Titan of the Dinosaurs, Elions's PK Appeal for Matthew 'Oldman' Henderson, Eli 'Stalker'

[Elions]

How could we have known that Kronos would turn around like this all of a sudden? How could we have known that in a case like this the admins involved would act neglectfully? How could we have known that we were going to be the target of an abuse of the rules?

This is simply ridiculous, and metagame alone certainely isn't a valid reason to PK someone when it wasn't even their direct fault, but someone else's who literally just decided to pool the wool over their eyes.

Any admin with half a brain would realise the problem in this situation. Anyone with a conscience wouldn't let it happen just like that.

Edit:

Not to mention the erasing of the logs on steam mobile (Which is something completely user controled) Is bullshity as is

[Statua]

Ok can whoever issued both PK's CLEARLY state the reason why it was done and a tk wasn't issued?

[[LP]GMK-MRL]

Its not really assuming or that big of a leap. There hasn't really been a case like then and you could have just said "No" say "I'll think about it" is so vague that there are so many ways to perceive it. The fact that you didn't directly say "No" and said "I'll think about it" and then follow it up with this seeing how you were planning this apparently for a month and then following it up with that? You can't say that you didn't know that I would have assumed that.

And you can't say that I did know. The fact that it's so vauge proves that I did not intend to meet you on the terms given nor did I directly agree to it.

I did not metagame. And I know I did not metagame.

I really hate conflict OOCly, so that's all I wish to say. I'll just leave it up to admins. This is getting too much for me to handle, due to the same accusations being repeated, but only being worded differently.

How could we have known that Kronos would turn around like this all of a sudden?

Are you supposed to know what I plan to do ICly?

How could we have known that we were going to be the target of an abuse of the rules?

You're not a victim man. Please stop acting like one.

Any admin with half a brain would realise the problem in this situation. Anyone with a conscience wouldn't let it happen just like that.

There is no problem, it's all just either A.) One big misinterpitation or B.) People who are highly distastifed by being beat on their best and most developed characters.

This is getting stupid and I just really want you to accept that Old Man is pk'd. I've lost characters that I held close to and I also thought they were for bullshit reasons. But in time you will realize how silly it was to get upset about it.

Spoiler for Hiden:

Also, Stat. I would expect you to know since you suprivse the OL, but they were Pk'd due to the fact that we can't just forget all that occured on that RP session. It created soo much discontent and caused players to gain so much, that it couldn't all just be ignored and have the character killed spontainously come back to life. I mean honestly, the only person who would save him is now dead. So he would be lying there in an area we are notorious for occupying. It was a .357 to the head. TK's are mainly used for long travels or serious injuries.

(You didn't issue the PK, I didn't ask you.): I was told by the ones who did issue the pk as I argued with them to keep a TK to avoid all of this non-sense.

And to conclude this, I will be gone until Friday for a field study.

[Statua]

I dont exactly agree with you guys taking those items considering their value but thats for another discussion. You're right, a TK wouldnt make much sense considering the items stolen. But neither does stealing said items. SO you created a bit of a controversy here.

Lifting my decision on denied to neutral.

[[LP]GMK-MRL]

I dont exactly agree with you guys taking those items considering their value but thats for another discussion. You're right, a TK wouldnt make much sense considering the items stolen. But neither does stealing said items. SO you created a bit of a controversy here.

Lifting my decision on denied to neutral.

I don't understand how stealing items is contraverisal, as one of the main reasons he was killed was for supplies. And may I clarify that it was not the only reason, but one of the reasons he was killed. It doesn't take a long time to notice what Matt has, and it can take an IC assumption to know what he has on him. I mean a guy with Kevlar? And you'd expect him to only have a knife? Back in my backstory for Laurence, he knows that people with kevlar usually mean people with weapons, and he needed more weapons.

[Statua]

I thought you killed him because he was gonna bring OTA or something like that. You killed him for the reason "to steal his items"?

[[LP]GMK-MRL]

I thought you killed him because he was gonna bring OTA or something like that. You killed him for the reason "to steal his items"?

You didn't fully read my post nor understood the situation at hand. The IC lie was that we were going to discuss on how to prevent an incoming OTA or escape it. We killed him because he:

1.) Had resources the group needed.
2.)Had too much of an ifluencial grip on the Inn that Laurence visited.
3.)Threatened our vortigaunt
4.)Proved to be hostile towards those who harm others.

All of this was observed ICly.

[tics]

I thought you killed him because he was gonna bring OTA or something like that. You killed him for the reason "to steal his items"?

And hypothetically, if the situation was well roleplayed, then the motive doesn't matter. A well-roleplayed, voluntary roleplay situation can warrant a PK if death occurs during it. And it is voluntary because, for whatever OOC reasons whether he was lied to or not, Juggernaut decided to go into that situation. Voluntarily. Once you enter a roleplay situation like that voluntarily, the results of the situation are the consequences of your voluntary involvement.

[Elions]

I did not metagame. And I know I did not metagame.

You set up the whole thing ooc and worked most of it OOCLY with people, i'd call that metagaming from the very beginning on your end.

I really hate conflict OOCly, so that's all I wish to say. I'll just leave it up to admins. This is getting too much for me to handle, due to the same accusations being repeated, but only being worded differently.

When you do something wrong and you avoid it, people /have/ to bring it back over and over so you realise you did something wrong. I'm sorry if it annoys you but those accusations are all valid.

Are you supposed to know what I plan to do ICly?

When you basically talk to someone in a way that you're "scripting" a possible RP session, i'd expect to have some semblance of what's going to happen. I'd also expect that you don't do the entire opposite for something that was both unneeded and malicious in it's intent. And no i won't stop using that word, because that's what this is to begin with.

You're not a victim man. Please stop acting like one.

You lied, you misdirected us, you shot us down for no apparent reason other than "supplies" which is not something that's a problem in outlands and misdirected us purposely so we'd break character and have a shot at us. Call me whatever you like, but it'll have to be synonymous to victim.

This is getting stupid and I just really want you to accept that Old Man is pk'd. I've lost characters that I held close to and I also thought they were for bullshit reasons. But in time you will realize how silly it was to get upset about it.

This isn't simply about the PK, it's about you getting away with abusing the rules and misdirecting honest players to get what you want. From day one of this incident you've changed your story more times than some people change shirts, you've used more circular logic than bloody nuns in catholic school and you've gone out of your way to cloud the facts. The metagame many talk about started with you, and ended with you.

but they were Pk'd due to the fact that we can't just forget all that occured on that RP session

Really? There's been several instances for many other characters where PK's were not issued. The third eye event for example. The raid to the Bunker in the pass. The bloody changes of maps. There's been several instances where "you can't just forget" kills happened, and yet nothing was done about it. If you want to talk about this kind of situation we'd have to PK almost the entirety of the outlands, including some of your characters who are currently alive.

I don't understand how stealing items is contraverisal, as one of the main reasons he was killed was for supplies. And may I clarify that it was not the only reason, but one of the reasons he was killed. It doesn't take a long time to notice what Matt has, and it can take an IC assumption to know what he has on him. I mean a guy with Kevlar? And you'd expect him to only have a knife? Back in my backstory for Laurence, he knows that people with kevlar usually mean people with weapons, and he needed more weapons.

The problem is, weren't it for the metagame that you yourself started with this arranged meeting and subsequent attempts to 'butter him up', this meeting would have never happened. ICLY they would never have had a single reason to trust you, and it was solely the fact that you went out of your way OOCLY to fool him into this situation that the whole event happened. And all for some bloody items that are /not/ impossible or rare to find in outlands, let alone the fact that you already HAD items to begin with so you didn't actually require these supplies to begin with, making the assumption that you did this to get more items devolve to one simple term.

Greed

You yourself have stated multiple times that you cannot trust the people in the very group, so why would you go out of your way to give them more shit? you already don't trust them, you do not need them having more firepower to kill you. The influence he had was well isolated to one small part of the map, leaving gigantic parts of the map for you to explore, gain influence over, even seize.
Your vortigaunt is literally eating humans... Why the hell do you trust him?

And finally, the hostility could easily come from anyone. I'd dare say even you have more to worry about hostility wise from the other characters in your little group, which you've said over and over on TS and other means that you do not trust and will eventually part away from in an event you people already have planned.

This whole argument from you reeks of horse-shit.

[[LP]GMK-MRL]

You provide only repeated (and now anger filled) accusations. Out of that entire rant.

You really are just screaming metagame with no valid or physical proof.

You're bascially saying i'm wrong, you're right without any proof.

It was not scripted, as I've explained before if you would look back.

You lied, you misdirected us, you shot us down for no apparent reason other than "supplies" which is not something that's a problem in outlands and misdirected us purposely so we'd break character and have a shot at us. Call me whatever you like, but it'll have to be synonymous to victim.

And if you would read up, I gave four reasons on why I shot Matt. You were collateral and you were only shot due to your presence. Thats your own fault.

This isn't simply about the PK, it's about you getting away with abusing the rules and misdirecting honest players to get what you want. From day one of this incident you've changed your story more times than some people change shirts, you've used more circular logic than bloody nuns in catholic school and you've gone out of your way to cloud the facts. The metagame many talk about started with you, and ended with you.

I'd really like to know how leading "honest players" to their death's ICly is an OOC crime. My story hasn't changed and I do believe you're becoming flustered over the entire event. Calm down.

And when you mean by many, you mainly mean You and Old Man.

Greed

If you can't get over the fact that my character, (Who I remind you is a past Crip) is going to be greedy, then you must be stuck in denial on how your character has died. They are not supermen.

You yourself have stated multiple times that you cannot trust the people in the very group, so why would you go out of your way to give them more shit? you already don't trust them, you do not need them having more firepower to kill you. The influence he had was well isolated to one small part of the map, leaving gigantic parts of the map for you to explore, gain influence over, even seize.
Your vortigaunt is literally eating humans... Why the hell do you trust him?

You're right, he doesn't trust them. But that's all he's got. And over time, they will prove to him that he can trust them. So far they've actually grown pretty close due to saving each others life numerous times. My IC story is My IC story. Not yours. I will make it the way I want to as long as it abides by the rules of the community. You have no control over it and I will not let it influence the way Old Man was killed.

I've provided numerous accounts of my innocence and you're too clouded by your anger to even think about it.

And finally, the hostility could easily come from anyone. I'd dare say even you have more to worry about hostility wise from the other characters in your little group, which you've said over and over on TS and other means that you do not trust and will eventually part away from in an event you people already have planned.

From Laurence's past, he knows those who only strive to protect the innocent will not mix well with him. He knows that those who are practically identical to him, will most likely work with him in a greater aspect. As long as he can provide them with something they all desire, nothing bad will happen. As said before, this is My IC story. You can judge it however you want, but nothing will change until an admin (that I know is not biased) says otherwise.

[Statua]

1.) Had resources the group needed.
Your group already has firepower and pretty much is auth'd a vehicle. What more did you need?
2.)Had too much of an ifluencial grip on the Inn that Laurence visited.
The inn is an official unownable passive RP refugee sanctuary. Leave it alone.
3.)Threatened our vortigaunt
Your vortigaunt is corrupt and doesnt follow its race. Does oit even have auths to be that way?
4.)Proved to be hostile towards those who harm others.
So? Did he directly attack you? I don't think that was mentioned.


Give me some reasons I cant counter.

[Elions]

It's hard not to be filled with anger when in the TS and even in this thread i'm not allowed to properly defend my character or my actions, and i'm sorry if my tone is not pleasant but you certainely did not create a pleasant situation by any means (not that you had to, but you certainely seemed to aim for a bad one)

I'm not claiming this without any proof, text has been provided, logs have been shown, i've even checked your story but sometimes people had chats, sometimes they don't according to you and the people involved in it. And you claim to not have tried to script it when you clearly lead him to believe something completely different was to ocurr outside of the realm of the roleplay itself.

Your four reasons defeat themselves, since as i've said they make little to no sense, even if we simply consider that they have to make sense only to the character icly it seems more like a convenient way to overpower your character over everyone else's with the newly acquired items (which i reiterate, you certainely did not need)

Leading someone to their death solely in character would not be wrong, but you used means away from that realm to do so and with dubious intentions to boot. It's hardly something anyone can look over.

By "many claim of metagame" i mean the people in this thread, smt specifically who has focused on the metagame aspect of the matter which you could in theory pin on us but that really started with you, and i reiterate, ended with you.

This "trust" that you speak of with the other characters sounds flimsy at best, and at it's more than undeveloped state at this moment clearly shows that unless there was some sort of ooc agreement there would never have had been an event like this to begin with.
Your IC story is yours, but i'd expect you to roleplay it accordingly, i'd figure given the gang affiliation he would not have even blinked at any of these characters before either trying to kill them or running away from them frankly, as none of them were really the kind of people you'd ever trust in any form, let alone a bloody alien which he has never even heard of or seen.

I am angry, but what you fail to notice is that i have a right to be angry at this moment. And while i apologize for my excessive use of curse words if there was any, the actual claims stand. Unfortunately i cannot go and invent something new to accuse you of to appease your need for originality in my claims but this is really the one (and rather big) thing you are guilty of.

Your accounts of innocence fail to satisfy the very minimum requirements of proof, while we provide screenshots or even check back on what the people involved in the event said to begin with.

[The Doctor, RIP Juggernaut]

I've already stated that I was under an OOC misconception that lead me to follow you either intentional or unintentional.
You're using circular logic to try to get us to contradict our selves. And I would still /LOVE TO KNOW WHY WE WERE PKED TO START WITH/ from the people who did it.

I don't remember /EVER/ making a indirect to direct threat to your Vortigaunt.

[Sexy Frog]

3.)Threatened our vortigaunt
Your vortigaunt is corrupt and doesnt follow its race. Does oit even have auths to be that way?

I was not aware that a character needed an authorization to have a different personality other than the normal run of the mill protect and cooperate with humanity Vortigaunt. Please, point out this rule or requirement. I am genuinely interested as to where this is, as I have never seen it before. 

[Lone Wanderer <??"?]

3.)Threatened our vortigaunt
Your vortigaunt is corrupt and doesnt follow its race. Does oit even have auths to be that way?

I was not aware that a character needed an authorization to have a different personality other than the normal run of the mill protect and cooperate with humanity Vortigaunt. Please, point out this rule or requirement. I am genuinely interested as to where this is, as I have never seen it before. 

Yeah, I never saw this as a rule at all, and it wouldn't make sense to have it in place regardless. Afterall, the first experience the vortigaunts had on Earth was an extremely violent reaction from humans. At this point in canon, I doubt the vorts and humans have made up to eachother yet. And saying that all vortigaunts HAVE to be all peaceful and for humans is limiting roleplay, and doesn't allow for development at all.