Author Topic: Lucid Dreaming (Right section?)  (Read 17179 times)

Offline SoapANator

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Lucid Dreaming (Right section?)
« on: January 18, 2012, 09:46:14 PM »
Yeah, Lucid dreaming. I just discovered what it was. I want to know from to know from the community is it a good idea or not.

Explain why is it a good / bad idea and why.
I want to have one but I'm very cautious if this a good idea at all. Since some things that happened to some people.
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Offline Tyler

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Re: Lucid Dreaming (Right section?)
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2012, 09:47:39 PM »
Yeah, it's very... I wouldent say fun, but interesting. Definently something to try if you can do it.

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Offline Heavy

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Re: Lucid Dreaming (Right section?)
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2012, 10:51:55 PM »
Lucid dreaming...It's honestly really weird the first time.

I remember when I was younger, I had a lucid dream when I had no idea what lucid dreaming was. I remember waking up thinking what happened was too real, and I remember feeling everything I touched as if it were life.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2012, 10:55:27 PM by Heavy »

Offline Adrian ?NoRagrets

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Re: Lucid Dreaming (Right section?)
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2012, 04:23:08 AM »
Incoming information; BRACE!

*Morgan Freeman is now narrating this text in your head*

This is NOT religious bullshit, it has been effectively backed up by scientific evidence.
Lucid dreaming is a scientifically proven state of mind.


What is lucid dreaming?

Dreaming is a state of mind during sleep when the brain reaches a certain activity called the "Theta" state. During this state, the brain operates at a frequency of around 5 Hz. This is also called "REM-sleep", as you probably know since you've looked into all this. At this state, several other brain functions have been deactivated, for example the "Dorsolaterl Prefrontal Cortex" or DPC. The DPC is the part of the brain that helps us understand the difference between "You" and "Me", and without it we're unable to differentiate ourselves from the rest of the world. It controls rational and logical thinking and your self-awareness.  In short, you could say it controls your "First-person logics", which is why you are able to dream in third-person when in the brain "Theta" stage.
 
During this low brain activity our dreams are very bland and blurry and it is often very difficult to remember anything of what you have seen during the night.

If you raise the brain activity to 10-35 Hz, your brain now enters the "Beta" state. This is when you're normally awake, 10 Hz being just woken up and 35 Hz being incredibly (and rarely) alert. During the course of the day, it is completely impossible to raise brain activity above 35 Hz because such are the limitations of the brain.

Raising the frequency additionally, which is only possible during sleep, your brain enters a "Gamma" state. The Gamma state covers the frequencies 35-60 Hz, and occurs when you are having a lucid dream. 35 Hz being a semi-lucid dream and 60 Hz being a lucid dream so vivid that you couldn't tell if apart from reality if you didn't know you were dreaming.

So what actually happens during lucid dreaming to raise the brain activity to such extremes? During daytime, your brain functions are limited to processing short-term information such operating logic, taste, smell, auditory senses and so on. When the night kicks in, your brain functions completely differently. Logic is no longer being processed in the brain, and the brain enters a state of recovery. This state of recovery is meant to process all input information that was given during that day, for example putting knowledge you learned into long-term memory. It processes people you've seen, impressions you've observed and in summary goes through your day to understand what has happened.

Turning off all logic in the brain causes the brain activity to drop dramatically, even though this recovery process is still ongoing. Disabling logic and self awareness also causes a confusion in the brain, making it believe you are going through everything you went through the day before, BUT WITHOUT LOGIC. This is why your dreams are sometimes f- up good.

But if something were to happen during nighttime that caused your DPC to re-enable itself, the DPC would in turn enable ALL your senses, causing brain activity to go crazy. The brain activity raise is because of neuron cross-fire between the different parts of the brain, which NEVER happens during the Beta state, due to the recovery functions of the brain being disabled.

When the different parts of the brain starts to cross-fire electrical impulses, you enter a state of imaginary reality. ALL your senses are enabled, including your self-awareness, causing you to experience a dream so vivid that it could very well be real. You start smelling, hearing, tasting and feeling things inside the dream. Your brain is now frenetically showing data back and forth while processing it with logic; this causes the sensation of lucid dreaming.

Questions about lucid dreaming?

1) Is there any chance to get lost in the dream, and actually end up believing you're in reality?
No, this isn't inception. As stated, your DPC is enabled, processing everything with logic. You understand very quickly that what you are seeing is not real. Lucid dreaming has several times been compared to drug trips, where you experience an incredibly vivid but unrealistic experience. Even as you trip, you realize that what you're seeing is not real. This does not necessarily mean that you can't enjoy your trip or your dream.

2) Can I get injured physically or mentally by experiencing lucid dreams?
No, not if you do it with moderation. The sensation of lucid dreaming is experienced due to a re-activation of your Prefrontal Cortex during sleep. The re-activation in itself is not harmful, and neither is the electric-impulse cross-fire that is caused by the re-activation. However, the Prefrontal Cortex shuts down for a reason during nighttime; It needs to rest. Generally during one night, the Prefrontal Cortex will need 30 minutes of rest, even if it stays deactivated all night. Why doesn't it re-activate after 30 minutes? According to the brain, it doesn't need the Prefrontal Cortex to perform any of its given tasks, and it is just a waste of energy. Noteworthy though is that lucid dreaming IS NOT the same thing as staying awake, considering the brain recovery is active during lucidity.

3) How do terminate a lucid dream?
Terminating a lucid dream is simple, but consider it carefully before you do.
During sleep, the body paralyzes the major muscle groups of the body, to avoid you from getting up and running around when you're dreaming. When you are dreaming, the EXACT same impulses are sent to your muscles as when you're awake, hence the paralyzing of the muscles. The body does however NOT paralyze minor muscle groups, such as the top of your fingers and toes. If you continue to move your fingers or toes, the brain will start interpreting a strange sensation coming from outside the dream. This sensation is your toes or fingers moving while you're in your bed, and will effectively scare the brain to raise your heart-rate and consequently effectively waking you up.

4) My lucid dream is blurry, how do I make it more lucid?
Vivid lucid dreaming is a skill that takes practice, and you are not very likely to perform a successful perfectly vivid lucid dream the first time you try. What you should to to improve lucidity is to use your senses during the dream to wake your Prefrontal Cortex to a more awake state. This can be done simply by rubbing your hands together to induce feeling, or spinning around on the spot to induce the sensation of balance. There are endless of ways to improve lucidity, but most importantly you need to practice. People who only have experienced lucid dreaming once or twice will not understand how vivid a dream can truly become.

How do I become lucid?

There are several methods, but here are the two most commonly used methods.

1) Dream-induced lucid dreaming (DILD)
This method utilizes normal dreaming which later during the dream turns into a lucid dream. This is not as effective as the method below, but a tenfold easier. The principle is to identify reality through regular "dream-checks". An example is to write an "A" as in awake on your palm, and check your hand with regular intervals. If you do this for long enough, you will end up doing this regularly in your dream as well, since your brain is set to check your hand every hour for example. If you end up checking your hand during your dream, and you notice that there is no longer an "A" on your palm, or you notice that you have more or less than 5 fingers, you increase your chances of waking your Prefrontal Cortex up dramatically. This would lead directly to lucid dreaming, but NOT a very vivid dream. You would have to take further steps to make the dream more lucid (check questions above).
You can experiment with ways of questioning reality in any way that suits you, for example you could say "Every time I see the color yellow, I'm going to ask myself the question if I am dreaming" and so on.

2) Wake-induced lucid dreaming (WILD)
This method utilizes a principle of moving directly from a consciousness (awake) state to a dreaming state. This is my preferred method of lucid dreaming, but it takes a lot of practice and can in the early stages of practicing be very unsettling or uncomfortable.
With this method you will retain consciousness as you fall asleep, consequently forcing your brain to rem-sleep with your Prefrontal Cortex already active. The method requires you to go through a state of "Hypnagogia", which is to some a very unpleasant experience. Hypnagogia is the transitional state between being awake and being asleep. We all go through Hypnagogia every night we go to sleep, but by the time it kicks in we have already lost our consciousness. Retaining consciousness until Hypnagogia is very difficult to beginners and you should not give up if you fail the first time.

So what exactly happens during Hypnagogia?
As your brain prepares to go to sleep, it shuts down you physical body. The first step is muscular paralysis, and during this state you may feel very uncomfortable. For example, you may have a very difficult time breathing, as several major chest-expansion muscles shut down. What is important to understand is that THESE SENSATIONS ARE NOT REAL. You are NOT suffocating, only experiencing the sensation of suffocating. The best you can do to endure it is to embrace the feeling and think of it as a special and unique experience.
After your major muscle-groups have been paralyzed, you will start experiencing sleep onset. Your brain recovery functions are activated which consequently begins the cross-fire between the different parts of the brain. Your Prefrontal Cortex will for a start experience this as very uncomfortable, and start to exaggerate your sensations to an extreme. The most common experiences are: 1) You will start to feel as if your whole body is shaking violently. 2) You will feel a falling sensation, as if you're falling through your bed and the ground. 3) You will hear extremely loud noises, such as bangs or explosions. 4) You will feel a presence, as if somebody is leaning over your bed and watching you.
REMEMBER: None of these experiences are REAL and can NOT hurt you physically. For example: You cannot go deaf from the noises since they are just a product of your brains over-activity. You are lying completely still in your bed as your brain starts the activity of lucid dreaming. (To break out of Hypnagogia purposely, due to being scared or uncomfortable, use the same steps as breaking out of a lucid dream above.)

During the time you are experiencing these sensations, you will also start hallucinating as if on a drug trip. You will see colors and strange shapes forming behind your eyelids, which is the effect of the forced rem-sleep. This is your dream forming before your conscious eyes. You may see faces, monsters and strange places you have no memory of ever seeing in real life. This is to me the most fascinating part of the Hypnagogia, as your dream is built before you.

After the Hypnagogia comes to an end, and the strange colors before your eyes have finally turned into a dream there is only a single challenge left; to enter the dream. This may sound as a confusing concept, but for most people, as your dream forms before them they're not a "part" of it, they are just observing it. This is a concept that cannot be explained properly with words, and needs to be experienced to be understood. My solution to this problem was to "step into the dream"; as the dream forms I step into a type of surreal frame and finally I am part of the lucid dream. I have also noticed that you can chose to observe the dream from the outside, without stepping into it, but this makes you lose all control of your dream as it flashes before you.

After completing the "WILD" process, you should now be dreaming an incredibly lucid and vivid dream.

There are hundred of detailed guides on google on how to perform WILD. Below are some examples:
http://www.dreamviews.com/wiki/WILD-Wake-Initiated-Lucid-Dream
http://www.world-of-lucid-dreaming.com/wake-induced-lucid-dreams.html
http://www.wikihow.com/Have-a-Wake-Induced-Lucid-Dream-(WILD)

My own experiences with lucid dreaming

I've been a lucid dreamer for roughly a year now and my dreams are becoming more and more vivid by the week. I use wake-induced lucid dreaming to experience it rather than dream-induced lucid dreaming. The reason for that is because I tried using DILD about a year and a half ago, but gave up after around 4 months. That's when I started experimenting with WILD and Hypnagogia. My first experiences with a successful WILD was incredible, but it took me several months to learn to perform it half-decently. During my first few WILD-seasons, I didn't even get to the Hypnagogia and was terribly disappointed. A few attempts later, I reached Hypnagogia and got so excited about it that I broke out of it and woke up instantly. The rest of the attempts were just practice to learn to stay calm and control my sensations to get past Hypnagogia. When I actually got past it I was in for a crazy experience, and had an incredibly lucid and vivid dream.

My recommendation is only to do this if you really are interested, and if you do, do NOT give up easily. If you manage to master the methods for dreaming lucidly, you will experience different levels of human consciousness, which is as "Brandon" posted a very interesting experience.

Good luck! <3

e; tldr: do it.

Works cited: None, bitches.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2012, 07:02:38 AM by Nicole Slater »

Re: Lucid Dreaming (Right section?)
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2012, 06:46:47 AM »
Lucid Dreaming is fucked up.

The first time I tried it I was too scared to even try after reading peoples' opinions about it, that you wouldn't be able to move, every shadow would become something, your sanity would be very unreal. - It would feel like you are dying, seeing yet not being able to do anything. - So I couldn't do it and just kept moving my body for a week after I read it, trying NOT to Lucid Dream.

Then after a while, it just happened to me, not just once. - I just go to bed, lay down, unaware of actually 'summoning' a lucid dream, not moving. I would open my eyes, see my whole room. For some reason I tried to stand up, get out of my bed. Then this weird feeling rushed me and scared me, I couldn't move. So I tried to look at my arm in an instant, I swear I moved it in front of me, I had the feeling of lifting it, but I couldn't see it. Then I went, oh this is Lucid Dreaming. - Scared of what to come I turned my head to my left really fast and I woke up.

Then it happened again, and basically I woke myself up, I was too excited or something.
If you read things about people seeing stuff, that didn't happen to me. Nor did the feeling of a very heavy blanket laying on your feet, nor did I feel my legs going up to my head or something.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2012, 06:48:54 AM by Martinerrr »

Offline Black Elf

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Re: Lucid Dreaming (Right section?)
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2012, 03:17:00 PM »
My symptoms are very similar to Martin. Just an acute awareness of my being whilst in a dream like state, nothing alarming other than feeling movement without actually seeing it. As for the waking up on my own.. I haven't gotten to controlling that yet, I just sorta snap out of it after a while.

Offline Statua

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Re: Lucid Dreaming (Right section?)
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2012, 03:37:14 PM »
It's heard to get into the state where you can do whatever the hell you can dream of. (literally) I was trying for a few months. The best I could do was I was on a road trip to the states and decided to change my Honda Civic to a Lamborghini Diablo. It worked but I got excited and woke myself up.

One easy thing to do is know your dream signs. Mine are numbers never stay the same. Example, on the road trip, I looked at the sign and it said like $1.67/L. I looked at a friend then back at the sign and it said $1.34 so I knew then I was dreaming.

Basically, you cant lucid dream unless you know you're dreaming in the dream world. And if you do, don't get too excited.


Re: Lucid Dreaming (Right section?)
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2012, 03:41:58 PM »
Basically, you cant lucid dream unless you know you're dreaming in the dream world. And if you do, don't get too excited.
Oh right, Lucid Dreaming also fucks up your idea of reality. That's what Inception actually was based off of, after me having it a while. I kept looking at my hands if they were distorted.

Offline Sheepyea

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Re: Lucid Dreaming (Right section?)
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2012, 03:50:32 PM »
Word of advice though: Lucid dreaming doesn't, to my experience, provide as much rest as a normal night's sleep. So don't do it if you need to get up early. You'll hate yourself.

Offline Somone77

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Re: Lucid Dreaming (Right section?)
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2012, 04:33:53 PM »
Also, be careful if you are looking for a quick way and try the "WILD" method, sleep paralysis is harmless, but is fucking terrifying if you aren't prepared for it. Common hallucinations are clocked black figures approaching slowly to the foot of your bed while you can't move your arms or legs. I used to get that when I was ~6 (had a sleeping disorder) and it was the worst experience of my life.

Lucid dreaming, however, can be one of the best experiences of your life. Not only can it let you do things you can't in real life, but it can help you solve major problems. Many scientists have experimented with lucid dreaming as a way to understand complex mathmatics and science.

Offline Adrian ?NoRagrets

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Re: Lucid Dreaming (Right section?)
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2012, 12:05:32 AM »
Basically, you cant lucid dream unless you know you're dreaming in the dream world. And if you do, don't get too excited.
Oh right, Lucid Dreaming also fucks up your idea of reality. That's what Inception actually was based off of, after me having it a while. I kept looking at my hands if they were distorted.

No. Inception is based of off several myths and legends surrounding dreams, and has nothing to do with the reality of lucid dreaming. You cannot lose yourself in a dream nor can you dream in layers. Your prefrontal cortex nullifies these myths and handles your logics appropriately while lucidly dreaming. There can on the other hand be the illusion of dreaming in layers, but all that's happening in the brain is that your dream changes to another dream. If you have a dream of waking up, and the dream switches "back" to the other dream, you experience the sensation of dreaming in layers.

Re: Lucid Dreaming (Right section?)
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2012, 08:00:56 AM »
Basically, you cant lucid dream unless you know you're dreaming in the dream world. And if you do, don't get too excited.
Oh right, Lucid Dreaming also fucks up your idea of reality. That's what Inception actually was based off of, after me having it a while. I kept looking at my hands if they were distorted.

No. Inception is based of off several myths and legends surrounding dreams, and has nothing to do with the reality of lucid dreaming. You cannot lose yourself in a dream nor can you dream in layers. Your prefrontal cortex nullifies these myths and handles your logics appropriately while lucidly dreaming. There can on the other hand be the illusion of dreaming in layers, but all that's happening in the brain is that your dream changes to another dream. If you have a dream of waking up, and the dream switches "back" to the other dream, you experience the sensation of dreaming in layers.
I am just saying it is based off of, base is not entirely it. - What kind of myths are these.. Source?

Offline autism

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Lucid Dreaming (Right section?)
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2012, 08:30:09 AM »
Im really confused... How is this even possible... This sounds very interesting, but how is this done?


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Offline Adrian ?NoRagrets

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Re: Lucid Dreaming (Right section?)
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2012, 08:40:27 AM »
Basically, you cant lucid dream unless you know you're dreaming in the dream world. And if you do, don't get too excited.
Oh right, Lucid Dreaming also fucks up your idea of reality. That's what Inception actually was based off of, after me having it a while. I kept looking at my hands if they were distorted.

No. Inception is based of off several myths and legends surrounding dreams, and has nothing to do with the reality of lucid dreaming. You cannot lose yourself in a dream nor can you dream in layers. Your prefrontal cortex nullifies these myths and handles your logics appropriately while lucidly dreaming. There can on the other hand be the illusion of dreaming in layers, but all that's happening in the brain is that your dream changes to another dream. If you have a dream of waking up, and the dream switches "back" to the other dream, you experience the sensation of dreaming in layers.
I am just saying it is based off of, base is not entirely it. - What kind of myths are these.. Source?

http://www.world-of-lucid-dreaming.com/lucid-dreaming-faq.html

Here are a few answered. No scientific list of myths, if that what you were expecting :|

Re: Lucid Dreaming (Right section?)
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2012, 09:23:49 AM »
I am just saying it is based off of, base is not entirely it. - What kind of myths are these.. Source?

http://www.world-of-lucid-dreaming.com/lucid-dreaming-faq.html

Here are a few answered. No scientific list of myths, if that what you were expecting :|
No this is what I meant.

Can I talk to my subconscious in a lucid dream?
In dreams, we have easy access to our subconscious mind. It is right there, setting up the imagery and guiding the plot. So once you become lucid, you can personify your subconscious by talking to a dream figure and seeking all the information you like from your subconscious inner self. You may be surprised by the answers you get!

Handy website, yet I do think the movie itself is somewhat based off of a kind of lucid dreaming or just dreaming.

Edit: Alright, for people that didn't understand what I meant with this.
Basically, you cant lucid dream unless you know you're dreaming in the dream world. And if you do, don't get too excited.
Oh right, Lucid Dreaming also fucks up your idea of reality. That's what Inception actually was based off of, after me having it a while. I kept looking at my hands if they were distorted.
I'll explain why I said it fucks up your idea of reality. To become aware of such a dream, and control it(not wild) you'll have to do reality checks, these reality checks would tell you if you are somewhat in a dream, obviously you'll have to go deeper than just looking at your palm, if it's distorted or anything different. - But what I'm saying is, when you're not dreaming you sometimes could have the feeling, you are. And that's why it fucks up reality, in my perspective, it has quite happened. But the first time I did a reality check in my dream I didn't know what to do, I was rushed by a scared feeling and got 'kicked' out of the dream and woke up.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2012, 09:45:58 AM by Martinerrr »

 

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