that poorly trained insurgents, unless heavily armed and organized, should have a chance at winning a battle.
Another last minute thought: If OTA are as incompetent as we are forced to act, then why did the rebels need Gordon Freeman in order to start the rebellion?
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Most of my inspiration for this post comes from the battle history of the US military. In Vietnam and currently in Iraq/Afghanistan, many engagements between insurgents and conventional forces occur. While US marines have taken casualties, NEVER, in either war, did they lose an engagement. Just recently, a squad of 3 US Navy Seals, fighting to the last man, fought off more than 100 insurgents before finally being rescued.
OTA aren't US soldiers, They don't have the same firepower, same tactics(And in vietnam it was burn everything from the sky.) But let's forget realism and remember THIS IS A GAME BASED ON A GAME(Yo dawg) in Syria the rebels are fighting the military and only losing due to the fact that the military has more hardware then them(Tanks and such) when in hl2 OTA only have their pulse rifles which evens the odds a bit.
And if someone brings up their armor I'll rip your guts out trough your neck.
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COTA loose = 100000000000000000 more storm the valley and slaughter everyone. Because the Union is not fond of lolwebuls having pulse rifles and armor. Or they'd just drop a fucking nuke.
And, their armor would stop MOST FUCKING BULLETS unless you have 2 anzio 20 mills strapped to your arms.
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COTA loose = 100000000000000000 more storm the valley and slaughter everyone. Because the Union is not fond of lolwebuls having pulse rifles and armor. Or they'd just drop a fucking nuke.
And, their armor would stop MOST FUCKING BULLETS unless you have 2 anzio 20 mills strapped to your arms.
Grab your fire extinguisher, here comes the flame war...
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COTA loose = 100000000000000000 more storm the valley and slaughter everyone. Because the Union is not fond of lolwebuls having pulse rifles and armor. Or they'd just drop a fucking nuke.
And, their armor would stop MOST FUCKING BULLETS unless you have 2 anzio 20 mills strapped to your arms.
Uhhh. In HL2 you can kill OTA with a pistol or crowbar. Are you being serious?
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Jugg, you're right - OTA aren't US soldiers. They're way better.
OTA are physically and mentally augmented, and have been mentally hard wired not to route. They are supported by shizloads of APCs, Airwatch, artillery and (more irregularly) synthetics.
That's not even mentioning the far superior supply chain (OTA can afford to hose around ammo, refugees can't.)
Outlands refugees winning against a patrol pretty much declares open season.
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Jugg, you're right - OTA aren't US soldiers. They're way better.
OTA are physically and mentally augmented, and have been mentally hard wired not to route. They are supported by shizloads of APCs, Airwatch, artillery and (more irregularly) synthetics.
That's not even mentioning the far superior supply chain (OTA can afford to hose around ammo, refugees can't.)
Outlands refugees winning against a patrol pretty much declares open season.
If I didn't suck at typing on my iPhone (I'm on a computer now), I totally would have said this. RL similarities aside, when the average OTA Soldier is not busy fulfilling directives, patrolling, or recharging their augment batteries, it is not hard to imagine that they are constantly drilling.
As for Statua's marksmanship auths, I have no problem with him using those auths to take out a few soldiers, and I think we need to deal with those soldiers who think they are too elite to die. OTA are supposed to be a-dime-a-dozen, same with CCA.
As for the armor, I told myself I would never get involved in this argument, but I am going to state my opinion once: Except at point blank ranges, nothing short of an anti-material round (OSIPR, OSISR, and maybe 357 and xbow) is getting through it. Those vests they are wearing are oversized ceramic plates covered in kevlar.
That's my schtick. I would rather not debate it further, and I don't expect it to be taken seriously.
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COTA loose = 100000000000000000 more storm the valley and slaughter everyone. Because the Union is not fond of lolwebuls having pulse rifles and armor. Or they'd just drop a fucking nuke.
And, their armor would stop MOST FUCKING BULLETS unless you have 2 anzio 20 mills strapped to your arms.
Uhhh. In HL2 you can kill OTA with a pistol or crowbar. Are you being serious?
HL2RP isn't HL2.
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COTA loose = 100000000000000000 more storm the valley and slaughter everyone. Because the Union is not fond of lolwebuls having pulse rifles and armor. Or they'd just drop a fucking nuke.
And, their armor would stop MOST FUCKING BULLETS unless you have 2 anzio 20 mills strapped to your arms.
Uhhh. In HL2 you can kill OTA with a pistol or crowbar. Are you being serious?
HL2RP isn't HL2.
Also in HL2, if you put 5 rebels against 10 OTA, the most likely outcome is the rebels will win. It's a game mechanic, and it wasn't designed to be realistic. If it was realistic, then it would be like Halo where all your followers would die in the first firefight.
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/me Slams his face in to his desk so hard it breaks in half.
Alright... Because you people seem to FIXATE on the stupidest shit.
What I'm saying IS OTA PTL MORE OFTEN for the love of god stop pulling up "Canon" "Augmentations" crap and realize that this is a game, a game corrupted by CCA elitism and its ruining other peoples time because OTA HAS to win all the time.
Also Jack KmP, rofl, and all of the former OTA leaders have all said that a OTA will be dropped by an MP7 because that's what it was made for.
Let's forget realism cause mind you THIS IS A GAME. Its suppose to be fun, not "Realistic" or are we going to fall in to the same trap that the video game industry has fallen in to?
Instead of going "LOL you can't do that or all of the combine will be after you" Instead lets go "Alright lets let the rebels win but for a bit we'll ramp up patrols for a time".
That's called making the roleplay dynamic which CG seems to be lacking in.
But no instead the CCA leaders(Admins) get to make the calls and say that OTA can't be defeated ever with out causing a massive invasion(Because they clearly don't have anything else to do or aren't spread so thin and that's why the resistance didn't win with a massive offensive) and all resistance RP besides going LOL let's plan but never do anything gets killed and has its own body shoved up its ass.
Its nice to know that resistance RP is still under every fucking thing in the universe including the none existence citizen roleplay.
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ill take another leaf from TnBs book (and so should you), in terminator RP, if you applied and got a Terminator, it wasn't a "character" it was a "tool", for RP.
Sure you might want to "advanced" your OTA unit but it's main purpose should be to provide heavy resistance to the rebels? I'm not saying OTA die every time but you should be prepared to lose 50-70% of the time, depending on all the RP that happened, you shouldn't be like "oh im ota i dont die im big combine big augments!!!"
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ill take another leaf from TnBs book (and so should you), in terminator RP, if you applied and got a Terminator, it wasn't a "character" it was a "tool", for RP.
Sure you might want to "advanced" your OTA unit but it's main purpose should be to provide heavy resistance to the rebels? I'm not saying OTA die every time but you should be prepared to lose 50-70% of the time, depending on all the RP that happened, you shouldn't be like "oh im ota i dont die im big combine big augments!!!"
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Your there to make people work together in groups, To give people something to join forces to fight and make bands to fight not just to "Instill fear RP" Which we get enough from lack of ammo.
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ill take another leaf from TnBs book (and so should you), in terminator RP, if you applied and got a Terminator, it wasn't a "character" it was a "tool", for RP.
Sure you might want to "advanced" your OTA unit but it's main purpose should be to provide heavy resistance to the rebels? I'm not saying OTA die every time but you should be prepared to lose 50-70% of the time, depending on all the RP that happened, you shouldn't be like "oh im ota i dont die im big combine big augments!!!"
^^^^^
Your there to make people work together in groups, To give people something to join forces to fight and make bands to fight not just to "Instill fear RP" Which we get enough from lack of ammo.
The OTA aren't there for rebels to shoot at like it sounds like you're saying. They actually are there to instill fear RP. One of the reasons why OTA units don't accept dying very often is partly OOC. Its the fact that if their patrols got ambushed and wiped out, or defeated in any way with loss of units in the attack, there would be so many loose weapons in the outlands, people would trade them as currency. Sure, its alright to have a few guns here and there in the outlands, but even still, we don't need everybody walking around with them.
Also, neither party can be satisfied, regardless of what's done. If OTA patrols are required to P2L far more often, the OTA units will complain because of how illogical it is that they get their asses kicked by unorganized, starving rebels that have maybe one clip of ammo in a gun that won't even pierce their armor (unless they're using an MP7). If OTA patrols continue to play logically and rarely lose a unit or lose an engagement, the rebels will continue to complain about never getting to win.
To be logical, the rebels never would win. There simply isn't enough ammunition to have a proper fire fight and win against OTA units. That fact alone is enough to tip things in favor of the OTA to the point to where the OTA units would almost always have a landslide victory. As has been mentioned, they have extremely tough Kevlar and are augmented to the point to where they're terminators and are trained/programmed to never lose.
What you're asking though isn't too much to ask for in my opinion, but its not something that needs to be a habit. Sure, we want the game to be fun for all factions and people, but we simply can't cut out logic and a bit of realism completely in every situation. Remember, OTA units like doing their job too and aren't there for you to shoot at to feel bad ass. People get OTA units to RP being super bad ass. It takes a good bit of time to even apply for an OTA unit, since you need an 02+ ranked unit in the CCA first. Is it so hard to let them RP what they've worked their asses off for to get? I'm not saying the rebels should win every engagement, because you guys should have fun from time to time as well. Still though, more often, I believe OTA should still win, based on the circumstances I've presented above.
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I'm not saying that we should win every time.
What I'm suggesting is that the balance be shifted to were its fun for both sides.
OTA will get death roleplay which is rare in the CCA because of how hard people work for those roles, OTA are basicly faceless nameless drones that don't need to be PK'd every firefight.
The resistance could win that way we have victory RP, but take some loses during the fight(Injuries/TKs/PKs) that way we have loss RP that's rarely from OTA and from our own god damn people.
I'm trying to make it fun for everyone not shit on their heads, but I swear some times the elitism from the CCA is so much that it makes me want to quit HL2RP.
No it isn't "logical" for the resistance to win a lot, No it isn't fun to spend countless times hiding when a well planned and roleplayed ambush would cause a lot of fun RP for OTA because, when RP'd well a death can be just as fun as any other roleplay in the server.
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OTA are all augmented with heavy machinery, don't tell me there won't be any defects with machines. OTA can have many things wrong with them, almost all of the rebels in HL2RP are 100 percent human. Some humans are augmented with bionic arms or legs (which I find fucking dumb), but they have affects and defects, humans have affects and defects. If to balance and simplify rp, Make a T-chart or something that we can look at to see what the difference is both Pros and Cons with Humans and OTA so we don't feel like one another is too powerful.
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OTA is a tool for RP, nothing more. They are there to create RP for the Resistance faction, so losing most of the encounters is expected.
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OTA r god so thay win.
But seriously, in Half-Life 2, hitting a citizen across the head with a stun-baton is enough to kill them, so don't expect winning too much against OTA. (http://youtu.be/a7OiC6MjijY?t=1m15s)
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But, yet a crowbar to the cps face kills him?
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I wasn't planning on replying, but you all seem to be forgetting something:
In the game, You (Freeman) had an HEV suit, which basicly made you superhuman, so with the HEV suit of course you could crowbar any enemy and live.
HL2RP- HEV suit is nonexistant, the closest thing would be a DvL+ with augmentations.
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I have no problem with OTA taking casualties. In fact, I would push for that. I just want it done in a logical manner. If a squad of units are ambushed by Leonard Wong, for example, I wouldn't expect any unit to escape alive. However, just because you shot first doesn't guarantee a victory.
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It shouldn't just be "Lol it has to be XXX" it should be if people Planned properly and OTA Agrees they should take losses and not a total loss.
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I have no problem with OTA taking casualties. In fact, I would push for that. I just want it done in a logical manner. If a squad of units are ambushed by Leonard Wong, for example, I wouldn't expect any unit to escape alive. However, just because you shot first doesn't guarantee a victory.
Yea...Skyler Killed Len
on topic: Then hazard get the rest of the OTA understand that they will not always win.
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Not sure if this has been mentioned in this thread yet (too lazy to read through all of it). But we have new protocol for OTA outland patrols. If you attempt to attack us, and do not retreat when fired upon, you will be S2K'd.
End of story.
We are the Overwatch Transhuman Arm, you piss us off enough and you're going to have hunters, shells, choppers, gunships, striders all shoved up your asses so hard you'll be tasting plasma cannon. I have no issue with little hit and runs, but you would be terrified of an all-out assault from the Union because you wouldn't stand a chance of surviving. Just let us do our job, we're not allowed to assault positions, and we're not allowed to kill anyone unless...
A) You follow us.
B) You fire at us.
So to reiterate my point, you hear of Overwatch in the area you fucking well hide your kids and your wife and yourself.
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Not sure if this has been mentioned in this thread yet (too lazy to read through all of it). But we have new protocol for OTA outland patrols. If you attempt to attack us, and do not retreat when fired upon, you will be S2K'd.
End of story.
We are the Overwatch Transhuman Arm, you piss us off enough and you're going to have hunters, shells, choppers, gunships, striders all shoved up your asses so hard you'll be tasting plasma cannon. I have no issue with little hit and runs, but you would be terrified of an all-out assault from the Union because you wouldn't stand a chance of surviving. Just let us do our job, we're not allowed to assault positions, and we're not allowed to kill anyone unless...
A) You follow us.
B) You fire at us.
So to reiterate my point, you hear of Overwatch in the area you fucking well hide your kids and your wife and yourself.
Triv reread the thread please.
What we're suggesting is fuck the whole idea that "Oh herp derp you'll have the entire combine armed forces shoved you your ass" needs to be dropped. And make it so that organized groups CAN make an effect on the patrols and that they WILL retreat that way its not all "Herp derp OTA is teh basted and the rust should fear me and my giant e=penis" Which is what OTA are doing now.
You guys are TOOLS for us to use, TOOLS for us to band together and fight, but NOW your an annoyance not a TOOL for RP which the entire combine side of hl2rp is FOR.
People WANT to fight you, they WANT to be injured, they WANT, to work together. But there's nothing but each other to fight so that's what we end up doing and then we have GANG WARS not HL2RP.
But because OTA has massive ego they don't allow them selfs to PLAY the tools that they are suppose to they don't allow us to have fun firefights. Instead they think that BECAUSE they are OTA they think they are ENTITLED to victory when they're not no one is. Both sides can start taking injuries, it will give the clinic people to treat, it will give people grief RP, Revenge RP that's being PROPERLY directed at the combine not each other.
NO OTA shouldn't get to S2K when they get attacked.
NO OTA shouldn't always get to win.
NO OTA shouldn't always lose.
The Win/Lose balance has been way the hell lost some where in massive egos and dick moves so CAN WE PLEASE work something better out then this fucked up system we have? It should be that people banded together COULD with the right supplies and tactics be able to hold out and retreat from the combine assuming their backs aren't up to the wall and even then THEY SHOULD HAVE A CHANCE to kill a few of the OTA. But OTA when using the right tactics and communications SHOULD be able to defeat rebels that are attacking, but remember that the rebels are trying hit and runs not just "LOL bang bang you are all ded" its us talking over a plan and THEN fighting(After talking over who gets hit and who dies and who lives). In HL2 you walk in on a firefight before you get the buggy, its the resistance taking down a group of OTA in a stand up fight, with out Gordon there they would have been killed. But if they used ambushes they would have done much better, BECAUSE OTA are BUILT and EQUIPPED for a stand up fight not ambushes and hit and runs.
But I guess these words will most likely be said in vane because OTA will come up with some BS "LOL WE'RE AUGMENTED SUPER DUPER IMPOSSIBLE SOLDIERS YOU CAN'T STOP US" At which point I'll tell them this "I. Don't. Care." this is a game based on a game this isn't suppose to be realistic if it was we WOULDN'T have an outlands and we WOULDN'T have a resistance like we do because in your universe its impossible.
So IF you have an argument that DOESN'T involve being super soldiers PLEASE speak cause if you don't then you have no place here cause "What they should be" DOESN'T COUNT as an argument.
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(http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110405201016/mcleodgaming/images/c/c8/OBJECTION.png)
We're not playing this like the HL2 videogame, we're playing as characters in the Half-Life 2 universe bar the features that were present in the game so that the player could win it. (e.g. Enemies being weak, you being overpowered.) I'd use the word "realistically", but I understand the flags that would arise if I were to use that word.
If you didn't want to play as an underpowered, beaten down and weak resistance that is constantly under the threat of being squashed by the Union's boot, then you shouldn't have made a resistance character. Similar to if you didn't want to play as a cog in a huge war machine that has strict rules and requires you to have your humanity stripped away, you shouldn't have made a Combine character.
Simple as.
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Not going to get in depth, because I'm sick as fuck and posting from a phone.
Doctor, you call the OTA/CCA biased? You're the one arguing with a fanatic zeal.
Refugees are meant to be fighting a guerilla war. Sure, the OTA can take a few casualties, but defeats on the scale you're mentioning? Unless you were to get an alliance spanning the whole of the server, every character in the valley would be dead in days.
OTA are a tool for roleplay. But they have right to fun themselves.
What Triv said, to
http://www.rogers.mobi/internet
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there's never a perfect balance, the CCA/OTA minded people will want their to side win more, the rebels will want their side to win more, seeing as rebels are characters and OTA are just roleplay tools it's obvious who should have a slight chance of winning
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I must admit the OTA/CCA win a lot, sometimes I wish they would lose but not all the time cause then that strays from canon.