General => General Discussion => Social Discussion => Topic started by: SoapANator on February 27, 2012, 09:58:15 PM General => General Discussion => Social Discussion => Topic started by: SoapANator on February 27, 2012, 09:58:15 PMRemember, if you make yourself look like you are attacking the way they live (a capitalist culture), you can receive a negative reaction from it.
Normally convincing someone of a better idea is very difficult and it requires some social engineering to convince someone. What you must remember, communism cannot function properly using the money system as well.
Explain your reasons why communism is an ideal approach by the way, that's important to know if you're going on the right track and if you're sure if it works.
The only annoying part about this whole topic is that it seems that liking Communism has turned into stupid trend among the younger generation. Is it "Hip" to like communism? Does the lunch lady fill up my tray with more food for liking communism? Do I get some gangsta (Faggot) friends who like star trek and have lots of acne for liking communism? Can I get some HJ's (Hungry Jacks- Oh you thought Head Jobs... Sick minded cunts.) for liking communism? ....... Can I get some head jobs for liking communism? (dat b soooo coool) Can I get some fried chicken for liking communism? Can I get a sex change for liking communism? Can I my prostate checked for liking communism? Will my daddy stop touching me at night for liking communism? Will my penis grow la- You know what, you get the point.
Right, explain how you think communism would work.
But I can quite agree, communism is not bad, it's just the people who take control of it.
Communism does work theoretically, but the thing is, it attempts to provide jobs for everyone, and tries to make everyone equal, which cannot work using a monetary system.
Whilst communism does provide very good ideas on how to look after it's own population, in practice, it cannot work to be very honest with you.
You can say capitalism is bad, for one thing it demands everyone to be competitive with each other in making money, the person with the most money is considered more important than the individuals who don't earn as much money.
It goes under a guise calling itself "democratic" as people are "free" to do what they want.
The thing is with capitalism, you only get freedom if you have the money and the power, you can effectively control the people and the government.
The free market system works, but only for a period of time before it requires people to make desperate attempts to fix it and keep it going.
The problem is, people are far too educated to see that capitalism is the answer for every issue and communism is evil and destructive (They purposely put pictures like Stalin or other famous dictators to prove the evilness of such an ideology).
YOU NAZI
Now that that's out of the way:
Why not try to ease it into a conversation, so you don't seem like your trying to change them.
THAT WAS A JOKE. I AM GERMAN. DON'T SHIT YOURSELF.
Why do you desperately need to convince communism is the way? What reasons can you come up with that makes communism better than capitalism? (Happens to be the third time I want to know why you believe communism is better)
How about giving your friends the freedom of choice? You can't just say "LOL I LIEK COMOONISM SOW YOO ALL HAF TOO" because that's a way to lose friends. Keep your political views to yourself and focus on other things that make you all friends.
a lot of people associate communism with Stalin, Hitler, China, and other countries/people that use it as an excuse to do horrible things and suppress their people. The reason why Americans hate/dislike Communism is because we've had so many ban encounters with it, a lot of wars against Communism.
How about giving your friends the freedom of choice? You can't just say "LOL I LIEK COMOONISM SOW YOO ALL HAF TOO" because that's a way to lose friends. Keep your political views to yourself and focus on other things that make you all friends.
Nikolai, you could have wrapped it up by saying that communism does not require the monetary system or an elected government to lead the people.
i was told communism = everyone is equalNot really.
everyone can't be equal, there is no order
which is why I believe communism fails
i was told communism = everyone is equalNot really.
everyone can't be equal, there is no order
which is why I believe communism fails
There is to much elitism and corruption in humanity's heart to allow for communism to work so unless you change Humanity you cannot have a fully working Communist Economy.
i was told communism = everyone is equalNot really.
everyone can't be equal, there is no order
which is why I believe communism fails
There is to much elitism and corruption in humanity's heart to allow for communism to work so unless you change Humanity you cannot have a fully working Communist Economy.
Why should a barrister and a convicted criminal be equal?
Why should a student who's studied for 6 years and gotten x amount of qualifications, be equal with a junkie who's been mugging for his wages his whole life
i was told communism = everyone is equalNot really.
everyone can't be equal, there is no order
which is why I believe communism fails
There is to much elitism and corruption in humanity's heart to allow for communism to work so unless you change Humanity you cannot have a fully working Communist Economy.
Why should a barrister and a convicted criminal be equal?
Why should a student who's studied for 6 years and gotten x amount of qualifications, be equal with a junkie who's been mugging for his wages his whole life
i was told communism = everyone is equalNot really.
everyone can't be equal, there is no order
which is why I believe communism fails
There is to much elitism and corruption in humanity's heart to allow for communism to work so unless you change Humanity you cannot have a fully working Communist Economy.
Why should a barrister and a convicted criminal be equal?
Why should a student who's studied for 6 years and gotten x amount of qualifications, be equal with a junkie who's been mugging for his wages his whole life
Why do people like you resort to exaggeration? A far more intelligent question to ask before we should answer your question.
i was told communism = everyone is equalNot really.
everyone can't be equal, there is no order
which is why I believe communism fails
There is to much elitism and corruption in humanity's heart to allow for communism to work so unless you change Humanity you cannot have a fully working Communist Economy.
Why should a barrister and a convicted criminal be equal?
Why should a student who's studied for 6 years and gotten x amount of qualifications, be equal with a junkie who's been mugging for his wages his whole life
Why do people like you resort to exaggeration? A far more intelligent question to ask before we should answer your question.
Whats wrong with exaggeration? By exaggerating I make my point more clearer, making it easier to get feedback, and try to understand others points. Which Juggernaut has done.
Placing 2 extremes does not make your point clearer. It just makes you look like that you are desperate to prove that communism fails.I disagree
What you forgot though, there is equal opportunitiesI agree that if people came together as a whole and helped each other etc it would be better, but I don't agree that it should be forced.
Placing 2 extremes does not make your point clearer. It just makes you look like that you are desperate to prove that communism fails.I disagreeWhat you forgot though, there is equal opportunitiesI agree that if people came together as a whole and helped each other etc it would be better, but I don't agree that it should be forced.
Something like forced peace would never work, but if everyone saw sense and came together it would
I'm not trying to say communism is wrong; i'm trying to say that I think it won't work, because forcing peace on people will naturally cause some to rebel
I agree.i was told communism = everyone is equalNot really.
everyone can't be equal, there is no order
which is why I believe communism fails
There is to much elitism and corruption in humanity's heart to allow for communism to work so unless you change Humanity you cannot have a fully working Communist Economy.
Why should a barrister and a convicted criminal be equal?
Why should a student who's studied for 6 years and gotten x amount of qualifications, be equal with a junkie who's been mugging for his wages his whole life
Why do people like you resort to exaggeration? A far more intelligent question to ask before we should answer your question.
This thread just headed to debateville
This thread just headed to debateville
Yes, but it seems as though it was intentionally made for such purpose.
The argument that communism is unreasonable because it acts upon cooperation and the good will of people wreaks of naïvete.
No of course it's not forced. Who would force it? There is no government. There's definitely a push to work, just as there is in capitalism. Just like in capitalism where if you don't work you don't get paid, in communism if you don't work you don't get the benefits of society. A good way of explaining that is with my previous Native American comparison. In a Native American tribe, if you didn't help with hunting or gathering, you didn't eat. Simple as that. Communism isn't meant to work on a large scale as comparable to a nation. I would honestly say you can still have it pretty large though. And even though nations wouldn't exist, there would still be regional boundaries. As in, these cities are of the Muslim faith, so they are banded together. Therefore, in their established area, a Christian settlement is unlikely. You can have large cities work with communism, it's just that the direct democratic process is difficult, and you would probably end up with having some sort of seniority rule, where the elders speak first and have more allotted time. Getting work done would take a long time.
The argument that communism is unreasonable because it acts upon cooperation and the good will of people wreaks of naïvete.
I thought it was forced? Im not trying to be stuck up but thats what I was taught, forcing people to be peaceful.
For the millionth time I agree that if we could be peaceful 'n shit, then it would work.
But forcing someone to do something normally results in the opposite.
The argument that communism is unreasonable because it acts upon cooperation and the good will of people wreaks of naïvete.
I thought it was forced? Im not trying to be stuck up but thats what I was taught, forcing people to be peaceful.
For the millionth time I agree that if we could be peaceful 'n shit, then it would work.
But forcing someone to do something normally results in the opposite.
No of course it's not forced. Who would force it? There is no government. There's definitely a push to work, just as there is in capitalism. Just like in capitalism where if you don't work you don't get paid, in communism if you don't work you don't get the benefits of society. A good way of explaining that is with my previous Native American comparison. In a Native American tribe, if you didn't help with hunting or gathering, you didn't eat. Simple as that. Communism isn't meant to work on a large scale as comparable to a nation. I would honestly say you can still have it pretty large though. And even though nations wouldn't exist, there would still be regional boundaries. As in, these cities are of the Muslim faith, so they are banded together. Therefore, in their established area, a Christian settlement is unlikely. You can have large cities work with communism, it's just that the direct democratic process is difficult, and you would probably end up with having some sort of seniority rule, where the elders speak first and have more allotted time. Getting work done would take a long time.
The argument that communism is unreasonable because it acts upon cooperation and the good will of people wreaks of naïvete.
I thought it was forced? Im not trying to be stuck up but thats what I was taught, forcing people to be peaceful.
For the millionth time I agree that if we could be peaceful 'n shit, then it would work.
But forcing someone to do something normally results in the opposite.
The argument that communism is unreasonable because it acts upon cooperation and the good will of people wreaks of naïvete.
I thought it was forced? Im not trying to be stuck up but thats what I was taught, forcing people to be peaceful.
For the millionth time I agree that if we could be peaceful 'n shit, then it would work.
But forcing someone to do something normally results in the opposite.
To be honest, capitalism is forced on you, but why don't you complain?
You can't, because the school educates you to take advantage of someone else. Or much rather, do business with other people, as they will put it lightly.
Unless democracy is considered capitalism then no capitalism isn't being forced upon me, even if it was in democracy at least there is some extent to actually vote for a party you think will bring good
Unless democracy is considered capitalism then no capitalism isn't being forced upon me, even if it was in democracy at least there is some extent to actually vote for a party you think will bring good
What "Democracy"?
Did you vote for any wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, or Libya? Because I sure didn't want us to go to war.
Did you get a chance to vote about any new bills? I.e. SOPA.
Did you get to have your say in what should be done to improve your country? I didn't.
I see no more democracy in our system than socialist countries.
What you're forgetting about the idea of capitalism, is that, money is the only form of democracy.
So pretty much, privatising everything, allowing big corporations to (unfairly) compete with small businesses.
Example:
1. You own a family business, and a big supermarket came along and built their store next to you, they cut their prices way below the amount you can sell.
Would you consider that fair?
2. You are poor, you cannot afford medical care. You catch a disease. The hospital demands that you pay them to be healthier.
Would you consider that fair?
Under the rule of Vladimer Lenin;
Everyone's lifespan increased a lot.
There were a lot less people with diseases.
Unemployment was very low, especially compared to America.
It was a crime for corporations to take advantage of poor people (i.e. purposely making them paid minimum wage)
Everyone's standard of living was increased.
This was even after WWI, where a lot of countries went into debt as well.
I think that communism has done a lot more than what capitalism has ever done. The key to capitalism is taking advantage of something and then making a profit from it.
With the current system that we are in, is that, you vote for the leader of the country. That's it. I have never got a chance to vote for anything else, just the candidate.
This then gives you the illusion of democracy. You think that you voted for a leader therefore it makes the country democratic.
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
Communist countries have the poorest population IN THE WORLD. The government suppresses their rights, especially to freedom of speech. And the people have no say whatsoever about what the government does. You are incredibly stupid.
wut? Russian's GNP rose drastically after communism was dismantled, not to mention how much better off the Russian people were. Look a China, their communist, would you like to live in China? Fat chance.
In the first few years when lenin in power it was better in a way, but the people exploited the system and became lazy, lacking of products and the trade. With capitalism you have more economic freedom, you trade your labor for money, even though yes back in the day it was worse, but it was more of corporatism state than capitalist. However with capitalism with some regulations it's easier for money to flow. In soviet Russia which they were to promote communism (which was socialism of course) did not give economic freedom and society was bound to collapse. That's why china was so worried that if they had not give economic freedom the socialist government of China would collapse not so far as the soviet union did. Also journeymen most governments of the west are democratic-republic, where law protects the people while the congress and the federal government does certain things and blah blah... so democracy somewhat exists.LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
Communist countries have the poorest population IN THE WORLD. The government suppresses their rights, especially to freedom of speech. And the people have no say whatsoever about what the government does. You are incredibly stupid.
Under Lenin's rule, Russia had a far better economy than America did. It had mass production and allowed a lot of jobs for the Russian people. Lenin was the only closest thing to communism, however it was still socialist.
Also please note that country being poor is irrelevant compared to purchasing power.
Stalin and Mao took the lands from people, they too were socialists, and they abused their power, especially Stalin. Putin also suppresses the people too.
So in all honesty, they are not really socialists in the first place. The only thing that was socialist was that the people were meant to get free health care, more purchasing power from labour workers, and more jobs, but obviously people call anything communist these days.
In the first few years when lenin in power it was better in a way, but the people exploited the system and became lazy, lacking of products and the trade. With capitalism you have more economic freedom, you trade your labor for money, even though yes back in the day it was worse, but it was more of corporatism state than capitalist. However with capitalism with some regulations it's easier for money to flow. In soviet Russia which they were to promote communism (which was socialism of course) did not give economic freedom and society was bound to collapse. That's why china was so worried that if they had not give economic freedom the socialist government of China would collapse not so far as the soviet union did. Also journeymen most governments of the west are democratic-republic, where law protects the people while the congress and the federal government does certain things and blah blah... so democracy somewhat exists.LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
Communist countries have the poorest population IN THE WORLD. The government suppresses their rights, especially to freedom of speech. And the people have no say whatsoever about what the government does. You are incredibly stupid.
Under Lenin's rule, Russia had a far better economy than America did. It had mass production and allowed a lot of jobs for the Russian people. Lenin was the only closest thing to communism, however it was still socialist.
Also please note that country being poor is irrelevant compared to purchasing power.
Stalin and Mao took the lands from people, they too were socialists, and they abused their power, especially Stalin. Putin also suppresses the people too.
So in all honesty, they are not really socialists in the first place. The only thing that was socialist was that the people were meant to get free health care, more purchasing power from labour workers, and more jobs, but obviously people call anything communist these days.
Under Lenin's rule, Russia had a far better economy than America did. It had mass production and allowed a lot of jobs for the Russian people. Lenin was the only closest thing to communism, however it was still socialist.
Neither China or Russia collapsed, they're still socialists today, they did not attempt to promote communism, for if that they did, the people would take the power away from the leaders.
Socialism / Communism was designed to allow people to have power, rather than rich people being allowed to have power. However, the only problem with this system is that it can easily be exploited through abusive leaders.
QuoteUnder Lenin's rule, Russia had a far better economy than America did. It had mass production and allowed a lot of jobs for the Russian people. Lenin was the only closest thing to communism, however it was still socialist.
bro, russia lost in the cold war because their economy couldn't keep up with the USA and keep on producing military equipment, as well as taking care of the economic needs of their country.QuoteNeither China or Russia collapsed, they're still socialists today, they did not attempt to promote communism, for if that they did, the people would take the power away from the leaders.
Russia is democratic today actually. You call it socialism but there's still aspects of capitalism in every democratic society eg the fact pay-grades all vary while some people can make vast fortunes and others do not; so calling it socialism isn't correct.QuoteSocialism / Communism was designed to allow people to have power, rather than rich people being allowed to have power. However, the only problem with this system is that it can easily be exploited through abusive leaders.
It proved that everyone can have the same standard of living except for the government who becomes corrupt. That doesn't necessarily mean that everyone had good quality things.
One of the debates in the Cold War between USA and Soviet Russia was the fact that the USA would brag about their lavish kitchens and highly advanced washers in comparison to Russia, who used the argument that at least every single person in their state at least owned a washer.
I'm not going to read through an extra four pages of this nonsense because hardly any of you seem to fully understand what you're talking about. Every government spectrum is flawed, you can argue it one way or another, that doesn't mean communism/socialism is evil nor does it mean it's the ideal structure for every government in today's society.
Under Lenin's rule, Russia had a far better economy than America did. It had mass production and allowed a lot of jobs for the Russian people. Lenin was the only closest thing to communism, however it was still socialist.
Also please note that country being poor is irrelevant compared to purchasing power.
That wasn't Lenin's rule......Under Lenin's rule, Russia had a far better economy than America did. It had mass production and allowed a lot of jobs for the Russian people. Lenin was the only closest thing to communism, however it was still socialist.Why in your opinion did the Cold War end?
Also please note that country being poor is irrelevant compared to purchasing power.
Tell them communism is just like america only we can't loose freedom of speech. Communism isn;t something i would want but it isn't evil....
Tell them communism is just like america only we can't loose freedom of speech. Communism isn;t something i would want but it isn't evil....
Communism does not suppress freedom of speech.
Freedom of speech gives people the illusion that there is democracy, even though censorship is becoming more common in America, just an FYI.
I, too, think Communism would be better for the world. Not the current impression of tyrannous rulers, but instead, more of how Marx envisioned it: a utopia, where there isn't a need for money. Don't try and force your ideas on them, just explain and maybe you'll win the argument. Just don't fuck yourself over while doing it.
True, should have thought about that before replying.I, too, think Communism would be better for the world. Not the current impression of tyrannous rulers, but instead, more of how Marx envisioned it: a utopia, where there isn't a need for money. Don't try and force your ideas on them, just explain and maybe you'll win the argument. Just don't fuck yourself over while doing it.
I doubt Marx would envision a Utopia, if so, that'd be a major flaw in his writing, simply because there is never a "Utopia" because there is no perfect society.