Catalyst Gaming

General => General Discussion => Topic started by: DeathByKittens on December 28, 2011, 04:48:03 PM

Title: Occupy Main Street! - Hands off our Administrators!
Post by: DeathByKittens on December 28, 2011, 04:48:03 PM


Occupy Main Street!
Hands off our Administrators!



Occupy Main Street (OMS/#OMS) is an IC and OOC movement, campaigning for Roflwaffle to abolish the absurd rules placed upon Admins, which effectively mean that anybody can provoke them into a simple swear word and suddenly, they will face demotion.



At a time where OCRP is reaching critical mass of minging with a lack of administration, two active admins were demoted in less than a week, one of whom plays 9 hours a day. Smithno and Crazyninja.

Smithno was demoted for telling a spammer to "Shut the fuck up". CrazyNinja was demoted for JOKING to a friend about a ban. This friend kept the screenshot as ammunition and gave it to the CG Owner TWO WEEKS LATER because CrazyNinja was ENFORCING THE RULES and would not allow said "friend" to mug a player in a public area.

Roflwaffle has stated his reasoning for this is to avoid harbouring "corrupt admins" and as a result, driving away new and regular players alike. But is telling a spammer to "shut the fuck up" really corrupt? Is a joke the epitome of corruption? Or perhaps, should we look at RTLK?

RTLK spent weeks sticking his fingers into everyone's business, making any decisions he liked and so forth. Despite constant complaints, was he demoted? Like hell he was! Eventually half the damn community threatened and protested until he left. A good 5-10 players left because of his actions. But he was not demoted, no. He took it upon himself to eventually stand down.

Yet these two admins have been fired for that? Surely something is wrong here.

This is where the Occupy Main Street Movement began. Disgruntled by these decisions, working class Hero DeathByKittens took to the streets of Evocity in protest! A hardy band followed him and soon the city was adorned with signs and pickets, each of them protesting the plight of Catalyst-Gaming's administrators. They set up a camp in the BP, with the Mayor's grace, speaking their message to all who would listen. They kept within the laws and supported the mayor and economy by purchasing a steady stream of drinks. Finally, as they prepared for a proper demonstration on Main Street, the camp was forced to close.

And that is why I'm here.

Catalyst-Gaming is a community.
Noun:   
A group of people living together in one place, esp. one practicing common ownership: "a community of nuns".


Community. We are not a dictatorship. When the people want something, the people get something. We don't all bow down to Dear Leader Roflwaffle and line his pockets with dollars for letting us be here. When we play here, we play for fun. This isn't some sort of job or forced labour. Now, we have in place an administration team. We trust these people to deal with mingery and rule-breaking.

So how can these great people be tasked with the tedious task of protecting us FOR ABSOLUTELY NO PAYMENT OR COMPENSATION, ONLY THE GOOD OF THEIR HEARTS and yet, Roflwaffle can toss them aside for such mild offences? These aren't highly-trained, highly-professional operatives from some mercenary company, these are fucking bored teenagers, juggling this with whatever other concerns they have.
There is literally no one in this playerbase who would rather Staff were fired rather than a couple of retards sworn at.

I've been here since the first day of OCRP on Orange Cosmos. I've seen it all. I've played more than 99% of this community. I'm not doing this to be a dick. I'm not doing this because Crazy is a good friend. I'm doing this because I goddamn care about the community and the gamemode and the players. I care about the future of OCRP. I can't stand-by and let it all be destroyed. And I will be especially furious if someone decides not to heed my word and the community's concern because they have a superiority complex and like to be right.

The fact of the matter is that we've had 2 of 4 active OCRP admins go down over bullshit. That's not good enough, Roflwaffle, it really isn't. Swearing and joking is not fucking corruption. RTLK is corruption.

So this is why I organised OMS. We players want to organise an IC protest because that's where people will see it. We're not disrupting roleplay and the only drama on OOC is from admins asking us to stop. The benefits of this are:

- We've started an interesting IC event (Referring to the "plight of Evocity Administrators being fired over unfair terms")

- We've given people something to get together behind, essential in a "community".

- We've given people on OCRP something to do other than grow weed and bait cops. You need more of it.

- We've kept within the rules and avoided trying to make trouble for anyone.

We want permission to continue the movement in-game for it's IC reasons. We need a way to make it clear to Roflwaffle that change is needed and why not do it with a fun-for-everyone IC event?

We are the 99%, RoflWaffle, and we demand that you give us the change we want.
Title: Re: Occupy Main Street! - Hands off our Administrators!
Post by: Penguin on December 28, 2011, 04:50:47 PM
I support this.
Title: Re: Occupy Main Street! - Hands off our Administrators!
Post by: Crap-Head on December 28, 2011, 04:53:26 PM
If i smell any targetting (mainly towards Justin for getting Crazy demoted), i will ban whoever does it and lock this thread it.

Keep it clean, no bullshit in here.
Title: Re: Occupy Main Street! - Hands off our Administrators!
Post by: DeathByKittens on December 28, 2011, 04:55:03 PM
Mhm. It's not about WHO did it, it's about that he COULD do it.
Title: Re: Occupy Main Street! - Hands off our Administrators!
Post by: Phalanx on December 28, 2011, 04:56:16 PM
A strong message. I will be participating in OMS.
Title: Re: Occupy Main Street! - Hands off our Administrators!
Post by: Kaiser Wilhelm I ?DetroitRP on December 28, 2011, 05:03:51 PM
I really don't think there needs to be some revolution here. I think Crazy should get admin back, but that is my opinion. I really don't think there needs to "WE WANT OUR RIGHTS ROFL" when he is the guy who pays for this. Its like going to someone's house and freeloading them, then telling them their food tastes like crap. Yea, maybe it does taste a little like crap,  but its free and it should be the way he wants it.
Title: Re: Occupy Main Street! - Hands off our Administrators!
Post by: Chris Jay on December 28, 2011, 05:04:18 PM
I also support this.
Title: Re: Occupy Main Street! - Hands off our Administrators!
Post by: DeathByKittens on December 28, 2011, 05:21:27 PM
When he pays for this? Donations pay for this.
Title: Re: Occupy Main Street! - Hands off our Administrators!
Post by: FPSRussia on December 28, 2011, 05:28:02 PM
Dear god.. This is going to get out of hand and cause utter chaos. I do not want to be involved in such acts against the community and how it runs. I understand that Crazy was demoted but I am not going to put in my comments because I feel they will be flamed. I mean come on guys this was a small event on the server, it is going way to far.
Title: Re: Occupy Main Street! - Hands off our Administrators!
Post by: DeathByKittens on December 28, 2011, 05:30:31 PM
The "small event on the server" was us trying to get recognition for a bigger issue. Get over the Crazyninja part, he's just an example really.
Title: Re: Occupy Main Street! - Hands off our Administrators!
Post by: JF on December 28, 2011, 05:31:58 PM
I really don't think there needs to be some revolution here. I think Crazy should get admin back, but that is my opinion. I really don't think there needs to "WE WANT OUR RIGHTS ROFL" when he is the guy who pays for this. Its like going to someone's house and freeloading them, then telling them their food tastes like crap. Yea, maybe it does taste a little like crap,  but its free and it should be the way he wants it.
Rofl gets donations so it is actually the PEOPLE that pay for CG.
Also here's something from a chat I had with Rofl the other day:
Quote
Alaskan Christmasfuck: the way i run CG is the way I think is right
Alaskan Christmasfuck: obviously people are going to disagree
Alaskan Christmasfuck: I don't expect the entire world to like my opinions just as I don't like other peoples
Alaskan Christmasfuck: but seeing as it is mine, I see no reason to not run it the way I want
ChristmasFrizz1405: Then you truly are as selfish as everyone has said. When you made CG it turned into a big thing. You run it like a child. "It is mine so I will do what I want with it, even though people who know a thing or two have tried to help me". This isn't just a minority of admins or members, this is a big majority. See that we are trying to help you Rofl. Think about it. WHat exactly do we have to gain by pestering you to change and run it like a professional. Money? No. Praise? Hell fucking no. We do it because we love CG and the way you have been running it lately has caused a shitstorm of anger and resentment towards you and RTLK. What has happened in Libya? A dictator was overthrown because he did not listen to his people. You're a long way from Gadafi, but the principal is still there. You don't take any advice or opinion on board and you just dismiss anything that is not to your liking. You have little to no respect anymore because of the above.
ChristmasFrizz1405: Do you not see that people are trying to help you Rofl? Do you think we pester and nag you for the good of our health? No, we do it because we need you to see that players and admins are not happy with the way you are running things. A good leader must put the needs of the many before the needs of the few. We're not asking for you to become some super owner, only to be fair, professional and uphold your own rules.  You don't need to change much Rofl.

And

Quote
ChristmasFrizz1405: LEts get back to it. He stays unbanned then, even though 2 SA's and 3 normals agreed that what he did was by definition blackmail and is not only a morally currupt thing to do but it is also stated in the rules that is will get you a HEAVY ban.
ChristmasFrizz1405: But hey, we're only admins so what does our opinion or judgment matter?
Alaskan Christmasfuck: last i checked i uhh
Alaskan Christmasfuck: ran this community

Partly right, but i'd say it is more to do with the many people that put their time and effort into keeping CG alive. I.E admins, players that donate and post bug reports, ban requests, your devs etc.

That being said, Rofl will not change and I doubt anything anyone says or does will change that.
Title: Re: Occupy Main Street! - Hands off our Administrators!
Post by: FPSRussia on December 28, 2011, 05:32:17 PM
The "small event on the server" was us trying to get recognition for a bigger issue. Get over the Crazyninja part, he's just an example really.

Okay let me get this one off my chest. Your trying to get a point out there that will be locked by rofl and ignored. It is a waste of your time, I give you props for attempting it.
Title: Re: Occupy Main Street! - Hands off our Administrators!
Post by: DeathByKittens on December 28, 2011, 05:35:25 PM
That's problem exactly, Jizz. I just want more people to try and understand that their crowd tactics will get the change we want and need. But still people are sooking up to Roflwaffle
Title: Re: Occupy Main Street! - Hands off our Administrators!
Post by: Rictalspace on December 28, 2011, 05:36:47 PM
Although I support this, in the end Rofl knows the consequences of what may or may not happen with people leaving. Not to mention he is the owner, meaning his choice is his choice. If this is how he wishes to act, then we cannot do much to stop him.

Then again I do find that the rules on administrators should be much more leniant as we are all human. Having restrictions on every little thing they can say seems unfair. Demotion should only be kept for the worst of situations, probations should be more in flow than demotions.
These are just my two cents that are entirely opinionated and not directed at anyone as Crap-Head said.
Title: Re: Occupy Main Street! - Hands off our Administrators!
Post by: DeathByKittens on December 28, 2011, 05:39:18 PM
@Purple The problem is that people dismissing it like you did is why he won't change

@Rictalspace: We can stop him. We are his community. Who cares what he changes if we all leave because he won't do shit. Know that I haven't a problem with him as a person, only how he leads.
Title: Re: Occupy Main Street! - Hands off our Administrators!
Post by: Technical Abbreviations on December 28, 2011, 05:40:06 PM
I really don't think there needs to be some revolution here. I think Crazy should get admin back, but that is my opinion. I really don't think there needs to "WE WANT OUR RIGHTS ROFL" when he is the guy who pays for this. Its like going to someone's house and freeloading them, then telling them their food tastes like crap. Yea, maybe it does taste a little like crap,  but its free and it should be the way he wants it.
If hes a bad cook thats a thing, but when the food is intentionally cooked poorly, its a bit much
@jigger;
Yayaya rofl owns the host, good for him, but removing decent admins and letting an entire server go to waste for shit and giggles wont keep him hosting too much longer
Title: Re: Occupy Main Street! - Hands off our Administrators!
Post by: TOMASAS on December 28, 2011, 05:46:00 PM
All this drama is not needed...

Some of the demotions might be too harsh and could get off with a warning, but why is there so much drama created every time someone is demoted for making a mistake?

They will have a chance to get admin again if they werent demoted for something major.
Title: Re: Occupy Main Street! - Hands off our Administrators!
Post by: Rictalspace on December 28, 2011, 05:47:16 PM
@Rictalspace: We can stop him. We are his community. Who cares what he changes if we all leave because he won't do shit. Know that I haven't a problem with him as a person, only how he leads.

Something big would have to change for him to make such a move. His donations are still steadily coming in, meaning such threads do not much as much of a change. I understand that you are at how he leads, not him as a person. Although Rofl has made bad decisions, good decisions have come from him too. Besides, without him there would be no CG to start.
Support is probably the best option to make a change. People shouldn't be weary of what their saying because they are paranoid of being banned.
Whatever the outcome, I respect you for having the courage of making such a thread.
Title: Re: Occupy Main Street! - Hands off our Administrators!
Post by: Technical Abbreviations on December 28, 2011, 05:58:04 PM
All this drama is not needed...

Some of the demotions might be too harsh and could get off with a warning, but why is there so much drama created every time someone is demoted for making a mistake?

They will have a chance to get admin again if they werent demoted for something major.
You cant just take it w/o saying anything, itll just turn you to someones bitch.
Title: Re: Occupy Main Street! - Hands off our Administrators!
Post by: DeathByKittens on December 28, 2011, 06:01:08 PM
@TOM: We're sick of dumb demotions though, that's the issue. Dismissing it as drama is hardly helpful

@Rictal Thank you.
Title: Re: Occupy Main Street! - Hands off our Administrators!
Post by: Rictalspace on December 28, 2011, 06:18:25 PM
I guess that Tomasas is right in the way that they can re-earn administrator but there is also the side arguement that they shouldn't be demoted for such small reasons. Small probations or a warning/strike system would do better.
Such as having three strikes like in the CCA. One strike at a time (Depending on the severity of the situation).
One Strike = Abuse at a player/administrator or abuse of a command to gain something for himself
Two Strikes = Continued abuse of commands or at a player/Admin
Three Strikes = Large scale abuse/blackmail of a player. Large quarrel with fellow admin/SA.

This is my idea to make things a little smoother with punishments to admins. Just hope to help a bit.
Title: Re: Occupy Main Street! - Hands off our Administrators!
Post by: Adam S on December 28, 2011, 06:18:34 PM
I agree some Admins demoted was unjust,  but hey its roflwaffles community, i didnt donate.  Why should you care if you didnt donate? Not everyone is perfect with making decisions.  And trust me Its not easy managing a community full of kids..  To add to this i do agree with most of this.  Preferably Karma,  karma is a friend hes very nice when he wants to be, but half the stuff that has happened is unacceptable.  Im going to leave it there, i wish to not make a huge argument and get my permanent ban ive been promised by 3 admins.

Also...

Its Roflwaffles community, if he wants to make decisions let him.  If you dont like what he does go start your own community and try to properly manage it and then see if your users dont bitch at you too.

Also most of you have no right to bitch at him seeing you have not donated a single penny to the community.  And that is sick, your here for free and play the servers for free and still think your obligated to bitch about the owners decisions?

To those who did donate, You funded the community. But you donated.  The least you should get is a pat on the back and your perks.  You sadly dont have a say in the community, but you can influence others and yourself not to donate.  But hey, complaining on the forums GETS YOU NOWHERE. Get over it...  I have stopped my bitching.

So let me ask you...  Why should you be bitching about his actions?  Why do you think he should change? Could you do better?.

However, i do agree but please do understand its not your community.  If he wants to run it like this, let him.

Thanks for your time.
~Adam S

Also sorry to anyone who is now pissed off at me.

***Deposits his 2 cents.
Title: Re: Occupy Main Street! - Hands off our Administrators!
Post by: Super Supreme Admiral Justin on December 28, 2011, 06:21:05 PM
Now as I write this reply I realize im probably out of place to be speaking here. But bear with me. I'm For this idea, but STRONGLY AGIANST it being continued ingame. Administrator is a Out of character position. They gain nothing ICly for being admining therefore nothing can be lost ICly when they loose it. Therefore it shouldn't be protested in a IC manner.

Rofls way of running the demotion system is HIGHLY flawed. There should be a specific punishments for doing actions such as rule one. Not just a straight up demotion. Now crazy did break a rule, and he was punished according to this system of "one wrong, your gone" but what you guys should be working for is a reform of the system, not of creating drama over his demotion. Believe it or not he DID do something wrong. His punishment was not good though. You should work to get rofl to reform the punishments to more definitive system were punishments are clearly defined, not getting one persons admin back.

Now I'm not here to get flamed. I offered my solution. Weather you like it or not its out there. Id appreciate me being falsely accused being stopped. I reported it just as i explained in the report thread. Thanks.
Title: Re: Occupy Main Street! - Hands off our Administrators!
Post by: Uubucks on December 28, 2011, 06:57:59 PM
Administrator's name: CrazyNinja
Administrator's steamID: STEAM_0:0:26391507

Your steamID: STEAM_0:0:24101133

What did they do: Threats/Blackmail
What server was this on:Steam chat
Evidence: http://justinnewton.co.cc/portfolio/crazythreats%20-%20Copy.JPG
Extra details: Some links have been removed from the chat at jiggers request. Im sure he will confirm.

What did they do: Abuse of admin chat during a raid
What server was this on:OCRP
Evidence: http://justinnewton.co.cc/portfolio/DealWithIt1%20-%20copy.png
Extra details: Found in a screencap of logs i was given in the chat shown above. Link is white'd due to it showing links to the admin log system itself and requested by jigger.

What did they do: Avoiding admin situation with my org. Showing favoritism for is org by bailing his friend out of a mugging then avoiding talking to us or viewing evedince/rules that allowed us to mug him there.
What server was this on: OCRP
Evidence: Waiting till martiner gets on to post this. He has the video
Extra details:


Was already demoted for the first part, second part just adds on to that.

For those who didn't read the admin complaint and think crazy was immediately demoted for ONLY rule 1.  As Rofl stated, Crazy was banned for Rule 1 and threatening/blackmailing.  The abuse of admin chat is added on top of that.  I'm disappointed in Crazy, I don't think he should not have admin again, I believe he should correct his attitude and show he is capable of administrating to the expectations that Rofl has set before returning to the administration team.
Title: Re: Occupy Main Street! - Hands off our Administrators!
Post by: CrazyNinja on December 28, 2011, 07:36:18 PM
I'm trying to stay out of this as much as possible but I can not sit back and watch people lie about me.  I did NOT break any rules.  It was a joke,  I would never abuse or what not and in my opinion my demotion was fall out wrong.   I was demoted with false evidence and accused of things in which I did not commit.  Yes,  the joke got out of hand, indeed it did, but I did not break any rules and in which shouldn't of been demoted.  I can say a lot of bad things about both johanan and justin, but the forums is not the place to do so and I'm not going to flame and get forum banned or what not.  All I know is I as, well, I always thought I did admin well,  I am human and yes the joke got out of hand, but my demotion was unjust.  I doubt roflwaffle will change his mind and promote me back to admin as he should, but so be it.  I did not want a drama fest to be created due to my demotion, what is done is done, if RoflWaffle makes right, then bravo, if not, then it shall be.  I also realized that ever since I haven't been a admin, just for the first day, there has been chaos in OCRP due to no admins,  I was one of the most dedicated admins within CG.  I played on OCRP 9 hours a day maintaining it and doing my best to keep it clean from "trolls" or what not.  I abide by both the server rules and admin rules to the best of my abilities. I do not want anyone to reply to this post and cause even more drama or what not,  I'm just giving out my truthful opinion on the situation.


Sincerely,
CrazyNinja
Title: Re: Occupy Main Street! - Hands off our Administrators!
Post by: Chris Tyler on December 28, 2011, 09:13:39 PM
A community requires two basic aspects to survive. Administration and player base. Without one the other falls into chaos or ceases to exist.

Obviously, with being new to the community, I don't know the exact situation as it stands with the administration of this community. That being said, I have been an active part of multiple rp communities, including some of which where I was able to gain administrator privileges.

The one problem I see with this "Occupy Main Street" movement is that this is an act that WILL divide members of the community. Dividing a community such as this is EXTREMELY detrimental to the overall health (population, satisfaction with members, satisfaction with admins) of the server(s). Division of members into those who "support" and those who do not causes a fracture to occur in the community. This fracture could carry over to the server and IC interaction between players. Any fracture in any community is highly detrimental to the community. I really can't make that any more clear.
Title: Re: Occupy Main Street! - Hands off our Administrators!
Post by: Super Supreme Admiral Justin on December 28, 2011, 09:17:00 PM
This thread is not to debate your demotion crazy. You were already demoted before i made my complaint either way. Let this thread focus on how we can prevent it from happening again.

A community requires two basic aspects to survive. Administration and player base. Without one the other falls into chaos or ceases to exist.

Obviously, with being new to the community, I don't know the exact situation as it stands with the administration of this community. That being said, I have been an active part of multiple rp communities, including some of which where I was able to gain administrator privileges.

The one problem I see with this "Occupy Main Street" movement is that this is an act that WILL divide members of the community. Dividing a community such as this is EXTREMELY detrimental to the overall health (population, satisfaction with members, satisfaction with admins) of the server(s). Division of members into those who "support" and those who do not causes a fracture to occur in the community. This fracture could carry over to the server and IC interaction between players. Any fracture in any community is highly detrimental to the community. I really can't make that any more clear.


There are plenty of other admins options (even though over half of them are HL2RP admins) than JUST crazy. And on top of that you can record demos and post ban requests in less than 5 minutes....

But the movement shouldn't be allowed to be carried over ICly. As this is a OOC thing. If they wanna protest stuff ICly then so be it. Protest the decor of tides or how the IC mayor handles something, not something that cant/wont be changed.

a your self said, it will divide the community and disrupt RP.
Title: Re: Occupy Main Street! - Hands off our Administrators!
Post by: Chris Tyler on December 28, 2011, 09:27:41 PM
And I'm sure anyone that has a problem with the current administration's actions could take it up with the administrator in a well constructed private message rife with constructive criticism. It's amazing what politeness and class can accomplish.
Title: Re: Occupy Main Street! - Hands off our Administrators!
Post by: DeathByKittens on December 28, 2011, 10:08:08 PM
@Tyler: Tried that, got ignored.
Title: Re: Occupy Main Street! - Hands off our Administrators!
Post by: Penguin on December 28, 2011, 11:12:21 PM
This isn't a democracy so its not worth trying. Members have tried to get admins back it doesn't work the only way you will get Rofl's attention is if you wave 100$ in his face.
Title: Re: Occupy Main Street! - Hands off our Administrators!
Post by: ??. McBullet on December 29, 2011, 12:45:00 AM
After being seriously for the uprising of the people of CG to get what they want...

All I can say is that I'm intrigued by this parallel to real-world events. I'm starting to realize how the internet is a micro-world, so to speak. I am able to draw that conclusion due to the rapid, volatile properties of gaming communities in the regard that things happen much more quickly than real-world events.

I support the more libertarian people of CG who want the right to a protecting, fair administration, over the more authoritarian higher-administration who want an end to all this bitching, so all I can do is hope for the best here. I'm no longer focused on getting involved in the actual "riots", rather trying to do what I can to let the people do what they please to gain the majority opinion. So, I vote to let DBK proceed as he wants.
Good luck to you, with this "call to action." I guess we will see what happens.
Title: Re: Occupy Main Street! - Hands off our Administrators!
Post by: alaskan thunderfuck on December 29, 2011, 12:59:09 AM
Being active doesn't make you immune to the rules and even if he meant it as a joke, it obviously wasn't taken as one. He was demoted fairly and will remain demoted until he proves to me he's capable. Locked.
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