Catalyst Gaming
General => General Discussion => Social Discussion => Topic started by: Journeyman H. [UK] on March 29, 2012, 04:28:08 PM
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It has come to my attention, that the American citizens could very well be living in fear.
Based on the video recordings, namely this; (Text is below the video as well on my views.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urbtbvG0Fhk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTdbTIE8lrU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zV9uZ00bqD8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izyC_TaVh8M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAYcH9oncvE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaD6s_M4AqY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpPABLW6F_A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHiKUFYCjV4
(Are you fucking joking?)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ed8O7b0TmF4
(Know that the videos are from someone who claims to be anonymous, however the footage contained in the video is real)
I feel that the world only seems to control us through the use of fear.
They make you feel that you're safe guarded by a fine, powerful, and professional military service, with the police to serve and protect the innocent citizens of the U.S of A, and show you who the villains are, and who are the noble using the mainstream media
But do you wonder, is your country making you feel truly safe?
Giving you liberty and rights to allow you to show what you believe in?
Do you feel that the government and the law enforcement are doing a good job in safeguarding you from the evil?
Do you believe that trading liberty for "Security" (Yeah, right) is the right choice for us as humans?
Share your thoughts, but more importantly, question the authority.
Edit:
Added another video, even though it's George Bush, his words have given us the wrong mentality on how we should see the world, his words are detrimental to the people.
Another added, Iran is a state of threat (Yes old but still), building military bases near and around Iran and then claiming all the atrocities that they have done. Even though the U.S. are just as guilty in what they are (still) doing.
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(in this reply, I will only discuss the last video)
WAR IS WAR. For hundreds of years there has been war. Deal.
Was the invasion of Iraq a good thing? No. I dis agree with that, however, the first war in Iraq was a good thing. We should have focused all of our current attention on Afghanistan "You attack our country for no reason" Well you know what, fight the Terrorists whim killed 3000 of our civilians in one day. Then we'll talk. And, guess what? 911 was the first day of school AND a Jewish holiday. If it were not, there would be atleast triple the casualties.
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(in this reply, I will only discuss the last video)
WAR IS WAR. For hundreds of years there has been war. Deal.
Was the invasion of Iraq a good thing? No. I dis agree with that, however, the first war in Iraq was a good thing. We should have focused all of our current attention on Afghanistan "You attack our country for no reason" Well you know what, fight the Terrorists whim killed 3000 of our civilians in one day. Then we'll talk. And, guess what? 911 was the first day of school AND a Jewish holiday. If it were not, there would be atleast triple the casualties.
Nobody is a terrorist. For all i know America can be the biggest "Terrorist" to people right now. Who ARE the terrorists? What were WE doing in Iran? The wars we had recently, just been invaded, and we have military bases inside their country and it's surrounding other countries, such as Iran. The Americans and NATO forces have done nothing but spread fear to the country, by bombing them, we have caused more casualties to the Iraqi's than the terrorists have ever done.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s720x720/426500_396973586994862_1847278441_n.jpg)
I has friends die in 9/11, but I'm not going to be manipulated be culture on who did it. I'm pretty sure Iraq is pissed that we went to they're country in the 1980's, then we sent a bunch of bombs to Baghdad.
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Wut? We've never attacked Iran, nor do we have bases there. Lol, where do you get your info from?
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Journeyman you make some good point but you seem to be going on a bit now. You keep suggesting that our society is flawed, the way we work is dun goofed and the government is out to get us. It's not all that bad in all fairness :D
Are we safe? Yeah, kinda. In comparison that is, lets wonder down History lane shall we? 70AD the Roman are currently siegeing the great city of Jerusalem, confined within its walls our hundreds of thousands of people who are on the verge of starvation. The city has gone to crap and there are 3 "tribes" as it were running amok killing any they come across. If you lock your door at night people will come in and kill you, just because they think you are hiding something and if you aren't? Well they will kill you anyway for lying to them. It's not long for these people till the walls come crashing down and the Romans charge in slaughtering all of them. This is a society that is unsafe and full of fear.
Germany 1939. You are a Jewish man but you are not "Human". You are nothing under the reign of the Nazis, you are pitiful scum waiting to be squished out of existence. If you even stand up to show your face, odds are you will be killed, tortured or forced into labour. I don't think I have to go into the details. If you are a German who doesn’t agree with Hitler’s policies, you will be beaten and thrown out of society, most likely to a forced labour camp etc. This is a society that is unsafe and full of fear.
Rwanda 1994. Almost every other person you know who was a Tutsi is dead. You hide in fear for your life because at any moment you could be killed brutally and without any remorse. Your life is coming to a short and bitter end; it has fallen apart around you. This is a society that is unsafe and full of fear.
More examples in modern-day? Almost every other 3rd country, there are so many orphaned children who have nothing. So many people who are dying from poor medical treatments and have nothing left. They live in societies of fear.
How do we live? We, we live like Kings. You keep going on about how our system is broken and now how the "man" is trying to attack us. No, this is not the case. I'm guessing from the computer and the high level of speech, that you are not too bad off. I recon you went to a decent school and got a good education? Why are you complaining about this, no the system is not perfect and there are omissions but by God is it better that some! I'm no patriot, at all, but I don't complain. We get food, entertainment, a roof over our heads, education, SAFTEY, PROTECTION. We get these things that some can only dream of. Stop complaining about the man bringing you down, he isn't. They are trying their best, even if it isn't always efficient as it should be.
Think about how lucky you are and how safe you are. Think about all the good things that we have, and stop questioning the authority; it is here to help you. I know that sounds patriotic but let’s face it, this isn't a dictatorship where no one can step out of line in fear of death now is it?
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Wut? We've never attacked Iran, nor do we have bases there. Lol, where do you get your info from?
Sorry not IN it, AROUND it... And no, we never attacked Iran, we attacked Iraq.
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Ok, number one, The Anonymous is a bunch of really stupid people that claim police brutality on the spot. If a police officer tells you to move, you better move because its for a reason. This police brutality bullshit that the media has driven into your minds is completely idiotic and just proves yet again how little respect we give to those who protect our city streets.
Number two, the United States have attacked numerous countries for no good reason. So that means preserving democracy for all countries is not a good reason at all. The United States has something over 800 military bases in the world and we should not expect to be attacked for it? This is what I have to say to this, lol no. Bill Clinton, a president which is praised by our country for balancing the national budget, is a criminal and has much to do with 9/11 as Osama Bin Laden and Al Queda does. He did a 200 million dollar bombing on numerous Arab countries in 1999. The reason for the bombing is highly debatable, but the main reason that people saw it for was he was trying to gain some "fame" from the war republicans in Congress as this was around the same time he was on the edge of getting fired for his sexual affairs. Do you call that a good president? I don't. I don't think Osama Bin Laden is a great guy, but I do believe that the plane that went into the towers was partially justified as if we kill their children and innocent civilians they have the right to retaliate. The War on Terror is also entirely unsuccessful. The fact still remains that there was over 100k civilians killed. I believe the soldiers who fought in that war are highly courageous, not because they were aiming to kill a terrorist, but mainly they usually get the government out of a tight spot. The only reason why we are fighting the war on terror is because we started.
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I never saw this before in person, as I do not live in a city so I'm guessing that's why. I also even thought about moving to a different country, possibly Canada, in my opinion I think the US is going to get nuked sometime soon because we pissed off some many different countries and the US isn't like before. It kind of feels like were being ran by a dictator, if citizens are beaten like this for no reasons it's like they rule us.
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I never saw this before in person, as I do not live in a city so I'm guessing that's why. I also even thought about moving to a different country, possibly Canada, in my opinion I think the US is going to get nuked sometime soon because we pissed off some many different countries and the US isn't like before. It kind of feels like were being ran by a dictator, if citizens are beaten like this for no reasons it's like they rule us.
Its not for "No reason" half of those videos the people attacked the cops and the cops are defending them selves but every fucking time a cop does some thing in self defense its called brutality don't even think for a moment this is any were close to Libya or Russian's crack downs The worlds media will always be bias to a single party to get more views.
And another thing no one on this earth now is dumb enough to use a nuclear device ANYWHERE because people are worried that people will use it as a reason to hit people they don't like then you get world war three.
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I never saw this before in person, as I do not live in a city so I'm guessing that's why. I also even thought about moving to a different country, possibly Canada, in my opinion I think the US is going to get nuked sometime soon because we pissed off some many different countries and the US isn't like before. It kind of feels like were being ran by a dictator, if citizens are beaten like this for no reasons it's like they rule us.
Its not for "No reason" half of those videos the people attacked the cops and the cops are defending them selves but every fucking time a cop does some thing in self defense its called brutality don't even think for a moment this is any were close to Libya or Russian's crack downs The worlds media will always be bias to a single party to get more views.
And another thing no one on this earth now is dumb enough to use a nuclear device ANYWHERE because people are worried that people will use it as a reason to hit people they don't like then you get world war three.
The final video has some compelling evidence that proves your point otherwise.
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I never saw this before in person, as I do not live in a city so I'm guessing that's why. I also even thought about moving to a different country, possibly Canada, in my opinion I think the US is going to get nuked sometime soon because we pissed off some many different countries and the US isn't like before. It kind of feels like were being ran by a dictator, if citizens are beaten like this for no reasons it's like they rule us.
Its not for "No reason" half of those videos the people attacked the cops and the cops are defending them selves but every fucking time a cop does some thing in self defense its called brutality don't even think for a moment this is any were close to Libya or Russian's crack downs The worlds media will always be bias to a single party to get more views.
And another thing no one on this earth now is dumb enough to use a nuclear device ANYWHERE because people are worried that people will use it as a reason to hit people they don't like then you get world war three.
The final video has some compelling evidence that proves your point otherwise.
Obviously, in this case the police didn't handle the situation as best as they could have, but that dosen't mean we live in fear. If they hadn't of steped forward and protested in the first place then this wouldn't of happened to them. I'm not saying we should all stay silence but sometimes those who whisper are heard the loudest. You can protest in other ways, using the internet, using media, books, films even, music. To be frank going forward and shouting at the police, who don't make any of the decisions might I add, for change is not going to definivley get you change. The point is we can still say what we like, but there is a difference between saying what we want and screaming at them what we want in a mob. Mobs can turn violent quick, it just takes the wrong chain of events to happen. Thats why the police break up mobs, to try and douse the violence before it starts.
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Blaming the police for brutality all the time and saying that all cops are bad people is extremely flawed logic. The media gives the dishonest cops much more attention because it gives them a better story. Most cops really do try to protect the streets and help out the citizens, so there is almost no reason to be afraid of cops unless you're doing something illegal.
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I'll clear up some things about myself and what I am trying to get here.
The videos I presented is not me willing to directly attack the law enforcement, But rather, wanting us, as people to be aware that we're being limited in questioning the authority or standing up to what we believe in. What is right and what is wrong. What is free and what is tyranny. In short, we are losing our sense of what is right and wrong, and we are accepting filtered information.
The police are taught to do nothing but serve the higher up, do not see this video as me directly blaming or attacking the law enforcement, the videos I have placed in this thread is asking you guys to think and question about our system.
Referring to the post where someone claimed that "Anonymous is a bunch of really stupid people that claim police brutality on the spot." speaks as if Anonymous is a group. But one must understand that there are no official groups of anonymous, they are no one's friend, and they are you.
The majority who claim to be anonymous support freedom and knowledge.
It's about time we should stop looking at history and comparing it to modern day. It never justifies anything.
History gives evidence of a pattern we follow, we should only use history to prevent problems from reoccurring, history should not be used to boast who's mighty and who's noble. Since it creates prejudice and clouds your judgement on the issue we could face at this very moment.
I do not pledge my allegiance to one group or entity, keep that in mind. If anything, I pledge my allegiance to humanity and the natural laws we are bound to.
My questions and observations may seem unintelligible or just simply insane to many, especially if it seems to attack their way of life. However, when you think outside of the box, even if it's just a minute, look at it from both sides, looking at a bigger picture, and put your culture to one side.
You can truly be enlightened, your judgement will never be clouded, and you can find the truth inside the lies that you have witnessed.
I stand for freedom and happiness, not tyranny and fear.
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I concur with many points that have been made here. However it's pretty obvious that Americans generally do live in fear. Just compare yourself with Canada and you'll see what I mean.
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Well then Journeyman it’s a good thing you don't live in North Korea :l
You are free and you are probably quite happy. Also your talks of clouded judgement and what not our silly in its self when you obviously have a clouded judgement. The videos you have shown us our not good sources of information, they should not be used as way to change your views on humanity and all that bull shit.
The first video is an anonymous video. To start it is already bias seeing as how the creator is probably a "Freedom fighter" who thinks the American government is trying to take all teh freedom and make us all slaves to the man. Secondly the source its self it not useful for information. There are many omissions in the video such as all the clips are taken out of context, you don't know what is going on in the situation, for these reasons the source is flawed and bias.
The 2nd and 3rd videos are taken from Russian Television news team. A team that, odds are, are not too pro USA, I can only Imagine why. For that reason the writers are again going to be bias and leave out omissions of information. In one of the videos it is cut off and doesn’t show the situation fully. In the other they only do interviews with the protestors, they didn't do one with bystanders, police on scene or Government officials; not to mention there is no background on the events.
The 4th video may have just been a police mistake, as the ending of the video is cut off for all we know the police officer apologised and went on with the traffic stop, at the same time perhaps in certain states it is a felony to record the police while they talk to you for confidentiality reasons.
The 5th video shows how hypocritical you are. See now that is a society that lives in fear and under tyranny. Instead of complaining about how if you scream at police in a mob you might get hurt (well duh) why don't you complain about how innocent people in the Middle East our getting bombed? Some people are just selfish ey?
The 6th video shares the same points at the other ones, lots of omissions, no talking to the police, spun off in a negative light of the police.
To sum up, these videos are not reliable sources, and also you are directly attacking the goverment. "Share your thoughts, but more importantly, question the authority" - you ask us to question the authority that in its self is bias, before you even give us a chance to share our thoughts you are already telling us what to think.
If you stand for happiness and freedom then go do something about it. Instead of having a hissy fit about your almost perfect life (trust me it is) go out there to foreign countries and help people with your bare hands, go make a difference. Don't want to? If not then stop complaining about the "broken system" and keep quiet, because you aren't doing anything to help. I’m sure I have left some things but I will say them later.
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^ Another brilliantly well said thing of yours, Panda.
There are dynasties in Africa that live a worse life then you, Journeyman. You do not know the definition of living in fear. "Living in fear" Is when you know, that one day, men will come to your house in the middle of the night, take you away, and you'll never be seen again. "Living in fear" Is knowing that you cannot post shit like this. Because you'd be kidnapped/killed for it.
Stop listening to NPR and wake up. We live like Gods compared to most countries.
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Well then Journeyman it’s a good thing you don't live in North Korea :l
You are free and you are probably quite happy. Also your talks of clouded judgement and what not our silly in its self when you obviously have a clouded judgement. The videos you have shown us our not good sources of information, they should not be used as way to change your views on humanity and all that bull shit.
The first video is an anonymous video. To start it is already bias seeing as how the creator is probably a "Freedom fighter" who thinks the American government is trying to take all teh freedom and make us all slaves to the man. Secondly the source its self it not useful for information. There are many omissions in the video such as all the clips are taken out of context, you don't know what is going on in the situation, for these reasons the source is flawed and bias.
The 2nd and 3rd videos are taken from Russian Television news team. A team that, odds are, are not too pro USA, I can only Imagine why. For that reason the writers are again going to be bias and leave out omissions of information. In one of the videos it is cut off and doesn’t show the situation fully. In the other they only do interviews with the protestors, they didn't do one with bystanders, police on scene or Government officials; not to mention there is no background on the events.
The 4th video may have just been a police mistake, as the ending of the video is cut off for all we know the police officer apologised and went on with the traffic stop, at the same time perhaps in certain states it is a felony to record the police while they talk to you for confidentiality reasons.
The 5th video shows how hypocritical you are. See now that is a society that lives in fear and under tyranny. Instead of complaining about how if you scream at police in a mob you might get hurt (well duh) why don't you complain about how innocent people in the Middle East our getting bombed? Some people are just selfish ey?
The 6th video shares the same points at the other ones, lots of omissions, no talking to the police, spun off in a negative light of the police.
To sum up, these videos are not reliable sources, and also you are directly attacking the goverment. "Share your thoughts, but more importantly, question the authority" - you ask us to question the authority that in its self is bias, before you even give us a chance to share our thoughts you are already telling us what to think.
If you stand for happiness and freedom then go do something about it. Instead of having a hissy fit about your almost perfect life (trust me it is) go out there to foreign countries and help people with your bare hands, go make a difference. Don't want to? If not then stop complaining about the "broken system" and keep quiet, because you aren't doing anything to help. I’m sure I have left some things but I will say them later.
Nailed it on the head a million miles away.
Haydn I don't know what the fuck is with you you've changed since I first met you on PEs GMR you're acting more like a jackass than any one here you think that WE live in a police state here in America?
How about no? There are a lot of cops scared by law suites and bullshit like this that they quit or get hurt because they are too afraid to react with what they think is needed.
Being a cop you have to deal with bullshit like this every fucking day people who don't know what they have to put up with or don't even try to understand but blame the 99% for shit the 1% does, that's like saying that every one in America donates to the poor for tax write offs instead of it being the right thing to do.
Haydn if we live in a police state then how could you post this? You don't live in fear of people coming to your house and taking you away?
You don't fear that saying the wrong thing to a cop will get you shot? Before you post this crap(Which is most likely some 10 year old in his basement thinking hes cool) try to get BOTH sides of the story THEN judge.
You're as bad as those people who claim to be living in the ghetto when in fact they're living in a high class area and their parents make well over 100K a year.
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^^^ That
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6imIxpEWCA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMiqEUBux3o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3A7Px8sIPY
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Let's see. How should I answer these supposed "Well done you sure told Journeyman", even though I see no evidence backing it up. Well, apart from Renegade showing videos of Osama being killed and the WTC, which to be honest, shows that we use war to deal with the differences, and that bombing the country back is the right thing, somehow I find that it ruins more lives than it does fixing it.
Panda:
I read and listen from all sources of info. My local media, the more independent media, and the U.S. media (Whilst it's not shown on television, I see some people sharing the story). How can looking at both sides, whilst gathering information and making a conclusion is clouded?
I identify the problem we face. I then find patterns that have been repeated before. I then look at the two sides. I then make my conclusion.
This thread, so far is me questioning the authority, if it seems to hurt you so badly, you are free to leave, because by the posts you are making, it seems that you're clearly agitated by it, for whatever reason, I will be fair and not make wild assumptions such as you, making wild claims that I am having a "Hissy fit", when it's just a simple observation.
You seem to have not read or have forgotten what I am trying to say, I am not making a direct attack I highlight problems, and draw a conclusion, does it hurt? Seems to be that it hurts you where it counts.
I am actually working into trying to make the world a better place. Starting by efficient standards of living, such as better quality housing using modern, sustainable methods, that will take time, but I am hoping to achieve that, but that is only a small part of a wide puzzle we have, I want people to have a secure future children and elderly, they should not be ruled by companies.
This, what I am doing is asking questions and making observations.
But of course, your response may be "Wow, big deal, hardly anything!". One man can do what he is limited to. But I definitely do not have a self centered goal. My goal is hoping to secure everyone's life for a better future.
Just an FYI, I am studying in Civil Engineering, and I am hoping to make the best of it.
Renegade:
So far, I seen your posts throughout the forum, shows you have nothing else of interest but war. I don't know what makes you think that war is the right thing to solve our differences. I have nothing else to say but all I can do, is question your behaviour on how you solve differences in real life. With your outrageous lies of claiming of being in the army and so on, makes me wonder about you.
Juggernaut:
"Haydn I don't know what the fuck is with you you've changed since I first met you on PEs GMR" You seem to repeat that line a lot, running out of ways to reason or talk? You have not spoken to me at all.
(Oh, don't forget the amount of times you got proven wrong by people in Orange Cosmos and have done nothing but heighten aggravation to everyone, whilst it is somewhat irrelevant in CG but you seem to be bringing up the past, so I will too.)
A police state in America? Sometimes I wonder, but where I currently stand, I believe that we are in a police state.
I also seem to make you very angry about my views, you're agitated because I question and make observations and spread my thoughts?
Now, you all seem to be mistaken about what I am saying, it does not matter where you live, it seems to be, everywhere, tyranny and fear lurks somewhere.
Now, we understand clearly that countries such as Africa and the middle east are definitely not humane when it comes to solving problems with the people. But I guarantee you, our world is hardly any different when it comes to patting down the people who speak out.
At the end of the day, no one is right. But it surely does not hurt to make observations or to share views, especially if it's backed by evidence they present.
So the question remains to you three;
Are you hurt by the threads I made? If so, leave.
Are you just here to prove me wrong or to help? If so, post, and if you can provide me evidence. Share your views, don't concentrate on the negatives I am saying.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7Yrw7QNx1U
Skip to 0:56
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Well to be fair Journeyman I have to be negative and I will point out why in a second. First to answer your questions:
1. Am I hurt? No, I am not emotionally hurt about your comments, I simply disagree with you.
2. Perhaps I am here to prove you wrong? But I shouldn’t need to use evidence to prove this, I was simply saying before that the evidence you put forward was insufficient, perhaps you have other sources but how was I supposed to know this?
So moving on I'm going to counter some of your arguments. I still think you have a clouded judgement for the sense that you believe America is a police state, but I will move onto that soon. When you talk about your sources do you mean general media? If so then you are definitely getting the wrong sources. What you should be doing if you wanted to come to a clear cut conclusion is do some hardcore research. Go to the library and look at stats on Police brutality reports, see how many complaints were filed against certain officers and in what states. Go down to your local station and ask to view how many arrests were made and of those arrests how many times were 1. Violence used and 2. People hurt severely because of said violence etc.
Moving down to your points for Jugg when you say that you think America is a police state. Want evidence that it’s not? Well for one this post is still up? In a police state like North Korea this post, hell this whole forum would have been taken down by now. We are not living in a police state here in the west; protest does happen and does get allowed. Recently public sector workers in London have all gone on strike and protested around their workplaces in large numbers. Were they beaten and attacked? No, because they weren't using mob violence, they are protesting but in a way that isn't forceful against others. This overall is the point I was trying to make before.
I guess that just about sums up my response to your arguments, I am not trying to attack you here, but when I put forward my arguments you seem to act quickly to dismiss them entirely, you act out against it and deny it at every turn. Yes police violence has been used before; the troubles in Northern Ireland are an example perhaps, and I am sure there are many others. But that does not mean we live in a feared police state under tyranny. Hopefully your response will be less in denial and as your said, fairer, and looking at both sides of the arguments.
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Haydn the reason why I seem angry is the fact that your "Proof" is as bias as statistics.
You don't seem to get that most of the police in America(And possibly the UK) all fear getting sued for pointless shit.
Haydn the closest Nation to a police state that ISN'T part of the former USSR is England due to the fact that if any of your cops are carrying a weapon its a fully automatic and you have armed servicemen all around London, but even then that's not a police state in America you can protest all you damn well please as long as its safe to remain there(Hence the Occupy guys being moved from that park) but the moment you attack a officer you're gonna get whats coming to you. And while most of what they are doing seems cruel remember that cops are trained to subdue some one with little to no pain just most are cry babies or are resisting in a way that'll get them selves hurt by either the hold or the officer ACTING in self defense.
You seem to be getting "the 99%" Mixed with "the 1%" of the officers who do wrong or just following horrible orders, and I don't see American police getting orders to gun down any protesters with lethal ammo or hell even rubber unless they are violent to begin with, there are millions of officers in America and the UK(Maybe not as high there) but remember by the people threatening to sue on a daily whim it keeps the officers in check and allows the bad cops to be pointed out.
The proof that you've given is bias and cannot be used due to that reason so your argument is there for invalid.
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^ Yes.
In China, a police state, like in Teiniman square, if you protest, they will fucking run you over with TANKS.
That does not happen here, you have no reason to fear the government.
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All I'm gonna say, I'm not safe or free from fear, because there is fear all around us.
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Panda
What you need to understand is I am not directly attacking the police force, I am asking a question, does a question hurt?
Because you seem to act like I am out here to cause problems. You seem to think that I am directly attacking one nation, and therefore making a conclusion that I "Don't know about third world countries", I do, however there is no need to mention it, it's been slapped in our face constantly by the media, schools, and your friends, why should I ramble on about them?
I am far more interested in our country, and how we can improve society. It has to start somewhere, I can see that there are reasons why the problem happens and more importantly, give an idea on how to improve our world. I have not declared the United States or the United Kingdom being a police state, but I do feel that it's heading this way, whilst I have no direct evidence of it happening, so I base it under my observation.
I aim to make people ask questions more and look at every source you can stumble across.
Juggernaut
Juggernaut, if my videos that I have given to you is biased or wrong. Then you have to give me evidence to claim otherwise. You've yet to prove me wrong. But then again, I am not saying I am right and the evidence is right. But you perceive that what I am saying is right and therefore have to act upon it by claiming I am biased. Of course my words are biased, it's how I view it.
You just declared my argument invalid, yet you've given me no evidence or source of information that argues against what I am saying.
You've also misread the entire thing, I am not aiming to attack the law enforcement, I am aiming for you all to question.
Once again, if you want to say that my "Argument is invalid" please do so.
But at your own risk, of course, seeing as you've provided me with no evidence and note that I am not claiming that I am right, also on top of that I claim that I am not on one side in particular.
It's a simple discussion. Oh, don't forget that I look at the mainstream media as well, though it is mainly on paper, even though I can't post that, seeing as they hush up about those problems or that I can't find it on the website.
Renegade
Can you provide me proof of that story? Even though I wouldn't be surprised that they would do that, but I have not heard of it happening.
EDIT: Oh wait, you mean this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-nXT8lSnPQ
Yeah, the man sure did get flattened by the tank.
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Journeyman you might not be now but you did before, in your previous point you say that America is a police state (so in some senses you were attacking it) and now you are saying it isn't, which is good, but you were attacking it when I wrote what I said.
Moving on I really don't like the fact that you think "perfecting" your own country comes before helping other countries get up too our standards. Let me use this as an example: you own a series of farms across the land. A small portion of these farms are running at high standards and are producing good produce, but they still have flaws. The rest of your farms are of a far worse standard and are producing poorly. Now would you spend what money you have on perfecting the farms that are already good or would you try to bring the others up too standard? It would be the 2nd because otherwise you would just start to dwindle and your farm business would fail. In the same sense if we don't put other countries before us who is too say that with time it will get to an irreversible stage where the people can no longer survive? It's an extreme but even so...
People talk about 3rd world countries so much because they need help. You seem to be worried about the police being a little harsh against people who step out of line, but that’s their job, to stop troublemakers. In previous ones you have talked of ideological societies where everyone pull together, if people act bad then they will end up getting punished. That’s there for a reason. If you decide to say no more punishments, let people make mob riots etc etc, then we slowly fall into anarchy. I would rather have what we have now than anarchy.
Also you say here that you haven't declared America a police state but in your previous post you said "I believe that we are in a police state." I don't mind you changing your opinion but saying that you never said something for the benefit of your own argument is not on.
To finish off you are trying to make us question the system. If you don't think you are I quote "I am to make people ask questions". Ok sure we should be asking questions perhaps but here is what you have done. You have show videos of only bad things that the police have done from poor sources; you have not given any other side to the story and are only portraying the police as bad. Now some people might not have an opinion on the police, but then you start showing them bias evidence that they are bad without them seeing the other side and you begin to unfairly change their opinions. If you want to persuade people make sure you understand both arguments and they understand both arguments, otherwise all your points become lies with time. This is my complaint: you are trying to warp our opinions unfairly by portraying our police as only bad.
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Oh hey, Journeyman, instead of getting all your info from Anonymous and NPR, goto a respectable website
""The protests of 1989 resulted in the massacre of Chinese protesters in the streets to the west of the square and adjacent areas. There are reports where soldiers opened fire on protesters, killing 400–800, and perhaps many more.[1][2] Eyewitness accounts of the events on the night of June 3 and the early morning of June 4, 1989 continue to emerge from former student leaders and intellectuals, broadening the scope of the original reporting of the massacre by Western media outlets. This was the scene for the iconic image of Tank Man, where a column of PLA tanks was stopped in its tracks by a protester. No one knows if the man in the image is still alive.[6] Further reports show that the theatre of the massacre spanned across Beijing, and was densely concentrated on Chang'an Avenue, literally the "Eternal Peace Street," or the main approach to Tiananmen gate where citizens returned to locate missing protesters driven from the square hours before. Video footage shows the military repeatedly opening fire here on unarmed citizens and medical personnel advancing toward Tiananmen Square to locate the missing and assist the wounded.[7]"
- Wikipedia
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Panda
I'd like it if you find a quote of me saying that. I'd like to reword it so it does not seem like I am directly going after 1 group. Since it's not my purpose, if it was, I wouldn't even bother posting here. Since I would most likely be forum banned for being a troll.
Also, there is no such thing as perfecting. It's as only good as you can get it. However we can do a far lot more in solving the problems we face today.
Also, we can help other countries, but the system we have disallows that help to happen (The money thread I mentioned, should mention that the use of technology can solve most of our problems such as poverty.).
But we can definitely solve our issues outside our country if we sort out ours, and many countries will follow through. However using war as a means to solve our differences is primitive to say the least, wars are a result from pointing fingers at one another or scarcity.
The fact is, we live in fear, but the thing is, we compare ourselves to the other countries, so we claim our government is "Ok" simply because we compare it to less developed countries, that's why we don't think further into it.
Fear is given to us through many forms, such as claiming countries harbour 'terrorists', or 'ruled by dictators and tyrants', it puts us into fear for other countries.
Now I can't go into details too much, since that does derail the point of the thread; Are we living in fear?
If we live in fear, then prejudice and hatred will manifest.
Renegade
Just a note to you, I don't just look at videos made by Anonymous and the NPR, I usually read and sometimes watch the mainstream media, which I've stated before, so it's not very nice making claims like that.
I don't see why you need to quote from Wikipedia, as I am already aware that these crimes happened, but it is somewhat irrelevant because I am talking about our country we live in. (Europe, definitely had it's bad shares, too! But their policing is usually more professional, but incidents still occur none the less.)
But this still means that our method of controlling people using non lethal weapons is still inhumane and can be considered as torture, seeing as the pain does last a long time.
We should not use weaponry that does cause so much harm. Those "non-lethal" weaponry can still kill you. If it does not, you'd be in hospital with a broken bone in your body, and you'd be under extreme agony.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lbbWAgBy7E
Having your skull fractured by a non-lethal weaponry is immensely painful and can potentially kill you.
Any weapon used to incapacitate people or to "control" the protesters does nothing. It causes immense amount of pain, probably more than what a bullet does. Some cases non-lethal weaponry is useful, but using it in situations such as protests do nothing but increase violence and aggravation.
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Hmm, I agree with your first points, but I still don't think we live in a society of fear; perhaps our ideas of fear are slightly different. When you say fear what do you mean? To me fear in society suggests that the average man and worker is scared to go out in the morning, but I really don't think that the majority leave their house in the morning thinking something life endangering cause by the police is going to happen, but that’s just my opinion - I'm sure your idea of fear is different from mine.
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I think Journeyman, is that you are thinking of a concept of called the common pyscho(sociopath)path.
Let's start with this video for example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMG1qjpzNPg
These pyschopaths (from the elite of course) use lies to kill people, just look at stalin and how he is a professional Political Pyschopath and uses lies to get what he wants, and the ultimate pyschopaths that are the rothschild or the rockefellers fund the political pyschopaths, they are more common than they appear.
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Cookies
This video is simply excellent, this does describe how our world runs.
The thing is though the thread is asking if people are living in fear, asking yourself and the people around you.
However psychopaths (aiming mainly towards people who use manipulation) exists simply because of how the system is made, the system that is running right now allows psychopaths to exist and find ways to confuse, scare, or justify their actions using lies and manipulation and so forth, I should use the term what's said in the video "Cerebral Psychopaths". I can't go far too much into detail though.
Panda
People in fear, I mean people who speak out against the way the system works.
So, people who supports their country and/or the system won't need to fear much, apart from the fear they implement to them, for instance, when the media speaks of a "terrorist bombing", they would normally assume it's an "Islamic terrorist" or someone from Al-Qaeda,
Or if people think of countries like China, they'll go "It's a communist country, they don't get any freedom or democracy, our system promotes freedom of speech and allows us to vote", so if anyone mentions that communism could be a way to improve society, it would be shot down, because people would fear any potential tyranny, such as Stalin or Mao.
But people who do speak out, would be in fear of social rejection, and could face abuse or unfair labelling. For instance, the media and well known members of the public label the occupy protesters "Teenage college drop out students", "Hippies", "Communists", or whatever powerful words they can do to unfairly label the individuals.
Normally when the label is made on the protesters, the people who support their country would blindly support the government and would say that it is justifiable to get armed police to fire upon the people who are protesting (Or an unlucky bystander).
I avoid comparing one country, to the other just to say that our system is good, because I do feel that there are far, far better ways of improving it, but the system that is used allows tyrants to use lies and manipulation to control people and make them fear each other.
I hate typing out such a long message to pinpoint exactly what I am trying to say, but yeah, takes a while to condense it down into a readable size.
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Are we safe from fear? It is impossible to be safe from fear. However, I do not fear law enforcement, I respect them. I fear an ICMB falling from the sky, however. And I fear a mass conflict in the Middle East.
Those are sound fears, but fearing the police, based on some faulty sources which are most likely edited to support the creator's opinion. (Yes, Anonymous is not a valid source, neither is Russia Today.) We did not know what happened prior to the roughness in the video.
'If I was a cop, and some punk punched me, I'd beat the shit out of him. They protect those shit stains, then they resist and break the laws? I'd be pissed too.
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Do you ever wonder why the conflict happens in the middle east? People from the middle east don't just decide to be terrorists. No. Terrorism was at it's height because our government decided to be imperialistic decided to tell them what to do and how to live. Whilst we know that isn't the case, it's all about the oil. If we really went after dictators and evil people, then I wonder how people like Mugabe is still allowed to run the country.
Can you prove to me how the sources I prevent are 'faulty'? I'd want you to give me the real reason why they are not valid as well. Don't go "Because I don't see it on television". I find that independent media sources are far more reliable than mainstream, however I never say that the mainstream media is not valid, but we both definitely know that the mainstream media filters out information that we should know.
Your last sentence just made me go "Lol what are you on about?"
The police are just as liable of causing violence, it's already proven since they show an aggressive posture (Holding weapons, holding shields and batons), that shows signs of aggression.
Not once have I heard in both mainstream media or independent media say that protesters used weapons. Not once did I hear.
SURE, I heard protesters becoming violent, but it obviously proves that the protesters did not cause violence from the start, as they have no weapons therefore they shown no tendency to be violent in the first place.
Also, no media is false. There is always the truth. Especially when there's pictures and videos involved.
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Well then Journeyman it’s a good thing you don't live in North Korea :l
You are free and you are probably quite happy. Also your talks of clouded judgement and what not our silly in its self when you obviously have a clouded judgement. The videos you have shown us our not good sources of information, they should not be used as way to change your views on humanity and all that bull shit.
The first video is an anonymous video. To start it is already bias seeing as how the creator is probably a "Freedom fighter" who thinks the American government is trying to take all teh freedom and make us all slaves to the man. Secondly the source its self it not useful for information. There are many omissions in the video such as all the clips are taken out of context, you don't know what is going on in the situation, for these reasons the source is flawed and bias.
The 2nd and 3rd videos are taken from Russian Television news team. A team that, odds are, are not too pro USA, I can only Imagine why. For that reason the writers are again going to be bias and leave out omissions of information. In one of the videos it is cut off and doesn’t show the situation fully. In the other they only do interviews with the protestors, they didn't do one with bystanders, police on scene or Government officials; not to mention there is no background on the events.
The 4th video may have just been a police mistake, as the ending of the video is cut off for all we know the police officer apologised and went on with the traffic stop, at the same time perhaps in certain states it is a felony to record the police while they talk to you for confidentiality reasons.
The 5th video shows how hypocritical you are. See now that is a society that lives in fear and under tyranny. Instead of complaining about how if you scream at police in a mob you might get hurt (well duh) why don't you complain about how innocent people in the Middle East our getting bombed? Some people are just selfish ey?
The 6th video shares the same points at the other ones, lots of omissions, no talking to the police, spun off in a negative light of the police.
To sum up, these videos are not reliable sources, and also you are directly attacking the goverment. "Share your thoughts, but more importantly, question the authority" - you ask us to question the authority that in its self is bias, before you even give us a chance to share our thoughts you are already telling us what to think.
If you stand for happiness and freedom then go do something about it. Instead of having a hissy fit about your almost perfect life (trust me it is) go out there to foreign countries and help people with your bare hands, go make a difference. Don't want to? If not then stop complaining about the "broken system" and keep quiet, because you aren't doing anything to help. I’m sure I have left some things but I will say them later.
Pretty much already said why those videos were not good sources :P
Moving on I have decided to finnaly respond to your point earlier. The thing is when you said do we live in fear I stopped and thought to my self: Do I live in fear? No. Do my friends live in fear? No. Do my parents live in fear? No. Do people around me in my life generally live in fear? No.
I mean what you are saying is that the people who protest live in fear, fear of what? Of being given a minor injury for mob protest and mob violence? Well thats a given surely that there is going to be some police retaliation! That dosen't mean we all live in fear because they do, which is not what you said. Specifilcy you said "Are you truly sae and free from fear?" My answer and a lot of peoples answers will be yes, we are.
Fair enough about not comparing to countries but still, none the less we do not live in fear as a whole community. What we should be more worried about is how our countries are treating other people and other worldly issues etc etc. And to get change you don't have to use mob protest, you can protest as a single person in very clever and subtle ways.
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Ok, number one, The Anonymous is a bunch of really stupid people that claim police brutality on the spot. If a police officer tells you to move, you better move because its for a reason. This police brutality bullshit that the media has driven into your minds is completely idiotic and just proves yet again how little respect we give to those who protect our city streets.
It matter what happened. In the first one in the first video, that was self defense. In the second one, he shot that guy for no reason. When they say poliece brutality, they mean when a cop runs over to you and punches you before trying to make an arrest when you haven't done a thing. Hell, my dads a cop and just say that video, and he agrees that those people are doing police brutality.
Example of self defense:
Officer goes to arrest a man.
Man punches officer
Officer tackles him and punches him, and handcuffs him.
GOOD! :D
Example of Brutality:
Man is walking down the street. (Lets say he is black, because I see cops that do this)
Officer asks the man where he is going.
Man says "to the bus" and keeps walking
Officer yells "I want to talk to you"
Man keeps walking (You don't have to keep talking)
Officer runs over and tackles him and punches him, and arrests him
BAD! >:(
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Panda
The problem is that people too obsessed that because it's either RT or from collective conciousness groups (i.e. Anonymous), too interested in it looking like an "anti-" group, I am far more interested in the content than who made it.
Also, what you need to also understand, is that there are a lot groups who claim to be anonymous.
Currently the hot topic that a lot of the anon groups are interested in is the current system and how it's failing, and they're wanting people to rethink how the system goes and understand it's failures, I doubt they became anti-capitalist about it because they felt like it, because what we're talking about is a group of thousands of people from each part of the world, contributing their point of view and they all have 1 thing in common and that's the understanding of the system and how it's failing.
Now I could say the mainstream media is false, because it simply distracts people, exaggerates their story and filters out vital information that we need to know, this leaves people being dumbfounded and would ignore about it.
A lot of the news I see is always about celebrities, sports, and our constant "We have an economic growth/fall!" bullshit.
Rarely do I see news relating to things such as protests, and if they are, all it results in, is people making poor, uneducated opinions and resort to mislabelling the people involved.
Once again, I view both mainstream and independent media, and I find that the mainstream media pours out a lot of filtered garbage, rarely do I find any good ones (Russia Today is alright, not that good, but still much better than the ones I watch on TV or see in the news papers.)
But then again, I don't call any media false. Seeing as I would rather look at things at both angles and the content inside it, I am not interested, in the slightest on who made it. If it gives valued information, then they get my interest. I always make sure I look at the content and not the brand.
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Hmm I think also our source of media is very different as well. In the UK we still have some very false news sources that I wouldn't bother listening too. For example we have the Sun and more importantly the Daily Mail, newspapers which are quite frankly racist, bias against anything that isn't "a white Englishman" etc etc.
We also have sky news which is ruled over by Rupert Murdoch and generally supports anything that supports him, is fairly bias and again not that great. But we do have quite a few news sources that are very fair towards different opinions. BBC news being one of them, they don't have any political sidings and they often play devil’s advocate to get as many sides to the stories as they can and in recent times when there has been protest they have gone over to the protest groups and talked to them in a peaceful way and tried to understand what they are protesting about, giving you clear information and not slandering them in anyway.
There are newspapers as well, like the Guardian which too doesn't stick to one side and does the same sort of things as BBC news. Obviously there are still lots of bias news sources but as long as you are not too dim-witted it is easy to spot a non-biased source. From the sounds of it in America you make it sound like you only have bias sources, unfortunately I wouldn't know. The only news sources I know of from the states is fox and the local news. Is every source in your country so bias that you have to rely on the anonymous etc?
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Panda
You legitimately believe that I rely on 1 source of media, or media that is somehow "Anti-american" or "Anti-western" media. I am pretty sure that I mentioned (Constantly now) that I look at all forms of media, and I am far more interested in the contents of the video and not who made it.
Also, name dropping or labelling individuals / groups by someone who is considered a "Politician" or "Expert" of related fields that are discussing issues within the media does not make me believe that they are very honest or dealing with the problems, but like to name drop just so they get public support. That is not credible news or information.
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No I don't? I was simply saying that by the way you were speaking you seemed to portray that all major news teams were bias and pro-American all the way and so you don't "listen" to them as much so to say. But you still have too look at the bad sources sometimes and from the sounds of it you do that too.
Anyway, I think we are starting to just go in circles with an endless argument, I have put forward my opinion on the matter of fear within our society and you have put forward yours. We obvioulsy have some views on the matter that are clash with eachother but we have found some common ground as well; still the point stands that we are going in circles.