Are you truly safe and free from fear?

[Pielolz]

^ Another brilliantly well said thing of yours, Panda.



There are dynasties in Africa that live a worse life then you, Journeyman. You do not know the definition of living in fear. "Living in fear" Is when you know, that one day, men will come to your house in the middle of the night, take you away, and you'll never be seen again. "Living in fear" Is knowing that you cannot post shit like this. Because you'd be kidnapped/killed for it.


Stop listening to NPR and wake up. We live like Gods compared to most countries.

[The Doctor, RIP Juggernaut]

Well then Journeyman it’s a good thing you don't live in North Korea :l

You are free and you are probably quite happy. Also your talks of clouded judgement and what not our silly in its self when you obviously have a clouded judgement. The videos you have shown us our not good sources of information, they should not be used as way to change your views on humanity and all that bull shit.

The first video is an anonymous video. To start it is already bias seeing as how the creator is probably a "Freedom fighter" who thinks the American government is trying to take all teh freedom and make us all slaves to the man. Secondly the source its self it not useful for information. There are many omissions in the video such as all the clips are taken out of context, you don't know what is going on in the situation, for these reasons the source is flawed and bias.

The 2nd and 3rd videos are taken from Russian Television news team. A team that, odds are, are not too pro USA, I can only Imagine why. For that reason the writers are again going to be bias and leave out omissions of information. In one of the videos it is cut off and doesn’t show the situation fully. In the other they only do interviews with the protestors, they didn't do one with bystanders, police on scene or Government officials; not to mention there is no background on the events.

The 4th video may have just been a police mistake, as the ending of the video is cut off for all we know the police officer apologised and went on with the traffic stop, at the same time perhaps in certain states it is a felony to record the police while they talk to you for confidentiality reasons.

The 5th video shows how hypocritical you are. See now that is a society that lives in fear and under tyranny. Instead of complaining about how if you scream at police in a mob you might get hurt (well duh) why don't you complain about how innocent people in the Middle East our getting bombed? Some people are just selfish ey?

The 6th video shares the same points at the other ones, lots of omissions, no talking to the police, spun off in a negative light of the police.

To sum up, these videos are not reliable sources, and also you are directly attacking the goverment. "Share your thoughts, but more importantly, question the authority" - you ask us to question the authority that in its self is bias, before you even give us a chance to share our thoughts you are already telling us what to think.

If you stand for happiness and freedom then go do something about it. Instead of having a hissy fit about your almost perfect life (trust me it is) go out there to foreign countries and help people with your bare hands, go make a difference. Don't want to? If not then stop complaining about the "broken system" and keep quiet, because you aren't doing anything to help. I’m sure I have left some things but I will say them later.

Nailed it on the head a million miles away.

Haydn I don't know what the fuck is with you you've changed since I first met you on PEs GMR you're acting more like a jackass  than any one here you think that WE live in a police state here in America?

How about no? There are a lot of cops scared by law suites and bullshit like this that they quit or get hurt because they are too afraid to react with what they think is needed.

Being a cop you have to deal with bullshit like this every fucking day people who don't know what they have to put up with or don't even try to understand but blame the 99% for shit the 1% does, that's like saying that every one in America donates to the poor for tax write offs instead of it being the right thing to do.

Haydn if we live in a police state then how could you post this? You don't live in fear of people coming to your house and taking you away?
You don't fear that saying the wrong thing to a cop will get you shot? Before you post this crap(Which is most likely some 10 year old in his basement thinking hes cool) try to get BOTH sides of the story THEN judge.
You're as bad as those people who claim to be living in the ghetto when in fact they're living in a high class area and their parents make well over 100K a year.

[Pielolz]

^^^ That


<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6imIxpEWCA" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6imIxpEWCA</a>


<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMiqEUBux3o" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMiqEUBux3o</a>


<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3A7Px8sIPY" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3A7Px8sIPY</a>

[Journeyman H. [UK]]

Let's see. How should I answer these supposed "Well done you sure told Journeyman", even though I see no evidence backing it up. Well, apart from Renegade showing videos of Osama being killed and the WTC, which to be honest, shows that we use war to deal with the differences, and that bombing the country back is the right thing, somehow I find that it ruins more lives than it does fixing it.

Panda:
I read and listen from all sources of info. My local media, the more independent media, and the U.S. media (Whilst it's not shown on television, I see some people sharing the story). How can looking at both sides, whilst gathering information and making a conclusion is clouded?
I identify the problem we face. I then find patterns that have been repeated before. I then look at the two sides. I then make my conclusion.
This thread, so far is me questioning the authority, if it seems to hurt you so badly, you are free to leave, because by the posts you are making, it seems that you're clearly agitated by it, for whatever reason, I will be fair and not make wild assumptions such as you, making wild claims that I am having a "Hissy fit", when it's just a simple observation.
You seem to have not read or have forgotten what I am trying to say, I am not making a direct attack I highlight problems, and draw a conclusion, does it hurt? Seems to be that it hurts you where it counts.
I am actually working into trying to make the world a better place. Starting by efficient standards of living, such as better quality housing using modern, sustainable methods, that will take time, but I am hoping to achieve that, but that is only a small part of a wide puzzle we have, I want people to have a secure future children and elderly, they should not be ruled by companies.
This, what I am doing is asking questions and making observations.

But of course, your response may be "Wow, big deal, hardly anything!". One man can do what he is limited to. But I definitely do not have a self centered goal. My goal is hoping to secure everyone's life for a better future.
Just an FYI, I am studying in Civil Engineering, and I am hoping to make the best of it.


Renegade:
So far, I seen your posts throughout the forum, shows you have nothing else of interest but war. I don't know what makes you think that war is the right thing to solve our differences. I have nothing else to say but all I can do, is question your behaviour on how you solve differences in real life. With your outrageous lies of claiming of being in the army and so on, makes me wonder about you.


Juggernaut:
"Haydn I don't know what the fuck is with you you've changed since I first met you on PEs GMR" You seem to repeat that line a lot, running out of ways to reason or talk? You have not spoken to me at all.
(Oh, don't forget the amount of times you got proven wrong by people in Orange Cosmos and have done nothing but heighten aggravation to everyone, whilst it is somewhat irrelevant in CG but you seem to be bringing up the past, so I will too.)
A police state in America? Sometimes I wonder, but where I currently stand, I believe that we are in a police state.
I also seem to make you very angry about my views, you're agitated because I question and make observations and spread my thoughts?


Now, you all seem to be mistaken about what I am saying, it does not matter where you live, it seems to be, everywhere, tyranny and fear lurks somewhere.
Now, we understand clearly that countries such as Africa and the middle east are definitely not humane when it comes to solving problems with the people. But I guarantee you, our world is hardly any different when it comes to patting down the people who speak out.
At the end of the day, no one is right. But it surely does not hurt to make observations or to share views, especially if it's backed by evidence they present.

So the question remains to you three;
Are you hurt by the threads I made? If so, leave.
Are you just here to prove me wrong or to help? If so, post, and if you can provide me evidence. Share your views, don't concentrate on the negatives I am saying.

[Pielolz]

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7Yrw7QNx1U" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7Yrw7QNx1U</a>

Skip to 0:56

[Mr Jive]

Well to be fair Journeyman I have to be negative and I will point out why in a second. First to answer your questions:

1. Am I hurt? No, I am not emotionally hurt about your comments, I simply disagree with you.

2. Perhaps I am here to prove you wrong? But I shouldn’t need to use evidence to prove this, I was simply saying before that the evidence you put forward was insufficient, perhaps you have other sources but how was I supposed to know this?

So moving on I'm going to counter some of your arguments. I still think you have a clouded judgement for the sense that you believe America is a police state, but I will move onto that soon. When you talk about your sources do you mean general media? If so then you are definitely getting the wrong sources. What you should be doing if you wanted to come to a clear cut conclusion is do some hardcore research. Go to the library and look at stats on Police brutality reports, see how many complaints were filed against certain officers and in what states. Go down to your local station and ask to view how many arrests were made and of those arrests how many times were 1. Violence used and 2. People hurt severely because of said violence etc.

Moving down to your points for Jugg when you say that you think America is a police state. Want evidence that it’s not? Well for one this post is still up? In a police state like North Korea this post, hell this whole forum would have been taken down by now. We are not living in a police state here in the west; protest does happen and does get allowed. Recently public sector workers in London have all gone on strike and protested around their workplaces in large numbers. Were they beaten and attacked? No, because they weren't using mob violence, they are protesting but in a way that isn't forceful against others. This overall is the point I was trying to make before.

I guess that just about sums up my response to your arguments, I am not trying to attack you here, but when I put forward my arguments you seem to act quickly to dismiss them entirely, you act out against it and deny it at every turn. Yes police violence has been used before; the troubles in Northern Ireland are an example perhaps, and I am sure there are many others. But that does not mean we live in a feared police state under tyranny. Hopefully your response will be less in denial and as your said, fairer, and looking at both sides of the arguments.

[The Doctor, RIP Juggernaut]

Haydn the reason why I seem angry is the fact that your "Proof" is as bias as statistics.

You don't seem to get that most of the police in America(And possibly the UK) all fear getting sued for pointless shit.

Haydn the closest Nation to a police state that ISN'T part of the former USSR is England due to the fact that if any of your cops are carrying a weapon its a fully automatic and you have armed servicemen all around London, but even then that's not a police state in America you can protest all you damn well please as long as its safe to remain there(Hence the Occupy guys being moved from that park) but the moment you attack a officer you're gonna get whats coming to you. And while most of what they are doing seems cruel remember that cops are trained to subdue some one with little to no pain just most are cry babies or are resisting in a way that'll get them selves hurt by either the hold or the officer ACTING in self defense.

You seem to be getting "the 99%" Mixed with "the 1%" of the officers who do wrong or just following horrible orders, and I don't see American police getting orders to gun down any protesters with lethal ammo or hell even rubber unless they are violent to begin with, there are millions of officers in America and the UK(Maybe not as high there) but remember by the people threatening to sue on a daily whim it keeps the officers in check and allows the bad cops to be pointed out. 

The proof that you've given is bias and cannot be used due to that reason so your argument is there for invalid.

[Pielolz]

^ Yes.


In China, a police state, like in Teiniman square, if you protest, they will fucking run you over with TANKS.
That does not happen here, you have no reason to fear the government.

[Eclipse]

All I'm gonna say, I'm not safe or free from fear, because there is fear all around us.

[Journeyman H. [UK]]

Panda
What you need to understand is I am not directly attacking the police force, I am asking a question, does a question hurt?
Because you seem to act like I am out here to cause problems. You seem to think that I am directly attacking one nation, and therefore making a conclusion that I "Don't know about third world countries", I do, however there is no need to mention it, it's been slapped in our face constantly by the media, schools, and your friends, why should I ramble on about them?
I am far more interested in our country, and how we can improve society. It has to start somewhere, I can see that there are reasons why the problem happens and more importantly, give an idea on how to improve our world. I have not declared the United States or the United Kingdom being a police state, but I do feel that it's heading this way, whilst I have no direct evidence of it happening, so I base it under my observation.

I aim to make people ask questions more and look at every source you can stumble across.

Juggernaut
Juggernaut, if my videos that I have given to you is biased or wrong. Then you have to give me evidence to claim otherwise. You've yet to prove me wrong. But then again, I am not saying I am right and the evidence is right. But you perceive that what I am saying is right and therefore have to act upon it by claiming I am biased. Of course my words are biased, it's how I view it.
You just declared my argument invalid, yet you've given me no evidence or source of information that argues against what I am saying.
You've also misread the entire thing, I am not aiming to attack the law enforcement, I am aiming for you all to question.

Once again, if you want to say that my "Argument is invalid" please do so.
But at your own risk, of course, seeing as you've provided me with no evidence and note that I am not claiming that I am right, also on top of that I claim that I am not on one side in particular.
It's a simple discussion. Oh, don't forget that I look at the mainstream media as well, though it is mainly on paper, even though I can't post that, seeing as they hush up about those problems or that I can't find it on the website.

Renegade
Can you provide me proof of that story? Even though I wouldn't be surprised that they would do that, but I have not heard of it happening.

EDIT: Oh wait, you mean this

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-nXT8lSnPQ" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-nXT8lSnPQ</a>

Yeah, the man sure did get flattened by the tank.

[Mr Jive]

Journeyman you might not be now but you did before, in your previous point you say that America is a police state (so in some senses you were attacking it) and now you are saying it isn't, which is good, but you were attacking it when I wrote what I said.

Moving on I really don't like the fact that you think "perfecting" your own country comes before helping other countries get up too our standards. Let me use this as an example: you own a series of farms across the land. A small portion of these farms are running at high standards and are producing good produce, but they still have flaws. The rest of your farms are of a far worse standard and are producing poorly. Now would you spend what money you have on perfecting the farms that are already good or would you try to bring the others up too standard? It would be the 2nd because otherwise you would just start to dwindle and your farm business would fail. In the same sense if we don't put other countries before us who is too say that with time it will get to an irreversible stage where the people can no longer survive? It's an extreme but even so...

People talk about 3rd world countries so much because they need help. You seem to be worried about the police being a little harsh against people who step out of line, but that’s their job, to stop troublemakers. In previous ones you have talked of ideological societies where everyone pull together, if people act bad then they will end up getting punished. That’s there for a reason. If you decide to say no more punishments, let people make mob riots etc etc, then we slowly fall into anarchy. I would rather have what we have now than anarchy.

Also you say here that you haven't declared America a police state but in your previous post you said "I believe that we are in a police state." I don't mind you changing your opinion but saying that you never said something for the benefit of your own argument is not on.

To finish off you are trying to make us question the system. If you don't think you are I quote "I am to make people ask questions". Ok sure we should be asking questions perhaps but here is what you have done. You have show videos of only bad things that the police have done from poor sources; you have not given any other side to the story and are only portraying the police as bad. Now some people might not have an opinion on the police, but then you start showing them bias evidence that they are bad without them seeing the other side and you begin to unfairly change their opinions. If you want to persuade people make sure you understand both arguments and they understand both arguments, otherwise all your points become lies with time. This is my complaint: you are trying to warp our opinions unfairly by portraying our police as only bad.

[Pielolz]

Oh hey, Journeyman, instead of getting all your info from Anonymous and NPR, goto a respectable website



""The protests of 1989 resulted in the massacre of Chinese protesters in the streets to the west of the square and adjacent areas. There are reports where soldiers opened fire on protesters, killing 400–800, and perhaps many more.[1][2] Eyewitness accounts of the events on the night of June 3 and the early morning of June 4, 1989 continue to emerge from former student leaders and intellectuals, broadening the scope of the original reporting of the massacre by Western media outlets. This was the scene for the iconic image of Tank Man, where a column of PLA tanks was stopped in its tracks by a protester. No one knows if the man in the image is still alive.[6] Further reports show that the theatre of the massacre spanned across Beijing, and was densely concentrated on Chang'an Avenue, literally the "Eternal Peace Street," or the main approach to Tiananmen gate where citizens returned to locate missing protesters driven from the square hours before. Video footage shows the military repeatedly opening fire here on unarmed citizens and medical personnel advancing toward Tiananmen Square to locate the missing and assist the wounded.[7]"

- Wikipedia

[Journeyman H. [UK]]

Panda
I'd like it if you find a quote of me saying that. I'd like to reword it so it does not seem like I am directly going after 1 group. Since it's not my purpose, if it was, I wouldn't even bother posting here. Since I would most likely be forum banned for being a troll.

Also, there is no such thing as perfecting. It's as only good as you can get it. However we can do a far lot more in solving the problems we face today.
Also, we can help other countries, but the system we have disallows that help to happen (The money thread I mentioned, should mention that the use of technology can solve most of our problems such as poverty.).
But we can definitely solve our issues outside our country if we sort out ours, and many countries will follow through. However using war as a means to solve our differences is primitive to say the least, wars are a result from pointing fingers at one another or scarcity.
The fact is, we live in fear, but the thing is, we compare ourselves to the other countries, so we claim our government is "Ok" simply because we compare it to less developed countries, that's why we don't think further into it.
Fear is given to us through many forms, such as claiming countries harbour 'terrorists', or 'ruled by dictators and tyrants', it puts us into fear for other countries.
Now I can't go into details too much, since that does derail the point of the thread; Are we living in fear?

If we live in fear, then prejudice and hatred will manifest.


Renegade
Just a note to you, I don't just look at videos made by Anonymous and the NPR, I usually read and sometimes watch the mainstream media, which I've stated before, so it's not very nice making claims like that.
I don't see why you need to quote from Wikipedia, as I am already aware that these crimes happened, but it is somewhat irrelevant because I am talking about our country we live in. (Europe, definitely had it's bad shares, too! But their policing is usually more professional, but incidents still occur none the less.)

But this still means that our method of controlling people using non lethal weapons is still inhumane and can be considered as torture, seeing as the pain does last a long time.
We should not use weaponry that does cause so much harm. Those "non-lethal" weaponry can still kill you. If it does not, you'd be in hospital with a broken bone in your body, and you'd be under extreme agony.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lbbWAgBy7E" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lbbWAgBy7E</a>

Having your skull fractured by a non-lethal weaponry is immensely painful and can potentially kill you.
Any weapon used to incapacitate people or to "control" the protesters does nothing. It causes immense amount of pain, probably more than what a bullet does. Some cases non-lethal weaponry is useful, but using it in situations such as protests do nothing but increase violence and aggravation.

[Mr Jive]

Hmm, I agree with your first points, but I still don't think we live in a society of fear; perhaps our ideas of fear are slightly different. When you say fear what do you mean? To me fear in society suggests that the average man and worker is scared to go out in the morning, but I really don't think that the majority leave their house in the morning thinking something life endangering cause by the police is going to happen, but that’s just my opinion - I'm sure your idea of fear is different from mine.

[cookiesofamerica]

I think Journeyman, is that you are thinking of a concept of called the common pyscho(sociopath)path.

Let's start with this video for example:
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMG1qjpzNPg" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMG1qjpzNPg</a>

These pyschopaths (from the elite of course) use lies to kill people, just look at stalin and how he is a professional Political Pyschopath and uses lies to get what he wants, and the ultimate pyschopaths that are the rothschild or the rockefellers fund the political pyschopaths, they are more common than they appear.