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Half-Life 2 Roleplay => Archive => HL2RP Development[ARCHIVE] => Guides => Topic started by: Norwegian Soldier on April 24, 2011, 04:16:45 PM
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What do you mean by play to lose (PTL)?
PTL means doing /me'd fights and so on without rolls, you do not /roll to decide who wins, this is unrealistic and stupid.
How do you play to lose?
Let's use a scenario, two different ones, one with and one without PTL.
- Scenario one - No PTL
** CCA.C18.UNIFORM-DvL.324 runs into the alley.
** Jackson 'Dynamite' Boerson sees the DvL, and sneaks up on him from behind.
** CCA.C18.UNIFORM-DvL.324 notices the citizen.
** Jackson 'Dynamite' Boerson attempts to hit the DvL's face with a plank, knocking him out.
** Jackson 'Dynamite' Boerson has rolled 78 out of 100.
** CCA.C18.UNIFORM-DvL.324 has rolled 23 out of 100
** CCA.C18.UNIFORM-DvL.324 gets hit, and falls down, unconscious.
- Scenario two - PTL
** CCA.C18.UNIFORM-DvL.324 runs into the alley.
** Jackson 'Dynamite' Boerson sees the DvL, and sneaks up on him from behind.
** CCA.C18.UNIFORM-DvL.324 notices the citizen.
** Jackson 'Dynamite' Boerson attempts to hit the DvL's face with a plank, knocking him out.
** CCA.C18.UNIFORM-DvL.324 attempts to doge, but gets hit.
** CCA.C18.UNIFORM-DvL.324 steps backwards after getting hit, shaking his head.
** CCA.C18.UNIFORM-DvL.324 goes forwards, pulling his stunstick out
** Jackson 'Dynamite' Boerson drops his plank, and runs.
** CCA.C18.UNIFORM-DvL.324 radios in...
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As you can see in scenario two, the DvL did not have to fall down unconscious, he choose to get hit but becuse of his armor, he could also choose to avoid getting knocked out cold. In scenario one however, the DvL was suddenly hit, and had to roll. He lost, and had to get knocked unconscious, this did not lead to very much interesting roleplay as in scenario two.[/size]
How should you use PTL?
When you play to lose, the roleplay will become much more interesting and enjoyable, however - there are some factors to be taken into consideration
1) You can not be invincible - play to lose means you choose to lose. You do a /me about what happens to you but be fair!
2) take all everything into consideration - enviroment, armor etc... i'll make a small list below.
3) Choose an interesting action! - This is not obligatory, but this will of course make things more fun, even tough it's not in your favor. Letting the citizen run off will result in a chase, possibly alarms and stuff if he's important enough. If you force him to stay, you will simply hit him and detain... you just rejected some fun roleplay.
Some factors
These factors are to be taken into consideration:
The enviroment - Are you in a trapped in a corner, is it raining, is it slippery?
The enemy - What is the enemy carrying? Armor, augmentation, steel mask (stop punching CPs in the face!) Is it several enemies, do they carry weapons? (Remember to look closely on the enemy players description!)
Your state - Do you eat well, do you drink well, are you hungry, are you strong, are you fast, did you expect an attack, are you scared of the enemy, did something happend recently that may cause negative effects on you?
Common sense and other factors - All other factors and common sense must be taken into consideration to, and remember. If you willingly choose to lose the fight or a me, then you are an awesome-sauce person who is awesome and the other player thinks you are awesome becuse you are awesome. Refusing to lose the fight or the /me will make you look like an asshole and if the other player has a clear advantage he may contact an admin or demand /roll to be used... becuse you are an asshole.
Is this official?
No, this is not the "new" or "official" system, but it can and should be used.
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Make it official now, I can't agree with you more:
/roll, for the purposes of hl2rp, is INCREDIBLY dumb, and makes no sense, if I'm an augmented DVL, and a random, under-fed citizen goes to hit me, it's almost certain the citizen won't be able to do much, if any damage to me, but with /roll, they can basicly power game their way to punching me in the face.
RPers should be mature enough to work out who wins between them, even if its takes a bit of LOOCing, a script shouldn't RP for you...
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I fully Nyan- *Cough* Support this.
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Indeed. This should be made official. Of course, there's still the error of punchwhores.
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What do you mean by play to lose (PTL)?
PTL means doing /me'd fights and so on without rolls, you do not /roll to decide who wins, this is unrealistic and stupid.
How do you play to lose?
Let's use a scenario, two different ones, one with and one without PTL.
- Scenario one - No PTL
** CCA.C18.UNIFORM-DvL.324 runs into the alley.
** Jackson 'Dynamite' Boerson sees the DvL, and sneaks up on him from behind.
** CCA.C18.UNIFORM-DvL.324 notices the citizen.
** Jackson 'Dynamite' Boerson attempts to hit the DvL's face with a plank, knocking him out.
** Jackson 'Dynamite' Boerson has rolled 78 out of 100.
** CCA.C18.UNIFORM-DvL.324 has rolled 23 out of 100
** CCA.C18.UNIFORM-DvL.324 gets hit, and falls down, unconscious.
- Scenario two - PTL
** CCA.C18.UNIFORM-DvL.324 runs into the alley.
** Jackson 'Dynamite' Boerson sees the DvL, and sneaks up on him from behind.
** CCA.C18.UNIFORM-DvL.324 notices the citizen.
** Jackson 'Dynamite' Boerson attempts to hit the DvL's face with a plank, knocking him out.
** CCA.C18.UNIFORM-DvL.324 attempts to doge, but gets hit.
** CCA.C18.UNIFORM-DvL.324 steps backwards after getting hit, shaking his head.
** CCA.C18.UNIFORM-DvL.324 goes forwards, pulling his stunstick out
** Jackson 'Dynamite' Boerson drops his plank, and runs.
** CCA.C18.UNIFORM-DvL.324 radios in...
__
As you can see in scenario two, the DvL did not have to fall down unconscious, he choose to get hit but becuse of his armor, he could also choose to avoid getting knocked out cold. In scenario one however, the DvL was suddenly hit, and had to roll. He lost, and had to get knocked unconscious, this did not lead to very much interesting roleplay as in scenario two.[/size]
How should you use PTL?
When you play to lose, the roleplay will become much more interesting and enjoyable, however - there are some factors to be taken into consideration
1) You can not be invincible - play to lose means you choose to lose. You do a /me about what happens to you but be fair!
2) take all everything into consideration - enviroment, your awareness, your strenght, did the subject sneak up on you, does he wear armor etc...
3) Choose an interesting action! - This is not obligatory, but this will of course make things more fun, even tough it's not in your favor. Letting the citizen run off will result in a chase, possibly alarms and stuff if he's important enough. If you force him to stay, you will simply hit him and detain... you just rejected some fun roleplay.
Is this official?
No, this is not the "new" or "official" system, but it can and should be used.
NOTE: I am newb at guides, but you get the point?
I will agree with this, but the minges will not. I already had a problem with this, i tried it, and they did Play to Win instead (Bastards). But anyways, please promote this.
+support
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Added "Factors" section.
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YEEEES.
I mean, most rp situations like that are common sense. I mean, you cant really win agaisnt a SeC with a lot of augmentations etc or a fucking COTA can you,but people avoid it by rollplaying(bad pun).
I mean, I saw a good use of Roll one time, and that was some cool board game, even a DvL watched as he didnt know if it was contra or not,and there was a crowd watching.
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Another thing is: The citizens are malnourished. CPs are well fed and trained. Pretty obvious who would win in a one on one fight, unless the citizen has some sort of weapon (gun typically) and the element of surprise. Or just a gun if facing a recruit. (However, element of surprise would also be preferred unless you do an immediate fatal shot (They'll just use the radio and call backup))
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Maybe you should make it so RCTs get +10 on rolls and etc. I still like rolls, because it keeps you from arguing.
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Rolls = malnourished citizens beating trained and fed CPs in a 1 on 1 fight
That's not how it should be.
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Can this be moved to the 'Guides' section?
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Honestly, on other HL2RP servers we don't use /roll. /roll should be used in gambling in my opinon rather than something stupid as topic gives. Just saying I support the fact of using PTL rather than /roll.
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Honestly, on other HL2RP servers we don't use /roll. /roll should be used in gambling in my opinon rather than something stupid as topic gives. Just saying I support the fact of using PTL rather than /roll.
Thanks for the feedback, but maybe you should use green glow? xD
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We should just remove /roll, but most of our players aren't mature enough to work out between them who would win in a situation without using the script...
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I don't play, I will barely play. And I already know, this will fail.
Great idea and all, but there's talks about minges all over, they will be happy to change the;
- Scenario two - PTL
** CCA.C18.UNIFORM-DvL.324 runs into the alley.
** Jackson 'Dynamite' Boerson sees the DvL, and sneaks up on him from behind.
** CCA.C18.UNIFORM-DvL.324 notices the citizen.
** Jackson 'Dynamite' Boerson attempts to hit the DvL's face with a plank, knocking him out.
** CCA.C18.UNIFORM-DvL.324 attempts to doge, but gets hit.
** CCA.C18.UNIFORM-DvL.324 steps backwards after getting hit, shaking his head.
** CCA.C18.UNIFORM-DvL.324 goes forwards, pulling his stunstick out
** Jackson 'Dynamite' Boerson drops his plank, and runs.
** CCA.C18.UNIFORM-DvL.324 radios in...
To something more like;
** CCA.C18.UNIFORM-DvL.324 runs into the alley.
** Jackson 'Dynamite' Boerson sees the DvL, and sneaks up on him from behind.
** CCA.C18.UNIFORM-DvL.324 notices the citizen.
** Jackson 'Dynamite' Boerson hits the DvL's face with a plank, knocking him out.
** CCA.C18.UNIFORM-DvL.324 attempts to doge, but gets hit.
** Jackson 'Dynamite' Boerson takes a look on the unconscious DvL.
** Jackson 'Dynamite' Boerson starts to smile very confident.
** Jackson 'Dynamite' Boerson takes the DvL's equipment and runs.
They should get the weapons according to PTL, and they can do whatever they want now.
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REFINED!!!!!!!
***.*******.***.000 runs to in a CCH room.
A anti-citizen see that the CP runs into a room, and grabs hold a pipe near him.
He runs in the room jumping in the air hit the CP in the head and crashing him.
The anti-citizen rolls 1
The CP rolls 2
The pipe breaks but the CP is out cold from being crash and getting hit hard in the head.
The anti-citizen loots the body.
The anti-citizen rolls 60
The CP rolls 5
The anti-citizen have loot the body and found all the goods.
or
The anti-citizen rolls 60
The cp rolls 100
The anti-citizen only finds the stunstick and pistol with the clip in it.
As you can see It have PTL or Play To Lose with /roll, thus with this you can in-rice the "ROLEPLAY" with players.
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I died from your lack of grammar and spelling. Can you repost that in proper English please?
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Statua he use proper Engrish, come how you didt see?
JK JK JK JK JK
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Statua he use proper Engrish, come how you didt see?
JK JK JK JK JK
Statua, he made a joke that made no sense and seems to be postwhoring, don't you see?
jk jk jk NOT
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I have WARNED YOU MORE times then I can fucking count JOSH! Your fucking harrasment of me is getting out of hand! Quit it NOW!
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I died from your lack of grammar and spelling. Can you repost that in proper English please?
If you don't Like my English then fuck off.
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My apologies but how am I supposed to comprehend what the suggestion you have posted on this thread means. I would perfer if you would rather not tell me to "fuck off" and actually take my request into consideration. I was hoping for you to actually fix your post rather then get angry at me because I was curious as to what at actually meant.
K? Don't tell me to "fuck off" again. I actually thought you were either a: trolling or b: too lazy to properly type. If it's a language barrier, sorry but what else can I do? The majority of this community is English speaking and broken English is difficult to understand.
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My apologies but how am I supposed to comprehend what the suggestion you have posted on this thread means. I would perfer if you would rather not tell me to "fuck off" and actually take my request into consideration. I was hoping for you to actually fix your post rather then get angry at me because I was curious as to what at actually meant.
K? Don't tell me to "fuck off" again. I actually thought you were either a: trolling or b: too lazy to properly type. If it's a language barrier, sorry but what else can I do? The majority of this community is English speaking and broken English is difficult to understand.
Owned :o
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Hey guys..Calm down...This is only a game Mkay ?...Grab a beer and watch star wars and then come back.
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Statua, broken English is easy to learn.
Actually, you don't even have to learn it.
Your mind is trained in reading words, recognizing words.
I don't understand why you didn't get what he is trying to say, there is so much worse grammar.
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I had a nice fight yesterday, where the citizen actually let himself lose to my DvL, like he should have. I beat him to a pulp.
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Statua you p3wNeD him; I'm Italian so English isnt my first language, I still try though.
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I have refined my post, so you can read it, if it still not good for you then I'm am sorry, but my english sucks.
P.S. I hate when people say that my English sucks but I know it, but I'm am trying my hardest to do my best.
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I thought I replied this morning but I guess my crappy ISP broke the connection. Anyways what I said was I cba to decipher broken English when stressed which is what I was yesterday due to my ISP being a douche. I reread it this morning and understand most of it so here's what I think.
Rolling cannot make decisions like the human mind. It cant decide whether your character has the strength, the energy, or the will to fight back. It cant figure out how much fear or adrenaline is pumping through your characters body, only you can decide that. A good roleplayer will be able to decide that within five seconds. Rolling is semi-serious. We are strictly serious.
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Yea but a lot of people powergame and arguments, rollpay is easy just not fun.
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Yea but a lot of people powergame and arguments, rollpay is easy just not fun.
You powergame, and rollplaying is unrealistic.
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Yea but a lot of people powergame and arguments, rollpay is easy just not fun.
If you rollplay you powergame.
A citizen can take on an OTA unit. Nothing makes that fair
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Make official plox.
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Stickied and moved to 'Guides' board
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This is really good I used to use it all the time on the old server I played at and he is really right play to lose, make it enjoyable for the other players and if you are rping a fight make sure to get hit every now and then. It may not be the best for the character but it will create good RP to me anyways what do you think?
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** CCA.C18.UNIFORM-DvL.324 runs into the alley.
** Jackson 'Dynamite' Boerson sees the DvL, and sneaks up on him from behind.
** CCA.C18.UNIFORM-DvL.324 notices the citizen.
** Jackson 'Dynamite' Boerson attempts to hit the DvL's face with a plank, knocking him out.
** CCA.C18.UNIFORM-DvL.324 attempts to doge, but gets hit.
** CCA.C18.UNIFORM-DvL.324 steps backwards after getting hit, shaking his head.
** CCA.C18.UNIFORM-DvL.324 goes forwards, pulling his stunstick out
** Jackson 'Dynamite' Boerson drops his plank, and runs.
** CCA.C18.UNIFORM-DvL.324 radios in...
More like...
** CCA.C18.UNIFORM-DvL.324 runs into the alley.
** Jackson 'Dynamite' Boerson sees the DvL, and sneaks up on him from behind.
** CCA.C18.UNIFORM-DvL.324 notices the citizen.
** Jackson 'Dynamite' Boerson attempts to hit the DvL's face with a plank, knocking him out.
** CCA.C18.UNIFORM-DvL.324 raises his arm in an "L" block, the plank breaking in half across it
Jackson 'Dynamite' Boerson says: "... Oh sh-"
** CCA.C18.UNIFORM-DvL.324 uses death stare
** Jackson 'Dynamite' Boerson's mind explodes
In all seriousness, yes, this is a very good guide and I will be sure to have it in my bookmarks to link to people.
However, I believe if you're tied, some powergaming may be appropriate. Because you cannot defend yourself, "attempting" to do something on a tied person will just break the flow a bit, as 99 times out of 100 they would respond with "/me gets hit". Unless you're about to kill said tied person.
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This should be added to the guides list on the server.
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I like this except for the fact that people will change their physdesc to something unrealistic, sch as `Super strong, extremely fast runner`Etc and not have any flaws to avoid having to ever comprimise and lose.
Otherwise, This is good. Better then /roll anyways.
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I never thought of playing to lose before. I might start doing that because it seems like every time I /roll I either get a 1, 12, or 6. This also seems like a cool way to spice up the rp.
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Thanks for the guide! :D I didnt even know what PTL was but this guide explains it well! thanks for helpin out a noob :3
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Ok, having read the entire thread, I think you guys make some good points for PTL, but there are a couple of things I want to address. In a situation where it's Citizen on Citizen(which has already happened to me twice in my two weeks here) with basically no advantages for either side, how do you determine who wins? It seems to me that if you are nothing PTLing then you're both going to lose. Another thing I'm curious about is the CP v Citizen fight that everyone's so up in arms about. Though I understand that a CP is better fed and has some armor. It seems like a citizen would be more determined to win or escape in a fight, while the CP has nothing to lose. If you add the fact that a citizen could easily find a brick laying about it seems a bit more even. Now I understand the ridiculousness of a citizen "/me hits the CP in the face with a plank and knocks him unconscious." and then rolling better than the CP. I think that it would be better to have the person being hit determine the effect of the hit.
Eg.
C: Citizen swings the plank as hard as he can at the CP's head.
U: The CP attempts to duck underneath the plank.
C: Citizen rolls 60 out of 100
U: The CP rolls 50 out of 100
U: The plank connects with the CP's head, hitting his faceplate and temporarily stunning him.
--Since the CP has better knowledge of the durability of his armor, he understands that a plank to the face isn't enough to fully incapacitate him. But enough to stun him for a bit. So by playing to lose he knows that if he has just been stunned, he wouldn't be able to strike back immediately.
U:[LOOC] Ok, since I just got stunned you'd have another chance to hit me or run or something.
C:[LOOC] If I ran would your character be able to chase me?
U:[LOOC] Probably not.
C: The citizen turns away from the stunned CP and sprints down the alley.
I'll go ahead and acknowledge that I'm not the best RP'er, but I thought it was a good idea and wanted to see what you guys think.
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Although the rool system is dumb, it gives people a chance to actually win. It is fair, I should say.
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Make it official now, I can't agree with you more:
/roll, for the purposes of hl2rp, is INCREDIBLY dumb, and makes no sense, if I'm an augmented DVL, and a random, under-fed citizen goes to hit me, it's almost certain the citizen won't be able to do much, if any damage to me, but with /roll, they can basicly power game their way to punching me in the face.
RPers should be mature enough to work out who wins between them, even if its takes a bit of LOOCing, a script shouldn't RP for you...
Regardless of augmentation, still take momentum into effect, and if you were to throw a punch and someone were to counter by deflecting, or kneeing you in the stomach, you need to Roleplay just as realistically, just because your DvL, doesn't mean your invincible either, it just means your more durable, and stronger, doesn't mean you can take hits and act like nothing happened, plus your not fully augmented as well, meaning you have weak spots. Refer to my combat roleplay guide for more information as I'll be updated it soon.
http://www.catalyst-gaming.net/index.php?topic=9563.0
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Oh! I see now, thanks these guides help a bunch! ;D
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Eg.
C: Citizen swings the plank as hard as he can at the CP's head.
U: The CP attempts to duck underneath the plank.
C: Citizen rolls 60 out of 100
U: The CP rolls 50 out of 100
U: The plank connects with the CP's head, hitting his faceplate and temporarily stunning him.
--Since the CP has better knowledge of the durability of his armor, he understands that a plank to the face isn't enough to fully incapacitate him. But enough to stun him for a bit. So by playing to lose he knows that if he has just been stunned, he wouldn't be able to strike back immediately.
U:[LOOC] Ok, since I just got stunned you'd have another chance to hit me or run or something.
C:[LOOC] If I ran would your character be able to chase me?
U:[LOOC] Probably not.
C: The citizen turns away from the stunned CP and sprints down the alley.
While this is a perfectly valid use of rolling with PTL, in my opinion, it's still not as "efficient" as a purely /me'd fight.
Comparing two fights I had recently on another HL2RP server:
I was cornered in some apartments after being chased by my friend, a CP unit on said server. We had a fight using /roll that looked a little something like this:
*Citizen throws a punch at CP's chest.
*CP tries to dodge.
*Citizen rolls 69.
*CP rolls 30.
*CP gets hit, then swings stunstick at Citizen.
*Citizen tries to dodge left.
*Citizen rolls 20.
*CP rolls 72.
*Citizen gets hit and stumbles back...
Now, don't get me wrong -- it was still fun. But it kinda felt like a bad RPG, and not nearly as enjoyable as the following fight, when backup showed up:
*Citizen throws a punch at the side of Recruit's head.
*Recruit steps back and the blow glances off his helmet. Recruit retaliates by bringing his stunstick down on Citizen's shoulder.
*Citizen takes the hit, going down on one knee. He quickly stands up, throwing another punch at the Recruit's chest.
*Recruit is hit and stumbles back before stepping forward again...
Roleplay-wise, the same amount of action is going on, but it was much less choppy and felt more engaging. It helped that we were both willing to take hits instead of just dealing them out.
Hypothetically speaking, someone could only dish out hits (keeping with the fight scenario) but if the other person is willing to go with it, it can still be enjoyable.
Anyway...
Thanks to the OP for giving an in-depth description of PTL. More people should use it! :D
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Thanks for the guide mann, I am doing heaps of looking up too be better at CCA. I am trying too get a cca toon, u see.
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Thank you, I really never got P2L. Now I get it and my RP should be more fun! Great Guide.