Catalyst Gaming
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Major Mario on March 12, 2012, 10:10:31 AM
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Just recently I heard from a relative that my older brother, a man fresh out of college with a good job, was breaking up with his fiance. The news was out of the blue and struck me hard, as I was looking forward to attending his wedding. When I asked about the circumstances that lead to this break-up, I was told there were a few minor reasons like not spending enough time together. However, the major reason was that my brother's girlfriend had found religion or something. When he would get home from work, she just wanted to do bible devotions and talk about their spiritual life in God, and wanted him to become the spiritual leader of their family. She cut him off from sex, and wanted to start their relationship over from square one, all based on God. He didn't like being pressured to change to fit her needs. I guess she couldn't accept him as he was. Not that he couldn't have tried to change a bit, a little disipline is good for a person, and a little more ambition couldn't hurt. But the religion thing is what really was getting to him.
I understand there many be people in this community who have their views on religion, (I for one don't believe) but I just can't fathom completely changing a relationship based on religion. It's a terrible, terrible thing to do that to someone you love because of the new views you hold.
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What's the point of this thread?
I'm not trying to be negative, I agree with you. Some atheists are going to far.
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What's the point of this thread?
I'm not trying to be negative, I agree with you. Some atheists are going to far.
He went too far? What? She decided to find god and wanted HIM to change to fit her beliefs. My gf is a Christian and I am an atheist but she dosen't want to change me. If she couldn't accept him the way he was then he had every right to break up with her.
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Annnnd, that's the reason if I got a GF who is religious, I will not deal with it and I am an Athiest.
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What's the point of this thread?
I'm not trying to be negative, I agree with you. Some atheists are going to far.
What's wrong with you? Have you even read the OP? What did HE do wrong?
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What's the point of this thread?
I'm not trying to be negative, I agree with you. Some atheists are going to far.
See religion in thread, don't read OP, as it's automatically the atheist's fault.
Bravo.
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I'm not trying to be negative, I agree with you. Some atheists are going to far.
I don't think my brother is an atheist, and if he was, he never told anyone. We used to go to church every Sunday, then we just became Christmas Christians, doing it because everyone else did. I'm just saying that the idea of cutting off a relationship because of religion is... well, for lack of a better word, stupid.
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Yea, wtf did the guy do wrong. I'm a arian christian/ deist (It does not mean aryanism or white power rather it means that you think Jesus is just a prophet and also my religion is rather odd as it only takes the bible into a symbolic context rather a literal context or just as myth stories to listen to). Simply it just wouldn't work out this relationship. Imagine what would happen when they had children, it would be a fight to the death to whether they should be brought up christian or atheist. I have respect for all beliefs including atheism.
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I have respect for all beliefs including atheism.
You mean lack of. ;D
I have read upon similar situations before, it really is sad. Love is blind, it shouldn't matter what religion someone is or isn't you generally don't care if you really love some one. She should have accepted him for who he was and recognize that pressuring him into such a thing is wrong. If she really loved him she should have realised this.
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Having faith and being in a religion is fine.
But taking it to the point where religion rules your life and everyone around you, is detrimental.
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I have respect for all beliefs including atheism.
You mean lack of. ;D
I have read upon similar situations before, it really is sad. Love is blind, it shouldn't matter what religion someone is or isn't you generally don't care if you really love some one. She should have accepted him for who he was and recognize that pressuring him into such a thing is wrong. If she really loved him she should have realised this.
What are you talking about. I live in NYC, one of the most diverse places in the world. I have atheist friends also.
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I have respect for all beliefs including atheism.
You mean lack of. ;D
I have read upon similar situations before, it really is sad. Love is blind, it shouldn't matter what religion someone is or isn't you generally don't care if you really love some one. She should have accepted him for who he was and recognize that pressuring him into such a thing is wrong. If she really loved him she should have realised this.
What are you talking about. I live in NYC, one of the most diverse places in the world. I have atheist friends also.
Well we've heard this before in, "I'm not racist, I have 1 black friend". Just because you have friends related to the above subject, this does not excuse you from any prejudice against people's beliefs.
TL;DR Just because you have atheist friends does not mean you are never offensive to them.
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CCD MODE ACTIVATED!
(Learned this at CCD a long time ago)
(BTW: CCD is a learning program for grades 1-8 who want to learn about there religion, so they can actually understand what goes on at church)
Actually, in Gods ways, she did something that was wroung. When you get married, it means that BOTH people in a marriage must always do things to make there spouse happy. If you don't, that is counted that you don't love them.
Overall, you don't love someone in God's eyes unless you would do ANYTHING for them.
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I'm going to reply to this at the risk of sounding outdated because I've only read the first post, please ignore any points that I bring up if they were already discussed.
Religion is a touchy subject in relationships, obviously. I would like to start saying that it's probably a good thing they broke up. Two people who differ so much, especially on religious views, very rarely last together. One of the people would always be unhappy.
I also want to say that, from what you described, she seems a bit, overzealous? I'm willing to bet that no one in this thread spends hours a day reading bible quotes. Religion, in the case of one person, can improve their quality of life, and some people need that, however, it is not her right nor should it ever be acceptable that she should tell him what he should believe. This is one of the things that piss me off more than anything in the entire world.
I live in the middle of the bible belt and I see this nearly every day. In this day and age of public education, you would think that people would realize "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion," and that you, as a christian, are not a better American.
But I went a little bit off topic, the point is, this is a good thing. You don't want two people to be kept together if they aren't happy.
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Someone77, you're right about that. It's better that the two people are happy alone than stressed and unhappy together. While I'm not a religious man myself, I respect those who do have one. They have faith in something, something to hope for. Yes, religion does tend to, on average, make a person happier.
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I have respect for all beliefs including atheism.
You mean lack of. ;D
I have read upon similar situations before, it really is sad. Love is blind, it shouldn't matter what religion someone is or isn't you generally don't care if you really love some one. She should have accepted him for who he was and recognize that pressuring him into such a thing is wrong. If she really loved him she should have realised this.
What are you talking about. I live in NYC, one of the most diverse places in the world. I have atheist friends also.
Well we've heard this before in, "I'm not racist, I have 1 black friend". Just because you have friends related to the above subject, this does not excuse you from any prejudice against people's beliefs.
TL;DR Just because you have atheist friends does not mean you are never offensive to them.
So your attacking me? I respect all beliefs sir. I have never said anything against any atheist. I don't understand why I am being attacked when I have grown up in an area where all people's beliefs are accepted by the society. I have am never offensive to them and I don't only have one. I do not understand why I am being ganged up on and I take this to offense. You have no reason to attack me as you don't know anything about my life. Now I'm going to be labeled a religious zealous idiot. Ahh, America.
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I'm an atheist , now if your highly into religion then you may not want to continue reading, just a warning, don't want butthurt.
Where shall I begin, well, my mom and a lot of my family believe in a god, as I do not mind people who do, as long as they don't try to change people and shove it down my throat when I don't want to believe in it. My brothers and I say that church is just a "place of lies." However, this is our prospective on it, and we will not bring it up unless you bring up religious values with us. I personally, think of church as a cult, as they basically try to control a group of people and etc... Now remember, this is my personal opinion. If I ever get another girlfriend, and she tries to push her religious values and what not on me, even after I have told her no, then I will most likely dump her, as I don't want people to try to force me to believe in sometime I don't want or have the care in the world to believe in.
My 2 cents.
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I'm an atheist , now if your highly into religion then you may not want to continue reading, just a warning, don't want butthurt.
Where shall I begin, well, my mom and a lot of my family believe in a god, as I do not mind people who do, as long as they don't try to change people and shove it down my throat when I don't want to believe in it. My brothers and I say that church is just a "place of lies." However, this is our prospective on it, and we will not bring it up unless you bring up religious values with us. I personally, think of church as a cult, as they basically try to control a group of people and etc... Now remember, this is my personal opinion. If I ever get another girlfriend, and she tries to push her religious values and what not on me, even after I have told her no, then I will most likely dump her, as I don't want people to try to force me to believe in sometime I don't want or have the care in the world to believe in.
My 2 cents.
I kinda agree with you. I am a Christian myself, and it really ticks me off when people try to shove it down others throat. I will have a discussion with other people about it, but I will not force it onto them. Some Atheists that I have spoken to are ignorant (I said some, and I am not saying all are like that, just in my experience with talking to them).
On Topic: If she was trying to force Christianity onto him, and he didn't want to be a Christian, then I think it was a good idea to break up due to the fact that she was forcing it onto him. The marriage would have been horrible with her always bickering about Christianity and not accept the fact that he is atheist.
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I have respect for all beliefs including atheism.
You mean lack of. ;D
I have read upon similar situations before, it really is sad. Love is blind, it shouldn't matter what religion someone is or isn't you generally don't care if you really love some one. She should have accepted him for who he was and recognize that pressuring him into such a thing is wrong. If she really loved him she should have realised this.
What are you talking about. I live in NYC, one of the most diverse places in the world. I have atheist friends also.
Gah, I don't mean lack of respect, I mean lack of belief. Bah nevermind.
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I'm going to make a weird comparison here, but it makes sense in a way.
Religious people are a bit like homosexual people. I can respect them in every way, but once they start forcing you to "respect them for who they are" while I already do and overact on their belief or sexuality, then they lose my respect. I think that this is also a big issue that leads to hatred against religious and gay people. Their's nothing wrong with believing in Alah, but when you kill people who don't, you're taking that step too far obviously.
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What's the point of this thread?
I'm not trying to be negative, I agree with you. Some atheists are going to far.
Lol, wut.
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I for one don't believe, but honestly I think it isn't his girlfriend's fault or his fault for the breakup. Religion is a horrible thing (in my completely subjective opinion) that twists people's minds into believing something that could do exactly what happened here - Break up what could have been love. In my opinion religion such as Christianity was made kind of like a "Santa Claus" story. "Be good, or bad things will happen" generally keeps people in line, and whether God exists or not, the simple believe of God changes the way a person lives their life, usually in the better (except in this case).
It can however, have some seriously negative side effects when you take it too far, eg. martyrdom. Religion was never created for people to give their lives over it, and when you start to suggest something like that you've taken it too far. I honestly wish I could believe, and in fact I used to, and I will admit my life was a lot better (by that I mean I wasn't into drugs and crime) than I am now, but attending a Christian school when I was younger honestly made me grow up and realize there is no God.
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Christmas/Saint nick...
Is pegan...
Either I see religion as away to make humans better in a time filled with wars..
Think about, the seven commandments are found in all the laws around the world they have become so inbeded in to this world that its become so common people don't notice them.
What if religion was made by a man as a way to improve humanity but taken to far by humans(Which we tend to do) to the point where we get wars.
In my mind Religion is more of a guide line to how you /Should/ live your life but the world has changed so religions part if our lifes must change.
America wouldn't shaped the way it is with out religion, the world would be changed in good ways and bad ways with out it.
Religion also brings comfort when you most need it(Heaven for when you lose a love one/are about to die, and hell for when you've lost some one to murder/has been stolen from)
I study religion but I do not follow it because of the morals that's it has put in to our world.
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"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." -Steven Weinberg
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America wouldn't be shaped the way it is without religion. The world would be changed in good ways and bad ways with out it.
I study religion but I do not follow it because of the morals that's it has put in to our world.
All of our morals are based off of Religion. Entire countries have had their laws based off of them, to do no harm to another man. It may seem troublesome, but Religion is necessary, and without it where would we be?
Anyway, my brother has broken up with her and has decided to move back to his college town for work. It's smaller there, and he's known by the community so he'll be able to get a job again.
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Morals are NOT based out of religion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TnA3b8MhD0
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So if morals are based off of religion, are you one of the bigots who think that, because I don't believe in your god (I emphasize your because many different religions have very different moral values) that I have no morals?
Also, in most religions with a holy book or sacred text, the 'moral values' found within are more horrific and sickening than what I believe to be right. Lets take a look at a few, shall we?
You say: "Torture is wrong."
God says: "Violence cleanses evil." (Proverbs 20:30)
You say: "Owning people and slavery is wrong."
God says: "Enslave your neighbors who worship other gods." (Levictus 25:44-46)
You say: "The punishment should fit the crime."
God says: "Temporal crimes deserve eternal torture and punishment in hell." (Matthew 13:41-42)
You say: "Rape is not the fault of the victim."
God says: "Rape is a crime against the husband. Women who do not shout loud enough to be heard while being raped should be killed." (Deuteronomy 22:23-34)
I could go on.
And since I know a few of you will say "But that's the old testament!"
Matthew 5:17-19 Jesus says it still applies.
Morality is an evolutionary construct. Our kindness toward others rewards us in turn and makes us feel more confident. It's a byproduct of us wanting to be more confident.
I could go on about this, but there's an entire chapter in Richard Dawkins' "The God Delusion" which I recommend all of you read. I have a PDF version available here: RichardDawkinsGodDelusion.pdf (http://somone77.net/download.php?f=/files/RichardDawkinsGodDelusion.pdf) but I recommend you buy it.
Imagine a world without religion (http://bgeiger.net/photos/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=197&g2_serialNumber=2)
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I like this guy.
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Here's a plan! (THIS IS GONNA BLOW YOUR MIND /sarcasm) How about we keep forcing atheism out of this site, forcing religion out of this site, see that this guy's girlfriend was wrong to force religion into his relationship instead of loving him, and live happily ever after in a world where we are judged by actions not beliefs? HMMMMMMMMMMMM?!
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So if morals are based off of religion, are you one of the bigots who think that, because I don't believe in your god (I emphasize your because many different religions have very different moral values) that I have no morals?
Also, in most religions with a holy book or sacred text, the 'moral values' found within are more horrific and sickening than what I believe to be right. Lets take a look at a few, shall we?
You say: "Torture is wrong."
God says: "Violence cleanses evil." (Proverbs 20:30)
You say: "Owning people and slavery is wrong."
God says: "Enslave your neighbors who worship other gods." (Levictus 25:44-46)
You say: "The punishment should fit the crime."
God says: "Temporal crimes deserve eternal torture and punishment in hell." (Matthew 13:41-42)
You say: "Rape is not the fault of the victim."
God says: "Rape is a crime against the husband. Women who do not shout loud enough to be heard while being raped should be killed." (Deuteronomy 22:23-34)
I could go on.
And since I know a few of you will say "But that's the old testament!"
Matthew 5:17-19 Jesus says it still applies.
Morality is an evolutionary construct. Our kindness toward others rewards us in turn and makes us feel more confident. It's a byproduct of us wanting to be more confident.
I could go on about this, but there's an entire chapter in Richard Dawkins' "The God Delusion" which I recommend all of you read. I have a PDF version available here: RichardDawkinsGodDelusion.pdf (http://somone77.net/download.php?f=/files/RichardDawkinsGodDelusion.pdf) but I recommend you buy it.
Imagine a world without religion (http://bgeiger.net/photos/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=197&g2_serialNumber=2)
I'm Antagonistic...
either way this is off topic.
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So if morals are based off of religion, are you one of the bigots who think that, because I don't believe in your god (I emphasize your because many different religions have very different moral values) that I have no morals?
Also, in most religions with a holy book or sacred text, the 'moral values' found within are more horrific and sickening than what I believe to be right. Lets take a look at a few, shall we?
You say: "Torture is wrong."
God says: "Violence cleanses evil." (Proverbs 20:30)
You say: "Owning people and slavery is wrong."
God says: "Enslave your neighbors who worship other gods." (Levictus 25:44-46)
You say: "The punishment should fit the crime."
God says: "Temporal crimes deserve eternal torture and punishment in hell." (Matthew 13:41-42)
You say: "Rape is not the fault of the victim."
God says: "Rape is a crime against the husband. Women who do not shout loud enough to be heard while being raped should be killed." (Deuteronomy 22:23-34)
I could go on.
And since I know a few of you will say "But that's the old testament!"
Matthew 5:17-19 Jesus says it still applies.
Morality is an evolutionary construct. Our kindness toward others rewards us in turn and makes us feel more confident. It's a byproduct of us wanting to be more confident.
I could go on about this, but there's an entire chapter in Richard Dawkins' "The God Delusion" which I recommend all of you read. I have a PDF version available here: RichardDawkinsGodDelusion.pdf (http://somone77.net/download.php?f=/files/RichardDawkinsGodDelusion.pdf) but I recommend you buy it.
Imagine a world without religion (http://bgeiger.net/photos/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=197&g2_serialNumber=2)
I'm Antagonistic...
either way this is off topic.
How is it off topic? Someone raised the idea that without religion we cannot have morals- this is his rebuttal.
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What's the point of this thread?
I'm not trying to be negative, I agree with you. Some atheists are going to far.
He went too far? What? She decided to find god and wanted HIM to change to fit her beliefs. My gf is a Christian and I am an atheist but she dosen't want to change me. If she couldn't accept him the way he was then he had every right to break up with her.
>Implying you have a girlfriend
>What are you trying to do replace me?
ANYWAYS ON TO A MORE SERIOUS NOTE!
Religion should NEVER separate a couple, Ever. It's like separating due to someone liking another kind of cheese you don't like, which is very bad example but IDGAF. I'm just here to say that.
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Why does a general statement have to be made about whether or not it works? I could never date someone who was religious personally but I know plenty of atheists who have had or currently have religious girlfriends.
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ANYWAYS ON TO A MORE SERIOUS NOTE!
Religion should NEVER separate a couple, Ever. It's like separating due to someone liking another kind of cheese you don't like, which is very bad example but IDGAF. I'm just here to say that.
The religion itself should never come between them, however, actions based upon that religion are that individuals own choice. I couldn't care less about what religion anyone associates with, it's how they present themselves as a person. Basically, I look at this question:
"If your god told you to kill me, would you?"
If the answer is "yes", it won't work out. Why? Because I can't trust a person who could one day think they heard a voice in their head to kill someone or harm themself, that type of person needs mental help, badly.
Of course, it's never a clear line. What I think you should do is look at the person, who they are, what their morals are. Not at what they call themselves.
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Meh, I am a Wiccan, but my basic morals are still the same as most people. I don't believe in other people's god(s), but I respect that others have their own beliefs. I wish most people were like this, maybe there would be a lot less violence in the world.
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Best bet is to follow this:
(http://i.imgur.com/jEEM4.png)
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Best bet is to follow this:
(http://i.imgur.com/jEEM4.png)
Might wanna check out something called Humanism. It's basically these principles, but it needs to really pick up support from people.
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TL;DR all of that bs
I'm Catholic and I would never force my religious beliefs upon my girl-friend, whom is Jewish. Those whom do force their beliefs upon other people ARE going to hell.
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How many more threads have to be made before we can realize that making a thread about religion is a terrible idea.
There are no exceptions.
People are always going to have different opinions and If we don't follow their opinions and religious beliefs then somebody is going to end up starting a flame war.
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TL;DR all of that bs
I'm Catholic and I would never force my religious beliefs upon my girl-friend, whom is Jewish. Those whom do force their beliefs upon other people ARE going to hell.
The fact you have a girlfriend appalls me Good for you?
This is why religion is bad.
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TL;DR all of that bs
I'm Catholic and I would never force my religious beliefs upon my girl-friend, whom is Jewish. Those whom do force their beliefs upon other people ARE going to hell.
The fact you have a girlfriend appalls me Good for you?
This is why religion is bad.
Religion gives hope. Many people are just to ignorant to have a religion, if it may be Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Jewish, Christian, or any other religion.
I myself, is a Christian, but I don't understand why people wouldn't want hope in their life. If it is Jesus Christ, Allah, Buddha, or any other god.
Then people think religion is stupid ect. What proof do you have that there isn't a god? It can be any god, but what proof is there that there isn't one? It makes you think...
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What proof that there is one? Please do not make me argue with you over religion or I will pee out of my asshole and shit out of my dick.
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What proof that there is one? Please do not make me argue with you over religion or I will pee out of my asshole and shit out of my dick.
(https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSg8zz2c09zVrwPWjMTls3dq6JXSHSRTyEgBwMIP3TlcJ0jOEaMQQ)
24 hour forum ban issued. You had the chance to read the rules when you were warned by Wakeboarder in your post: http://www.catalyst-gaming.net/index.php?topic=12579.msg93742#msg93742
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Le'sigh, if I am about to type out a paragraph worths of my opinion only for you to only be trolling, I will find you, and I will poop in your ear.
Religion, Religion is a form of control for society, created in the dark ages as a way for people to believe there is hope. A false sense of hope for people who believed that if they where to repent and believe that their troubles would go away. This, turned out to somewhat be true, as people began to educate themselves but in the wrong ways, they began to learn about the false gods. Of course, before the dark ages there was indeed the Greek/Roman Gods but those where for nature and other things which is fine, because it is not saying that some unnamed god created the world because he deemed it fit to do so and sends his son to die on a cross. Then there is of course just the fact its complete rubbish. Hold your hands together, and whisper to yourself what you wish for, it may or may not come true. Well fuck, of course it may or may not come true, but they say if you repent for your sins it will be of a higher chance. No that's dumb. It's stupid. There is no possible evidence suggesting that there is a god, but there is evidence supporting that the theories of religion are false. Scientific evidence denying that god created everything on earth, it's called Evolution. /rant /rant /rant /rant /rant /rant /rant
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Normally, I would lock this thread because I can see it turning into a flame war, but I love religious debates, they're funny.
Continue.
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Le'sigh, if I am about to type out a paragraph worths of my opinion only for you to only be trolling, I will find you, and I will poop in your ear.
Religion, Religion is a form of control for society, created in the dark ages as a way for people to believe there is hope. A false sense of hope for people who believed that if they where to repent and believe that their troubles would go away. This, turned out to somewhat be true, as people began to educate themselves but in the wrong ways, they began to learn about the false gods. Of course, before the dark ages there was indeed the Greek/Roman Gods but those where for nature and other things which is fine, because it is not saying that some unnamed god created the world because he deemed it fit to do so and sends his son to die on a cross. Then there is of course just the fact its complete rubbish. Hold your hands together, and whisper to yourself what you wish for, it may or may not come true. Well fuck, of course it may or may not come true, but they say if you repent for your sins it will be of a higher chance. No that's dumb. It's stupid. There is no possible evidence suggesting that there is a god, but there is evidence supporting that the theories of religion are false. Scientific evidence denying that god created everything on earth, it's called Evolution. /rant /rant /rant /rant /rant /rant /rant
Theories. Doesn't mean it's true.
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I am not debating anything with anyone, I am spreading the truth. But, I believe this should probably be stopped before it turns into a flame war.
CONT- A theory is a well tested hypothesis. Look around you, bacteria is constantly evolving from gods "Perfect" form he had set for them.
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Theories. Doesn't mean it's true.
Please define the word "Theory" for me, in your own words.
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To be honest this should be locked. We all have our own beliefs and all have our own "facts" to some how support it. Bottom line is we really no jack about the universe so we can't say who is right or wrong. Just guys, take it easy, your going either "RELIGION RELIGION RELIGION" or " NO RELIGION NO RELIGION NO RELIGION." Lets just get along and stop being aggressive. Ahh, I do expect someone to reply and say their same stuff again, if so, Ill come back with a 10 minute voice chat of saying what I think. I don't really think you want to hear it. PS This has gotton way way way off topic, we go from how religion affects relationships to how religion is false and stupid. No one is right here. I suggest you lock this now.
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Theories. Doesn't mean it's true.
Please define the word "Theory" for me, in your own words.
Please do define Theory.
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Theories. Doesn't mean it's true.
Please define the word "Theory" for me, in your own words.
Please do define Theory.
I'll explain about theories. A theory is a prediction of how something like for example evolution (Which I believe that creationism and evolution both work IMO) it is a prediction of how we evolve, but we do not know how they did and if it does happen. I suppose DNA can solve that, but we are not quite sure of how this DNA formed. So we use a hypothesis of how it happened.
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You're close, but not quite right. A theory is an idea that has overwhelming evidence that has yet to be refuted despite multiple attempts.
Gravity is just as much a theory as evolution. Are you to tell me that Gravity is "just a theory" and that you can fly away because you don't believe in it?
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Oh god it's the "it's only a theory" argument again.
Within the scientific community, the title of theory is the highest confidence that something can be rewarded. We don't call something like gravity or evolution a fact because we acknowledge that evidence to disprove it could arise in the future. What one says in claiming something is a theory is that the evidence supports it and that there is nothing yet to the contrary.
Someone, I don't remember who, said it best- something along the lines of that it's funny that the religious are so often eager to hop onto the "it's just a theory" argument when in fact it's only called a theory due to the humility of science.
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Why not simply keep your beliefs to yourselfs and don't bug others about it.
There's morals implemented in human life as morals are implemented in animal life, whether its God or some genetics, it doesn't matter.
Be a good person not because you believe you'll go to hell if you don't, do it because you should and it well makes you feel good often.
Religion causes too many damn wars and ridiculous bullshit and often it can contradict itself.
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Why not simply keep your beliefs to yourselfs and don't bug others about it.
There's morals implemented in human life as morals are implemented in animal life, whether its God or some genetics, it doesn't matter.
Be a good person not because you believe you'll go to hell if you don't, do it because you should and it well makes you feel good often.
Religion causes too many damn wars and ridiculous bullshit and often it can contradict itself.
Again, I'd like to point out the Humanist movement. While it is often associated with secularism and non-theism, there are nothing in its tendencies that would really be against the religious- I feel it's something everyone could join together on, were it not for restrictive dogma.
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You're close, but not quite right. A theory is an idea that has overwhelming evidence that has yet to be refuted despite multiple attempts.
Gravity is just as much a theory as evolution. Are you to tell me that Gravity is "just a theory" and that you can fly away because you don't believe in it?
Clearly because Newtons /law/ of Gravity doesn't mean anything.
Someone you also forgot that after some point in time if there's been no proof to disprove the theory it becomes a /Law/.
But we also live in a world were theories can become /Laws/ with proof still standing that they are/can be wrong(Global warming).
You are leaving off points to you argument that can be used to disprove you.
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You're close, but not quite right. A theory is an idea that has overwhelming evidence that has yet to be refuted despite multiple attempts.
Gravity is just as much a theory as evolution. Are you to tell me that Gravity is "just a theory" and that you can fly away because you don't believe in it?
Clearly because Newtons /law/ of Gravity doesn't mean anything.
Someone you also forgot that after some point in time if there's been no proof to disprove the theory it becomes a /Law/.
But we also live in a world were theories can become /Laws/ with proof still standing that they are/can be wrong(Global warming).
You are leaving off points to you argument that can be used to disprove you.
You're stupid Juggernaut, a Law is something that just happens, there is no way to explain it, it just happens. Gravity is caused by the attraction of the large of mass of electrons and the other entities protons, they attract together. Its a simple concept really, and requires no real basis of degrees or college education to understand.
I WILL STAND BY SOMONE77 UNTIL I DIE
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You're close, but not quite right. A theory is an idea that has overwhelming evidence that has yet to be refuted despite multiple attempts.
Gravity is just as much a theory as evolution. Are you to tell me that Gravity is "just a theory" and that you can fly away because you don't believe in it?
Clearly because Newtons /law/ of Gravity doesn't mean anything.
Someone you also forgot that after some point in time if there's been no proof to disprove the theory it becomes a /Law/.
But we also live in a world were theories can become /Laws/ with proof still standing that they are/can be wrong(Global warming).
You are leaving off points to you argument that can be used to disprove you.
You're stupid Juggernaut, a Law is something that just happens, there is no way to explain it, it just happens. Gravity is caused by the attraction of the large of mass of electrons and the other entities protons, they attract together. Its a simple concept really, and requires no real basis of degrees or college education to understand.
I WILL STAND BY SOMONE77 UNTIL I DIE
FIRST no need to start calling people stupid(Flaming)...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_law
Yeah yeah I know Wikipedia but look it up elsewhere I'm still half right.
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If you take offense to me calling you stupid, you must be very fragile mentally and emotionally probably even physically.
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You're close, but not quite right. A theory is an idea that has overwhelming evidence that has yet to be refuted despite multiple attempts.
Gravity is just as much a theory as evolution. Are you to tell me that Gravity is "just a theory" and that you can fly away because you don't believe in it?
Gravity isn't a theory in my opinion('tis a fact), but I was thinking on top of my head and forgot to mention to also say it support by heavy evidence.
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Gravity is caused by the attraction of the large of mass of electrons and the other entities protons, they attract together. Its a simple concept really, and requires no real basis of degrees or college education to understand.
I guess I must be the one to point out that this is not true?
You're close, but not quite right. A theory is an idea that has overwhelming evidence that has yet to be refuted despite multiple attempts.
Gravity is just as much a theory as evolution. Are you to tell me that Gravity is "just a theory" and that you can fly away because you don't believe in it?
Gravity isn't a theory in my opinion('tis a fact), but I was thinking on top of my head and forgot to mention to also say it support by heavy evidence.
With all due respect you're wrong, and whether it is your opinion that gravity is a "fact" or not has no affect on whether or not it actually is.
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If we are to keep this interesting discussion open (which I really want it to) then you must contain yourselves from flaming, otherwise it'll be promptly locked and the stereotype of "every thread about religion is shot down in flames" will be reinforced. I enjoy discussing religion, and I do it without insulting my peers or my opponent.
The whole point of these discussions is not to convince the other party of your personal view, but to help them understand it. You're not going to help them understanding it if you just insult them.
Anyway morals, morals are subjective and derive from an observable process in the brain called empathy. Even the Christian Bible shows that morality is subjective. Do you still believe it's moral that you should be forced to marry your rapist? I think not.
Theories, it's often a mistake made by the religious community between layman's "theory" and scientific "theory". A scientific theory is a hypothesis that has been verified via experiments and observations, and therefore under much scrutiny. As for the theory of Evolution, if you understand Biology then you'll realise that the entire framework of Biology rests upon Evolution. And it works. Do you think scientists would rest an entire scientific field on just a "good idea" that "well, it could be possible"? No. This does not mean Evolution is an absolute truth, it is still open for scrutiny and if evidence is presented that parts of the theory of Evolution may be incorrect, then it will be revised.
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If we are to keep this interesting discussion open (which I really want it to) then you must contain yourselves from flaming, otherwise it'll be promptly locked and the stereotype of "every thread about religion is shot down in flames" will be reinforced. I enjoy discussing religion, and I do it without insulting my peers or my opponent.
The whole point of these discussions is not to convince the other party of your personal view, but to help them understand it. You're not going to help them understanding it if you just insult them.
Anyway morals, morals are subjective and derive from an observable process in the brain called empathy. Even the Christian Bible shows that morality is subjective. Do you still believe it's moral that you should be forced to marry your rapist? I think not.
I left off a bit due to me needing to do school work.
Corruption has changed religion to benefit who controls it/what the person thinks is right(Hence the rape thing)(The brits would know this the best)
And before you go "LOL YOUR USING AN EXCUSE" Remember that corruption is in everybody's heart and is also one of Christians "Seven deadly sins" there are morals there that I agree with and others that don't, but who the hell is to say that the bible that you get at a book store/walmart(If your Texan like me :/) people change things to the way they see them/can translate them.
Every thing is subjected to corruption and corruption isn't just in the upper high-class/"ruling class"(Congress) its everywhere and I think that the religions of the middle east(If you don't know them all think of all the ones that have started wars in the last 3000 years over religion) where made to remove corruption/greed from humanity and people will always take things too far and change them to make them right.
If we're debating religion but its just the ones that come from the middle east, what about The Asian ones that people always forget?(I bet you lot can't name the major ones)
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and I think that the religions of the middle east(If you don't know them all think of all the ones that have started wars in the last 3000 years over religion)
This is one of the most blatantly ignorant statements I've ever heard made. First of all, it's obvious you're implying Islam here. Secondly, to say that this religion has started all the wars in the past 3000 years is simply ridiculous. I am in NO way standing up for Islam, but Christianity is hardly scot-free of blame. Secondly, even if it were true that they had started these wars, 3000 years? Really? Islam hasn't even been around for 2000 years.
It's somewhat frustrating and limiting to a discussion when its participants lack a BASIC understanding of the matter at hand yet presume to act as if they do.
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Sorry Juggs, but you have done goofed hard on your history there.
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and I think that the religions of the middle east(If you don't know them all think of all the ones that have started wars in the last 3000 years over religion)
This is one of the most blatantly ignorant statements I've ever heard made. First of all, it's obvious you're implying Islam here. Secondly, to say that this religion has started all the wars in the past 3000 years is simply ridiculous. I am in NO way standing up for Islam, but Christianity is hardly scot-free of blame. Secondly, even if it were true that they had started these wars, 3000 years? Really? Islam hasn't even been around for 2000 years.
It's somewhat frustrating and limiting to a discussion when its participants lack a BASIC understanding of the matter at hand yet presume to act as if they do.
I meant Christianity AND Islam.
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(I bet you lot can't name the major ones)
Buddhism, Confucianism, Shinto, Taoism are the only ones I remember practiced in Asia.
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(I bet you lot can't name the major ones)
Buddhism, Confucianism, Shinto, Taoism are the only ones I remember practiced in Asia.
Nailed it in the head at a mile away.
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and I think that the religions of the middle east(If you don't know them all think of all the ones that have started wars in the last 3000 years over religion)
This is one of the most blatantly ignorant statements I've ever heard made. First of all, it's obvious you're implying Islam here. Secondly, to say that this religion has started all the wars in the past 3000 years is simply ridiculous. I am in NO way standing up for Islam, but Christianity is hardly scot-free of blame. Secondly, even if it were true that they had started these wars, 3000 years? Really? Islam hasn't even been around for 2000 years.
It's somewhat frustrating and limiting to a discussion when its participants lack a BASIC understanding of the matter at hand yet presume to act as if they do.
I meant Christianity AND Islam.
Don't forget Judaism! They have been around for almost 5000 years in the middle east (debatable on when it was actually a religion with structure). But yeah Christianity was implied because that's where it ultimately started. Its just a spin off of Judaism created by St Paul (that is right. Jesus was a Jew and his disciples were Jews until they died. It was Paul who drove other followers after Jesus died towards a new religion. If it wasn't for him its possible we would all still be Jewish, at least the Christians that is.)
Anyway that's beside the point. I love to read peoples ideas on religion but all in all its a pointless game. Unfortunately in life nothing (and I mean nothing) is certain. Quite literately fact does not exist. Its just down to likely hood of something occurring. For example: We were created 200 years ago by space shrooms who appeared from a cooking pot in modern day and time traveled. These space shrooms laid down the path for everything and define how we worked. By the time you finish reading this the world will end.
Now this is unlikely. But at the same time not impossible. Why? Because in all certainty no one was alive 200 years ago to dispute. Still you would be insane to believe it because all the odds are against it happening. For modern day theories its the same. Gravity may not exist, its unlikely, but it could be a lie. The point I'm trying to make (as insane as it is) is that religion is possible. It cannot be disproved, nothing can (In a sense). Its also possible that science is 100% accurate at the moment. But it might not be. If you get what I'm saying.
IMO the only thing that is impossible is us trying to disprove/prove religion.
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and I think that the religions of the middle east(If you don't know them all think of all the ones that have started wars in the last 3000 years over religion)
This is one of the most blatantly ignorant statements I've ever heard made. First of all, it's obvious you're implying Islam here. Secondly, to say that this religion has started all the wars in the past 3000 years is simply ridiculous. I am in NO way standing up for Islam, but Christianity is hardly scot-free of blame. Secondly, even if it were true that they had started these wars, 3000 years? Really? Islam hasn't even been around for 2000 years.
It's somewhat frustrating and limiting to a discussion when its participants lack a BASIC understanding of the matter at hand yet presume to act as if they do.
I meant Christianity AND Islam.
Still off by a thousand years.
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Do people have to disprove the existence of unicorns? How about dragons, or kracken?
No. Because there's no evidence to back these things up, people don't believe in them. It's only because of deception and self-deception that this is not the case for religion.
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and I think that the religions of the middle east(If you don't know them all think of all the ones that have started wars in the last 3000 years over religion)
This is one of the most blatantly ignorant statements I've ever heard made. First of all, it's obvious you're implying Islam here. Secondly, to say that this religion has started all the wars in the past 3000 years is simply ridiculous. I am in NO way standing up for Islam, but Christianity is hardly scot-free of blame. Secondly, even if it were true that they had started these wars, 3000 years? Really? Islam hasn't even been around for 2000 years.
It's somewhat frustrating and limiting to a discussion when its participants lack a BASIC understanding of the matter at hand yet presume to act as if they do.
I meant Christianity AND Islam.
Don't forget Judaism! They have been around for almost 5000 years in the middle east (debatable on when it was actually a religion with structure). But yeah Christianity was implied because that's where it ultimately started. Its just a spin off of Judaism created by St Paul (that is right. Jesus was a Jew and his disciples were Jews until they died. It was Paul who drove other followers after Jesus died towards a new religion. If it wasn't for him its possible we would all still be Jewish, at least the Christians that is.)
Anyway that's beside the point. I love to read peoples ideas on religion but all in all its a pointless game. Unfortunately in life nothing (and I mean nothing) is certain. Quite literately fact does not exist. Its just down to likely hood of something occurring. For example: We were created 200 years ago by space shrooms who appeared from a cooking pot in modern day and time traveled. These space shrooms laid down the path for everything and define how we worked. By the time you finish reading this the world will end.
Now this is unlikely. But at the same time not impossible. Why? Because in all certainty no one was alive 200 years ago to dispute. Still you would be insane to believe it because all the odds are against it happening. For modern day theories its the same. Gravity may not exist, its unlikely, but it could be a lie. The point I'm trying to make (as insane as it is) is that religion is possible. It cannot be disproved, nothing can (In a sense). Its also possible that science is 100% accurate at the moment. But it might not be. If you get what I'm saying.
IMO the only thing that is impossible is us trying to disprove/prove religion.
200 years ago it was 1812, and people were alive then :v
And tell me, is knowledge such loose weave of a morning when you decide to leave your house by your door, or by the window on your second floor?
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Sorry don't make the mistake that I believe in any way that the world was created 200 years ago by mushrooms. And yes I leave by the door but the window exit is still possible, its just unlikely I would take that path.
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Sorry don't make the mistake that I believe in any way that the world was created 200 years ago by mushrooms. And yes I leave by the door but the window exit is still possible, its just unlikely I would take that path.
Because you know that if you were to leave by the window on your second floor that you would fall and severely injure yourself.
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Sorry don't make the mistake that I believe in any way that the world was created 200 years ago by mushrooms. And yes I leave by the door but the window exit is still possible, its just unlikely I would take that path.
Because you know that if you were to leave by the window on your second floor that you would fall and severely injure yourself.
Exactly! That's what I'm trying to say. It is unlikely that I would leave my house like that because I would be stupid too. We should dismiss the idea because its soo unlikely but that doesn't mean it's not possible.
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It's not about possibility it's about knowledge, you can say with confidence that you know that if you step out of your second floor window that you'll fall and damage yourself.
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Indeed, IMO I think the idea of a God isn't logical and so I am an athiest, but no matter how hard I try it will always be "possible" that there is a God somehow, even if it is unlikely (imo)
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Indeed, IMO I think the idea of a God isn't logical and so I am an athiest, but no matter how hard I try it will always be "possible" that there is a God somehow, even if it is unlikely (imo)
Richard Dawkins in his book, "The God Delusion" he describes what he calls the Spectrum of Theistic Probability (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectrum_of_theistic_probability) which will describe a person and their beliefs toward a god.
He, and I for that matter, describes himself as a level "6.9" because he's almost certain that there is no god, however, as new evidence shows up, there's always that chance. However, in the event that evidence of a god was found and proven, it ceases to be a religion and becomes science.
You would probably fit right in that category as well. Anyone who considers them self a 7 is almost as closed minded as a level 1 theist. You have to look at it this way;
you can be certain you did the math problem right, but there's always a margin of error, be it large or small.
Also, one more thing, in a thread such as this, you don't need to label everything you say with "in my opinion". Of course it's your opinion, that's the point of the thread.
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Funny you should say how if God were proven then it would become a science because many Christians do that, but the other way round. Lots of Christians say that St Thomas Aquinas first cause argument can be used to say that God created the big bang and then evolution etc.
Unfortunately though the first cause argument is pretty strong, it’s hard to comprehend at this point how the universe and all of existence could have come about without some kind of divine creator. It's the only religious argument that stumps me :P
Otherwise you summed up what I was trying to say quite well; still I am not much of a Richard Dawkins fan. I always see him portrayed as somewhat of an "extremist atheist" in the sense that he has an “I’m right and your wrong attitude”. But on the other hand I haven’t read all of the God delusion and as a Scientist he is very good.