Backup Sections => Character Ban/PK Appeals => Applications and appeals => 
Half-Life 2 Roleplay => Archive => HL2RP Development[ARCHIVE] => Denied PK Appeals => Topic started by: The Doctor, RIP Juggernaut on March 11, 2013, 09:55:13 AM Backup Sections => Character Ban/PK Appeals => Applications and appeals => Half-Life 2 Roleplay => Archive => HL2RP Development[ARCHIVE] => Denied PK Appeals => Topic started by: The Doctor, RIP Juggernaut on March 11, 2013, 09:55:13 AMYou were ambushed and he offered you options, i am part of kronos group, an advisor and you have been a target for quite some time, i knpw its hard to let go but you srsly need tooYou weren't part of the ambush, please stay out of it. And I'm not "Letting go" because of the reasons I stated which are perfectly legitment and has proof to back them up. Kronos didn't "Offer" me anything Jonco was the one that decided I was going to get NLR'd.
So wait. This was planned OOCly? If it was planned OOCly, that means its a scripted RP. You're supposed to follow through with a scripted RP if you want to do that. Otherwise, its just a huge thing of metagame and he said she said.
So wait. This was planned OOCly? If it was planned OOCly, that means its a scripted RP. You're supposed to follow through with a scripted RP if you want to do that. Otherwise, its just a huge thing of metagame and he said she said.
This was planned ICly as part of our group.
So let me get this straight.
Kronos and Jugger talked in steam chat and agreed in steam chat to form an alliance. Jugger and Elions went ICly to the location (metagame unless scripted RP was planned) and Kronos basically said "no I lied" and killed both Elions and Juggernaut?
I feel like I'm missing something from Kronos' side. Someone get him to post here.
Yes. We did. Jonco already asked about it.So let me get this straight.
Kronos and Jugger talked in steam chat and agreed in steam chat to form an alliance. Jugger and Elions went ICly to the location (metagame unless scripted RP was planned) and Kronos basically said "no I lied" and killed both Elions and Juggernaut?
I feel like I'm missing something from Kronos' side. Someone get him to post here.
No, they never spoke in Steam Chat about making a group prior to this.
It kind of is. It prooves he was fooled to go in there, it prooves there was intended malice in fooling him like that, and it's more than obvious that it shows the RP in general was just invalid by the point the whole thing turned around.
It kind of is. It prooves he was fooled to go in there, it prooves there was intended malice in fooling him like that, and it's more than obvious that it shows the RP in general was just invalid by the point the whole thing turned around.
So what? That's the point I'm trying to get across, he was fooled and then got a PK from it, so what? It was IC, there's no reason to unPK anyone
The fooling wasn't IC however, It was OOC.It kind of is. It prooves he was fooled to go in there, it prooves there was intended malice in fooling him like that, and it's more than obvious that it shows the RP in general was just invalid by the point the whole thing turned around.
So what? That's the point I'm trying to get across, he was fooled and then got a PK from it, so what? It was IC, there's no reason to unPK anyone
The fooling wasn't IC however, It was OOC.It kind of is. It prooves he was fooled to go in there, it prooves there was intended malice in fooling him like that, and it's more than obvious that it shows the RP in general was just invalid by the point the whole thing turned around.
So what? That's the point I'm trying to get across, he was fooled and then got a PK from it, so what? It was IC, there's no reason to unPK anyone
... Really? Had i done that to anyone you would be on my ass in a second trying to ban me permanently from the server.
This entire appeal is based on the assumption that it had OOC reasons, when it didn't at all.
The fooling wasn't IC however, It was OOC.
Metagaming would be taking what was said in the steam chat and using it in a way that would give me an advantage(Like I don't know... Planning an ambush?). Instead I was trying to help outlands out as a whole but I got killed for it(Which it was NLR then, IDK why it got bumped to PK.).The fooling wasn't IC however, It was OOC.It kind of is. It prooves he was fooled to go in there, it prooves there was intended malice in fooling him like that, and it's more than obvious that it shows the RP in general was just invalid by the point the whole thing turned around.
So what? That's the point I'm trying to get across, he was fooled and then got a PK from it, so what? It was IC, there's no reason to unPK anyone
So you metagamed and then got PKd from it?
But as you said over TS with me and several others (names will not be included to prevent a spread of this drama) your replies were exagerrated. This is an example. You guys need to calm down and remain loosely attached to your characters. I understand more than anyone how you feel about loosing a character you had for years. So don't assume that I don't know how you feel just because i've caused that feeeling to eruput.
Provide us of logs to show how on earth I fooled you by me saying "Ill see."
6:11 PM - Titan of the Dinosaurs: Why?
6:12 PM - Titan of the Dinosaurs: You and I had agreed on an Alliance in steam chat yes?
Sunday, March 10, 2013
10:51 PM - Titan of the Dinosaurs: Thanks
Unfortunatley I cannot access the conversation as it is too old and has been moved up by steam. If you have any suggestions on how I can, it would be helpful.
Get the fuck over it and move on like the rest of us.
Metagaming would be taking what was said in the steam chat and using it in a way that would give me an advantage(Like I don't know... Planning an ambush?). Instead I was trying to help outlands out as a whole but I got killed for it(Which it was NLR then, IDK why it got bumped to PK.).The fooling wasn't IC however, It was OOC.It kind of is. It prooves he was fooled to go in there, it prooves there was intended malice in fooling him like that, and it's more than obvious that it shows the RP in general was just invalid by the point the whole thing turned around.
So what? That's the point I'm trying to get across, he was fooled and then got a PK from it, so what? It was IC, there's no reason to unPK anyone
So you metagamed and then got PKd from it?
You said "We'll meet", which I was under the impression we were going to work together a bit before we do this so its not a sudden leap.
I have no idea why it was jumped from an NLR to a PK.
We would.. If this was in proper RP, not in mean spirits, and certainely didn't have the undertones of malice that it has shown thus far. We have reasons to appeal and we've put them right here for you all to see. If you did not want your plan to be questioned, you should not have used these tactics. Plain and simple.
QuoteProvide us of logs to show how on earth I fooled you by me saying "Ill see."
6:11 PM - Titan of the Dinosaurs: Why?
6:12 PM - Titan of the Dinosaurs: You and I had agreed on an Alliance in steam chat yes?
Sunday, March 10, 2013
10:51 PM - Titan of the Dinosaurs: Thanks
Unfortunatley I cannot access the conversation as it is too old and has been moved up by steam. If you have any suggestions on how I can, it would be helpful.
This has a huge gap between the lines, this is... worrying to say the least. While i can see the timestamp there it's simply not enough. Not to mention it seems much too convenient that you cannot access it anymore.
QuoteProvide us of logs to show how on earth I fooled you by me saying "Ill see."
6:11 PM - Titan of the Dinosaurs: Why?
6:12 PM - Titan of the Dinosaurs: You and I had agreed on an Alliance in steam chat yes?
Sunday, March 10, 2013
10:51 PM - Titan of the Dinosaurs: Thanks
Unfortunatley I cannot access the conversation as it is too old and has been moved up by steam. If you have any suggestions on how I can, it would be helpful.
This has a huge gap between the lines, this is... worrying to say the least. While i can see the timestamp there it's simply not enough. Not to mention it seems much too convenient that you cannot access it anymore.
Does Titan have the logs from that chat?
Metagaming would be taking what was said in the steam chat and using it in a way that would give me an advantage(Like I don't know... Planning an ambush?). Instead I was trying to help outlands out as a whole but I got killed for it(Which it was NLR then, IDK why it got bumped to PK.).The fooling wasn't IC however, It was OOC.It kind of is. It prooves he was fooled to go in there, it prooves there was intended malice in fooling him like that, and it's more than obvious that it shows the RP in general was just invalid by the point the whole thing turned around.
So what? That's the point I'm trying to get across, he was fooled and then got a PK from it, so what? It was IC, there's no reason to unPK anyone
So you metagamed and then got PKd from it?
You said "We'll meet", which I was under the impression we were going to work together a bit before we do this so its not a sudden leap.
I have no idea why it was jumped from an NLR to a PK.
So let me get this straight.
Kronos and Jugger talked in steam chat and agreed in steam chat to form an alliance. Jugger and Elions went ICly to the location (metagame unless scripted RP was planned) and Kronos basically said "no I lied" and killed both Elions and Juggernaut?
I feel like I'm missing something from Kronos' side. Someone get him to post here.
No, they never spoke in Steam Chat about making a group prior to this.
Gonna just point that out and the fact that Pi was also arguing it over TS rather convincingly, going as far as putting words in my mouth.
You talked to me about an Alliance between all the groups in the OL over steam yes.
Your tactics also had you getting shot at by weapons known for their penetration/over penetration with out RPing that aspect of it.
You talked to me about an Alliance between all the groups in the OL over steam yes.And the fact that I said that I talked to you over steam about an Alliance, doesn't mean I agreed to it.
Your tactics also had you getting shot at by weapons known for their penetration/over penetration with out RPing that aspect of it.So let me get this straight.
Kronos and Jugger talked in steam chat and agreed in steam chat to form an alliance. Jugger and Elions went ICly to the location (metagame unless scripted RP was planned) and Kronos basically said "no I lied" and killed both Elions and Juggernaut?
I feel like I'm missing something from Kronos' side. Someone get him to post here.
No, they never spoke in Steam Chat about making a group prior to this.Gonna just point that out and the fact that Pi was also arguing it over TS rather convincingly, going as far as putting words in my mouth.
You talked to me about an Alliance between all the groups in the OL over steam yes.
The amount of damage taken doesn't factor in between a PK and a TK. A TK isn't like getting a injury and having to rest for a while(Like when Matt lost his leg.) its more of an extended NLR so there's no way for you to get involved with any direct fallout role play.
The gap in between the chat was empty due to no reply or anything. Nothing was said, When I said thanks that was when I believe I found out about the PK.
The point of that was that Pi had attacked me like a dog over that in TS, when you just confirmed it yourself.
And what does that have to do with this appeal?
I can't provide those logs as they were over my mobile, BUT I think Frog still has them and can give them to you.
That maybe ya'll should get your facts straight before you accuse someone of being a lier.
I can't see how the amount of damage would count for a PK. As for the TK Keiji said that your group doesn't go for PK's, The OOC drama was mainly started /due to the PK/ I would have left this alone and just moved on, but the fact that it became a PK almost out of no where makes me want both answers and it undone. I really /really/ enjoying playing the Old man.
You confirmed that the chat happened. And Pi it's not arguing when you're putting words in my mouth and accusing me of being something I'm not.
Unless you cleared the chat yourself, Steam Mobile should have the full log (With timestamps if i remember correctly) Meaning that if you take the time you can post the logs in their entirety. Either way even if you did not directly state that you were going to form an alliance you hinted Heavily at it, which just continues on with the point
That maybe ya'll should get your facts straight before you accuse someone of being a lier.
I can't see how the amount of damage would count for a PK. As for the TK Keiji said that your group doesn't go for PK's
. I really /really/ enjoying playing the Old man.
The OOC drama was mainly started /due to the PK/ I would have left this alone and just moved on, but the fact that it became a PK almost out of no where makes me want both answers and it undone.
You confirmed that the chat happened. And Pi it's not arguing when you're putting words in my mouth and accusing me of being something I'm not.
I didn't read every single post in this down to the letter, but one thing I can see that is a problem here is the OOC aspect. There shouldn't have been any steam chats regarding the issue at all. Neither Jugger nor Kronos should have ever talked about meeting IC to discuss a specific subject. Talking over steam to ask someone to get on to speak with with regarding an issue is one thing, but to plan something in steam and then use that information ICly is metagaming and just leads to situations like this.
It was decided amongst the SA's (currently just Khub and I) that the two admins involved in the RP, Jonco and Sexy Frog would decide what was appropriate for Old Man. Its up to them to decide if any discrepancies in this RP are present and if there are truly any issues. They both decided for a PK on Old Man.
Now why didn't I mention Eli above? Because the main issue is really with Old Man, but since Eli was allegedly in the wrong place at the wrong time, he died as well and it was part of the conditions that if Old Man got PK'd, Eli would have to be as well because its only fair. Alternatively, if this appeal is accepted, both character's will be unpk'd.
Jonco told me that PKing Matt and Eli wasn't his chose?
I cannot post them into the website as the app for the android costs money that I really do not feel like spending. And I said sexy frog can provide you with one. Hinting at it doesn't mean I said yes and we should meet. Does it? I met him yes, but the meeting topic nor the location was planned over Steam Chat. He just literally brought it up to me and in actualitly, I just shoved it off.
You were killed brutally for supplies. I don't see how that would be unfair. How do I know you have supplies? Laurence ICly speculated that you did. Laurence also hates controlling people. From his obersvations of you, he could tell that you were a powerful person. Also you threatened his prized vortigaunt. You indirectly piled on reasons for your death.
I really /really/ enjoyed playing my unit, Turious, Giovanni, and William Dicardi.
2:35 PM - Jonco: old man keeps
2:35 PM - Jonco: arguing over it
2:35 PM - Jonco: eli can go free but
2:35 PM - Airborne1st: We can't let one go free
2:35 PM - Jonco: oh
2:35 PM - Jonco: well
2:36 PM - Jonco: Old man died before and
2:36 PM - Airborne1st: those are the current conditions
2:36 PM - Jonco: I never knew that
2:36 PM - Jonco: so i didnt pk him
2:36 PM - Airborne1st: yeah he's NLR'd already
2:36 PM - Airborne1st: alright
2:36 PM - Airborne1st: its decided then
Also Kronos, you /knew/ that I didn't know you brushed it off or decided not to do it. Yet you didn't tell me or anything. And knowing the knowledge you /KNEW/ I would have followed you expecting/believing it was part of what we had talked about.
Also Kronos, you /knew/ that I didn't know you brushed it off or decided not to do it. Yet you didn't tell me or anything. And knowing the knowledge you /KNEW/ I would have followed you expecting/believing it was part of what we had talked about.Whether or not he lied about some meeting or whatever shit, doesn't matter. By you acting upon OOC information, you metagamed. Whether or not he lied, it's still metagaming. These are the consequences. It's all rather plain and simple.
Also Kronos, you /knew/ that I didn't know you brushed it off or decided not to do it. Yet you didn't tell me or anything. And knowing the knowledge you /KNEW/ I would have followed you expecting/believing it was part of what we had talked about.
If that were the case, then a lot of people would be comitting metagame. I wouldn't just go up and say "I don't care about this. Its stupid." I didn't tell you just to be nice really. I didn't know what you would do really. I can't read your mind. The fact that you're assuming I knew these things is inaccurate.
... The steam app is free. So is taking screenshots from any commercial cellphone. I don't see why you can't post them. Hinting at it in a heavy manner is a very common way to fool someone into something. I'd bloody know, i've had to deal with this kind of nonsense since my days as a TF2 admin.
Its not really assuming or that big of a leap. There hasn't really been a case like then and you could have just said "No" say "I'll think about it" is so vague that there are so many ways to perceive it. The fact that you didn't directly say "No" and said "I'll think about it" and then follow it up with this seeing how you were planning this apparently for a month and then following it up with that? You can't say that you didn't know that I would have assumed that.Also Kronos, you /knew/ that I didn't know you brushed it off or decided not to do it. Yet you didn't tell me or anything. And knowing the knowledge you /KNEW/ I would have followed you expecting/believing it was part of what we had talked about.
If that were the case, then a lot of people would be comitting metagame. I wouldn't just go up and say "I don't care about this. Its stupid." I didn't tell you just to be nice really. I didn't know what you would do really. I can't read your mind. The fact that you're assuming I knew these things is inaccurate.
Its not really assuming or that big of a leap. There hasn't really been a case like then and you could have just said "No" say "I'll think about it" is so vague that there are so many ways to perceive it. The fact that you didn't directly say "No" and said "I'll think about it" and then follow it up with this seeing how you were planning this apparently for a month and then following it up with that? You can't say that you didn't know that I would have assumed that.
How could we have known that Kronos would turn around like this all of a sudden?
How could we have known that we were going to be the target of an abuse of the rules?
Any admin with half a brain would realise the problem in this situation. Anyone with a conscience wouldn't let it happen just like that.
I dont exactly agree with you guys taking those items considering their value but thats for another discussion. You're right, a TK wouldnt make much sense considering the items stolen. But neither does stealing said items. SO you created a bit of a controversy here.
Lifting my decision on denied to neutral.
I thought you killed him because he was gonna bring OTA or something like that. You killed him for the reason "to steal his items"?
I thought you killed him because he was gonna bring OTA or something like that. You killed him for the reason "to steal his items"?And hypothetically, if the situation was well roleplayed, then the motive doesn't matter. A well-roleplayed, voluntary roleplay situation can warrant a PK if death occurs during it. And it is voluntary because, for whatever OOC reasons whether he was lied to or not, Juggernaut decided to go into that situation. Voluntarily. Once you enter a roleplay situation like that voluntarily, the results of the situation are the consequences of your voluntary involvement.
I did not metagame. And I know I did not metagame.
I really hate conflict OOCly, so that's all I wish to say. I'll just leave it up to admins. This is getting too much for me to handle, due to the same accusations being repeated, but only being worded differently.
Are you supposed to know what I plan to do ICly?
You're not a victim man. Please stop acting like one.
This is getting stupid and I just really want you to accept that Old Man is pk'd. I've lost characters that I held close to and I also thought they were for bullshit reasons. But in time you will realize how silly it was to get upset about it.
but they were Pk'd due to the fact that we can't just forget all that occured on that RP session
I don't understand how stealing items is contraverisal, as one of the main reasons he was killed was for supplies. And may I clarify that it was not the only reason, but one of the reasons he was killed. It doesn't take a long time to notice what Matt has, and it can take an IC assumption to know what he has on him. I mean a guy with Kevlar? And you'd expect him to only have a knife? Back in my backstory for Laurence, he knows that people with kevlar usually mean people with weapons, and he needed more weapons.
You lied, you misdirected us, you shot us down for no apparent reason other than "supplies" which is not something that's a problem in outlands and misdirected us purposely so we'd break character and have a shot at us. Call me whatever you like, but it'll have to be synonymous to victim.
This isn't simply about the PK, it's about you getting away with abusing the rules and misdirecting honest players to get what you want. From day one of this incident you've changed your story more times than some people change shirts, you've used more circular logic than bloody nuns in catholic school and you've gone out of your way to cloud the facts. The metagame many talk about started with you, and ended with you.
Greed
You yourself have stated multiple times that you cannot trust the people in the very group, so why would you go out of your way to give them more shit? you already don't trust them, you do not need them having more firepower to kill you. The influence he had was well isolated to one small part of the map, leaving gigantic parts of the map for you to explore, gain influence over, even seize.
Your vortigaunt is literally eating humans... Why the hell do you trust him?
And finally, the hostility could easily come from anyone. I'd dare say even you have more to worry about hostility wise from the other characters in your little group, which you've said over and over on TS and other means that you do not trust and will eventually part away from in an event you people already have planned.
3.)Threatened our vortigaunt
Your vortigaunt is corrupt and doesnt follow its race. Does oit even have auths to be that way?
3.)Threatened our vortigaunt
Your vortigaunt is corrupt and doesnt follow its race. Does oit even have auths to be that way?
I was not aware that a character needed an authorization to have a different personality other than the normal run of the mill protect and cooperate with humanity Vortigaunt. Please, point out this rule or requirement. I am genuinely interested as to where this is, as I have never seen it before.
1.) Had resources the group needed.
Your group already has firepower and pretty much is auth'd a vehicle. What more did you need?
2.)Had too much of an ifluencial grip on the Inn that Laurence visited.
The inn is an official unownable passive RP refugee sanctuary. Leave it alone.
3.)Threatened our vortigaunt
Your vortigaunt is corrupt and doesnt follow its race. Does oit even have auths to be that way?
4.)Proved to be hostile towards those who harm others.
So? Did he directly attack you? I don't think that was mentioned.
The group itself was already quite armed as we could both see during the attack itself. All of you had weapons in some form or another (Except for misty if i remember correctly). Weapons which were not small either mind you. The extra weapons from oldman and skyler are overkill to say the very least.
We're not trying to halt your RP because it's sacred ground, but because clearly there's more to this than simply rp, bordering greed for items and what clearly is malice against certain players. Nobody owns outlands but it's not a chaotic mess either. Agreements are made, organizations exist, and these can't simply be overriden by ooc means to fool people into a trap.
A majority does not mean they're right. If you were stuck on an island with two lunatics, and they voted to cook you slowly with a roast-side of coconut, would you agree with it and call it an excellent idea?.
The group itself was already quite armed as we could both see during the attack itself. All of you had weapons in some form or another (Except for misty if i remember correctly). Weapons which were not small either mind you. The extra weapons from oldman and skyler are overkill to say the very least.
We're not trying to halt your RP because it's sacred ground, but because clearly there's more to this than simply rp, bordering greed for items and what clearly is malice against certain players. Nobody owns outlands but it's not a chaotic mess either. Agreements are made, organizations exist, and these can't simply be overriden by ooc means to fool people into a trap.
A majority does not mean they're right. If you were stuck on an island with two lunatics, and they voted to cook you slowly with a roast-side of coconut, would you agree with it and call it an excellent idea?.
We're not trying to halt your RP because it's sacred ground, but because clearly there's more to this than simply rp, bordering greed for items and what clearly is malice against certain players. Nobody owns outlands but it's not a chaotic mess either. Agreements are made, organizations exist, and these can't simply be overriden by ooc means to fool people into a trap.
A majority does not mean they're right. If you were stuck on an island with two lunatics, and they voted to cook you slowly with a roast-side of coconut, would you agree with it and call it an excellent idea?.
And once again i reiterate, that the means by which this PK was accomplished were shoddy at best. The admins in charge acted in a way that demands revision due to their involvement in the group that "progressed" through this, the OOC means by which the meet was set up in the first place, and even ignoring how an alien sides with an ex-gang member that didn't even know about vortigaunts beforehand could work together properly it still doesn't work or feel right.
I really dont know who to vouch for here.
One side of me says deny the appeal. The RP scenario was played out in depth and SA's should have good judgement of things so there's no reason to unpk them. The players properly played through the scenario. But did anyone decide to check if any of the members were auth'd for a buff? Regardless, that was never pointed out and Kronos won fair and square.
Another side says to unpk and void the situation as I really dont want items which were obtained through authorizations to other people who are otherwise unauthorized to use said items. The fact they killed 2 key outlanders simply for their stuff also adds to this.
So I don't know what to choose from without anyone being butthurt.
And sexy, you're right but really, have you seen any hostile vorts in HL2? They talk to eachother with vortessence and wouldnt let this happen. How did your vort break free from the vortessence? If so, wouldnt that make him lose his abilities as a vort? I know it was never brought up but now that theres a problem, there needs to be legit reasoning behind it. This is why auths were created in the first place...
Another side says to unpk and void the situation as I really dont want items which were obtained through authorizations to other people who are otherwise unauthorized to use said items. The fact they killed 2 key outlanders simply for their stuff also adds to this.
And sexy, you're right but really, have you seen any hostile vorts in HL2? They talk to eachother with vortessence and wouldnt let this happen. How did your vort break free from the vortessence? If so, wouldnt that make him lose his abilities as a vort? I know it was never brought up but now that theres a problem, there needs to be legit reasoning behind it. This is why auths were created in the first place...
And sexy, you're right but really, have you seen any hostile vorts in HL2? They talk to eachother with vortessence and wouldnt let this happen. How did your vort break free from the vortessence? If so, wouldnt that make him lose his abilities as a vort? I know it was never brought up but now that theres a problem, there needs to be legit reasoning behind it. This is why auths were created in the first place...
What are you even talking about? Vortessence is the natural life energy that the Vortigaunts believe bind ALL life together, it's not a shackle that you can break away from. I don't see why a personality/mind set would cause him to not be able to manipulate something that are gifted to Vortigaunts by birth right. Not only that, but you make it seem like Vortigaunts were just lolintroduced in HL2. They /were/ in HL1, bro. If you look in HL1 they were brutally murdering humans. You can say; oh sure, but that was because they were enslaved by Nihlanth but who are you to dictate their emotions? Gordon Freeman as well as the Security Guard/Military Personnel in Black Mesa killed Vortigaunts in front of other Vortigaunts. For all you know, that was a brother, a friend, a mother. Kin all the same. You mean to tell me that that wouldn't cause resentment and hatred to fester in the back of one's mind like a rotting corpse?